Major Update Speculation V35 - A Distinctive Lack of Communication - Games

The best way to get competitive players out of casual is make the actual competitive mode intended for them not a complete joke.

Nothing makes me madder than seeing people who should be in a PUG or comp in fucking casual. Such obvious pubstomping is fucking infuriating. And it's not even like I [I]lose[/I] to these people, it's just frustrating to watch them both waste their skill [B]and[/B] ruin the game for the inexperienced.

[QUOTE=DOCTOR LIGHT;51609631]Nothing makes me madder than seeing people who should be in a PUG or comp in fucking casual. Such obvious pubstomping is fucking infuriating. And it's not even like I [I]lose[/I] to these people, it's just frustrating to watch them both waste their skill [B]and[/B] ruin the game for the inexperienced.[/QUOTE] To be fair, it doesn't really take much effort to pub stomp majority of the time. I tend to half ass myself most of the time and still manage to do reasonably good, if not top score out right. I find competitive tends to be a tad bit more stressful as well. If I want to try out something or experiment on a new tactic, I have to take into consideration that if it falls flat I could potentially screw over my team in the process. Not to mention I have yet to bother looking for friends to regularly play competitive for, cause there's no way I want to just stick to randoms full time that's for sure. Do matches with abandoners still abruptly end with them dismissing winners and losers as well? If so, that's another reason why I'd rather not partake in it. I remember that being a huge turn off from competitive matchmaking the last several times I participated in it.

why couldn't it be balanced around stats, like KDR, healing and such? It's still bad but still much better than just experience

I thought the system was that there was a "hidden" MMR that is unrelated to your experience, that it uses to place you with other players? This is how it works in other, ahem, "unranked" gamemodes, like Dota 2 and Overwatch.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;51607163]maybe they can finally fix darwin shield after 4 years![/QUOTE] Not my baby!

[QUOTE=Jetamo;51609948]I thought the system was that there was a "hidden" MMR that is unrelated to your experience, that it uses to place you with other players? This is how it works in other, ahem, "unranked" gamemodes, like Dota 2 and Overwatch.[/QUOTE] That... wouldn't really work in TF2. I dont know how it works with Dota, but OW's MMR is based on the amount of matches played and won/lost - and since several gamemodes favor a certain side a lot more than the other, and that we have 12 player matches instead of 6, I can't see it properly reflecting the skill. The only good aspect of it is that new players will fight against new players, since all of their MMRs would be 0 - but that's the same system we "apparently" have now with the ranks. They just need to make the rank stuff stricter, there shouldnt be a single high level player in a game full of level 1ers.

Tough break cases are still dropping lol

[QUOTE=haggarman;51610327]Tough break cases are still dropping lol[/QUOTE] won't stop till somebody makes them aware of their goof

Take it as a Drinking game, if you get a tough break case or somebody else gets one, take a shot

[QUOTE=haggarman;51610327]Tough break cases are still dropping lol[/QUOTE] I thought they'd stop when the next major update hits. I still believe that. After all, we've been more than a year now without one.

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;51606395]"This is not about dumbing the game down either", I'm sorry. Did you not see where they took the Phlog, which was the worst flamethrower in the game since release, and decided "all the casual players are complaining about it, I guess we should make it [B]even worse by nerfing[/B] it some more". This is the very definition of dumbing the game down around casual players. How is it ever a smart move to balance around bad or incorrect information? I still constantly see complaints about "W+M1 Pyro's are OP", "Gunslinger is OP!" and what not on a regular basis. You'd have to be a moron to take any of those people even remotely seriously. Sadly, we live in a day and age where people would rather be catered and babied too then stand up on their own. It's inevitable that a little pushing is required from what I've seen, even though it should be a natural desire to want to get better at things you enjoy.[/QUOTE] When Toughbreak came out I raged about the phlog even though it wasn't overpowered, but because of what it did to a lot of pubs. It funneled more players into playing pyro which then and now is a dead end class in terms of higher level play. That is when I saw the most pyros at once in the game consistently. Not only that, but it promoted the least skilled flamethrower of pyro which further makes them useless against better players because airblast as it stands is so much better and provides some defense for the pyro. In pubs with the free crits it performed better than the other flamethrowers a lot of the time there. It is discouraging to players trying to get better when their team feeding allows the enemy pyro to consistently have an instakill cone despite their ability of fighting the pyro. Pyro as it stands is a utility class and in any level of play it shouldn't be picked by 4 out of 12 players and nerfing the phlog made that less common, but still happens as before Toughbreak. In pubs where both teams have a lot of generalists seem to be the best games.

[QUOTE=gav618;51610710]When Toughbreak came out I raged about the phlog even though it wasn't overpowered, but because of what it did to a lot of pubs..[/QUOTE] I agree that fighting against spammed classes or playing with spammed classes are just plain annoying. Like fighting against 5 heavies on the payload or 5 useless spies on defence, it's just not a good time. Unfortunately with any buffs given to weapons you expect for a good few weeks to a month people will play with the weapon and there will be 3 - 5 of said class either side. I experienced god knows how many matches of spies using DR and the new Big Earner after their rebalance, and honestly was a major pain in the ass. Not that the weapons are OP, but when you have one or two idiots on your team that feed them the speed boost, it ends up having a good chunk of your team dead to a scout speed spy. I usually go play on some community servers for a week or so to play around with whatever is new, let official servers cool off from the rebalancing hype so you can have the usual matches again when you return to them.

[QUOTE=Drury;51609486]The best way to get competitive players out of casual is make the actual competitive mode intended for them not a complete joke.[/QUOTE] Should have a ladder/division system (ala LoL) that you can actually see, so you know for sure "I am the top 5%" Right now everyone just gets the top level coin for free if they play enough.

[QUOTE=DOCTOR LIGHT;51609631]Nothing makes me madder than seeing people who should be in a PUG or comp in fucking casual. Such obvious pubstomping is fucking infuriating. And it's not even like I [I]lose[/I] to these people, it's just frustrating to watch them both waste their skill [B]and[/B] ruin the game for the inexperienced.[/QUOTE] Speaking as one of such I have to admit it's just oddly fun. Mowing everything in your way down and carrying is just fun. I don't know why. Superiority complex perhaps?

I'm not sure if anyone saw this, but [URL="http://store.steampowered.com/sale/2016_top_sellers/"]Valve put out a list of the top grossing games on Steam by revenue for 2016[/URL] and TF2 is in 19th place. DOTA2 is in 9th place and CSGO in 12th place.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;51612005]I'm not sure if anyone saw this, but [URL="http://store.steampowered.com/sale/2016_top_sellers/"]Valve put out a list of the top grossing games on Steam by revenue for 2016[/URL] and TF2 is in 19th place. DOTA2 is in 9th place and CSGO in 12th place.[/QUOTE] how do you know what place, because csgo looks like its 1st to me

The placement appears to be random outside of what tier each game is categorized in.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;51612066]The placement appears to be random outside of what tier each game is categorized in.[/QUOTE] Your right, I loaded it in a different browser and the placement was different. I honestly hate it when Valve does that, especially when it's a sale with a bunch of games and the placement changes every time I reload the page. Just leave everything in the same order Valve, even if the order is random for each individual person. Still TF2 made a lot of revenue for Valve.

[QUOTE=gav618;51610710]When Toughbreak came out I raged about the phlog even though it wasn't overpowered, but because of what it did to a lot of pubs. It funneled more players into playing pyro which then and now is a dead end class in terms of higher level play. That is when I saw the most pyros at once in the game consistently. Not only that, but it promoted the least skilled flamethrower of pyro which further makes them useless against better players because airblast as it stands is so much better and provides some defense for the pyro. In pubs with the free crits it performed better than the other flamethrowers a lot of the time there. It is discouraging to players trying to get better when their team feeding allows the enemy pyro to consistently have an instakill cone despite their ability of fighting the pyro. Pyro as it stands is a utility class and in any level of play it shouldn't be picked by 4 out of 12 players and nerfing the phlog made that less common, but still happens as before Toughbreak. In pubs where both teams have a lot of generalists seem to be the best games.[/QUOTE] the phlog wasn't inherently flawled as a weapon or even as a mechanic. it was a high risk/high reward type of weapon in wich you sacrifice all your defensive capabilities for an all out offensive boost, and it works on paper and probably did not felt overpowered when tested because getting in and surviving long enough as the close range class while being exposed to everyone else having projectiles and splash damage to fend you off was pretty much how pyro worked back in 2007. getting the boost required timming and proper user, because just slapping it out in front of anyone usually resulted in you getting killed right away, even with the 90% res it gave, those 2-3 seconds were enough to bring your health down to 50% or more if focused by other players. and as someone mentioned above getting killed by phlogs was either your own damn fault if you saw the dude and did not run away or she hid well enough to caugh you off guard-you know, as how an ambush usually works. the inherent and biggest flaw (and what ultimately doomed it with a low skill ceiling weapon) was not the weapon itself, but how you earned its benefits: in a world were flares exist, no pyro would ever risk its own skin face to face when it could pop a flare from across the room and get 1/4 of its metter easily. thats where the "high risk" part of the weapon was completely nullified and even more if you used the scorshot, who gave you AoE fire damage at the cost of nothing. if devs would had been a slighty, just a bit smarter, they would had realised that such a thing ultimately defeated the entire purpose of the weapon and had switched the "fill from fire damage" to "[I]damage dealt[/I]". its only then (pretty much how every other weapon with a rage metter works) when your average, casual pyro loses its momentum and realises it has to fight with far more factors in consideration to earn that boost and that certain maps would make things extremely hard to earn that boost efficiently, ultimately dropping it for something far easier to use like the stock or the backburner. of course, the weapon and its mechanics suffered from other desings issues that worked agasint its concept, such as lacking any real visual or audible key to warn others that a phlog pyro had its boost active other than the critboosted weapon. (unlike other weapons such as the banners, the deadringer or an ubercharge do) or the fact that the boost was activated prior to the taunt animation and not after (like scout's bonk/crit-a-cola). with all that said, it was a fun concept that was deeply rooted in the core mechanics of what a pyro was meant to do and excel at, but ultimately failed miserably at the hands of the same play testers who though that [I]gray[/I]'s mvm robots had to be [I]blue[/I] so players wont be confused.

[QUOTE=Drury;51609486]The best way to get competitive players out of casual is make the actual competitive mode intended for them not a complete joke.[/QUOTE] Nah. Pubstomping is fun in and of itself, it doesn't mean people would rather play against players of their own skill. There's plenty of ways of doing that, even if it's not within a game menu. Pubstompers come to pubstomp, which is a kind of unsolvable problem.

[QUOTE=Tinker;51614624]Nah. Pubstomping is fun in and of itself, it doesn't mean people would rather play against players of their own skill. There's plenty of ways of doing that, even if it's not within a game menu. Pubstompers come to pubstomp, which is a kind of unsolvable problem.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but something can be done at least. As it stands pretty much everyone plays Casual.

I don't. I won't touch Valve servers with a ten foot pole.

[QUOTE=Drury;51614791]Yeah, but something can be done at least. As it stands pretty much everyone plays Casual.[/QUOTE] Unless it's very rigorous matchmaking with a complete overhaul of how TF2 works, there really isn't much to be done. They could try and boost community servers, but that may be too little, too late. Pubstomping can be bad but it has always been there and never really seemed to deter new players. The problem is that now with the new Casual (as opposed to Quickplay or old community servers) there isn't really a place to dick around any more without people ragging on you. The old, simple, server list meant there were servers for people who just wanted to screw around and not really do anything on MARIO_KART or 2Fort and servers for people who wanted to have a more high skill serious casual match on a community rotation server. Now both of those servers have disappeared except a stubborn few and there's zero ways from the main menu that easily lead to them.

So Tf2 comic didn't come out yet. Or I just can't see it on the TF2 website.

[QUOTE=Paradox_cg;51615473]So Tf2 comic didn't come out yet. Or I just can't see it on the TF2 website.[/QUOTE] I wish I could be this naive.

hidden mmrs etc won't do shit because of how massive skill discrepancy can be and if you do that say hello to smurfs you will wind up with the same problem with a pointless and redundant system to back it up

[QUOTE=Power Glove;51616008]hidden mmrs etc won't do shit because of how massive skill discrepancy can be and if you do that say hello to smurfs you will wind up with the same problem with a pointless and redundant system to back it up[/QUOTE] then there should at least be a decent system in place to make sure there is a proper gradient of skill across both teams

[QUOTE=Power Glove;51616008]hidden mmrs etc won't do shit because of how massive skill discrepancy can be and if you do that say hello to smurfs you will wind up with the same problem with a pointless and redundant system to back it up[/QUOTE] Smurfs are an unavoidable problem, however managing that new players are playing against new players, and that b4nny plays against atleast someone who was 300 hours in the game should be possible.

Hell, you even get smurfs in MVM of all gamemodes. They're just a part of the beast that is ranked matchmaking.