Major Update Speculation V35 - A Distinctive Lack of Communication - Games

[QUOTE=ikes;51630402]then fucking email them has anyone worth their salt even tried that? im sure if some prominent figures sent rebalance ideas theyd at least read it like why the fuck does nobody bother to try? there's no negative consequences if you do[/QUOTE] Yes, its been tried before, by a lot of people infact. Whether it be the entire Steam Group for the Matchmaking Beta, or b4nny sending an 11(?) page document to valve about tf2 suggestions.

[QUOTE=ikes;51630402]then fucking email them has anyone worth their salt even tried that? im sure if some prominent figures sent rebalance ideas theyd at least read it like why the fuck does nobody bother to try? there's no negative consequences if you do I think you all have an absurdly wrong perspective of how valve works. they dont read your silly fucking meme forums, contacting them and influencing their decisions isnt about shouting and pissing as loud and far as you can, email them your concerns in volume, they're going to mean something.[/QUOTE] B4nny said he sent a multi-page rebalance suggestion list to the TF2 team a couple of weeks ago and they responded to them and let him know they got it/were going to look at it.

Honestly I don't see competitive working as long as the main game mode is 5cp, too big of a potential for stalemates, matches can go on forever or atleast take a long time and too many game mechanics and plays that arenever used.

[QUOTE=ikes;51630402]then fucking email them has anyone worth their salt even tried that? im sure if some prominent figures sent rebalance ideas theyd at least read it like why the fuck does nobody bother to try? there's no negative consequences if you do I think you all have an absurdly wrong perspective of how valve works. they dont read your silly fucking meme forums, contacting them and influencing their decisions isnt about shouting and pissing as loud and far as you can, email them your concerns in volume, they're going to mean something.[/QUOTE] Yes, I've sent many emails, in fact I sent one about an hour ago Now, which tf2 employee is best to send them to? I've always sent them to Eric S

[QUOTE=Blackavar;51630471]Yes, I've sent many emails, in fact I sent one about an hour ago Now, which tf2 employee is best to send them to? I've always sent them to Eric S[/QUOTE] Eric told me he really tries to read all the emails he can but there are seriously a ton.

[QUOTE=geel9;51630507]Eric told me he really tries to read all the emails he can but there are seriously a ton.[/QUOTE] well, i sent him like two or three emails a while back talking about pyro's flamethrower mojo and how what you see isn't what's there and how that should be changed... i guess he just doesn't really respond to them

[QUOTE=ikes;51630402]then fucking email them has anyone worth their salt even tried that? im sure if some prominent figures sent rebalance ideas theyd at least read it like why the fuck does nobody bother to try? there's no negative consequences if you do I think you all have an absurdly wrong perspective of how valve works. they dont read your silly fucking meme forums, contacting them and influencing their decisions isnt about shouting and pissing as loud and far as you can, email them your concerns in volume, they're going to mean something.[/QUOTE] The fact you legitimately believe anybody who gives a damn hasn't tried emailing them already, or the fact that you think they don't visit forums (they've released updates in response to multiple r/tf2 posts?) shows how you're speaking purely out of uneducated opinion. cmon' man [editline]6th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Blackavar;51630520]well, i sent him like two or three emails a while back talking about pyro's flamethrower mojo and how what you see isn't what's there and how that should be changed... i guess he just doesn't really respond to them[/QUOTE] They literally linked the website which best covered this, they've confirmed they're aware of the issue so emailing them about things like this is an example of useless contact

[QUOTE=Punchy;51630531]They literally linked the website which best covered this, they've confirmed they're aware of the issue so emailing them about things like this is an example of useless contact[/QUOTE] to be fair this was long before the pyro update was announced and that website was linked but yeah, they've probably known about these problems without fixing them for years EDIT: I sent the email 12/11/15

we also need to remember that for their small workforce, fixing pyro is going to be a pretty huge undertaking considering how much of his toolset is buggy due to very odd engine/server quirks and likely not due to deliberate code itself they also need to rework him to be useful and viable while keeping his gameplay feel similar to normal so as not to force players to relearn all of his skills and the like

I wish that we could just see some more general improvements before they go on a big task like balancing Pyro. I want to see the Legacy Browser re-done from the ground-up, it's slow and buggy compared to CS:GO's. I'd also love to see minor Bi-monthly balances, just a few weapons affected. But instead I sit here with all these tiered hats, wondering what they're doing. Hell, I was expecting at the very least a new campaign with skins for Smissmas.

[QUOTE=ikes;51630594]we also need to remember that for their small workforce, fixing pyro is going to be a pretty huge undertaking considering how much of his toolset is buggy due to very odd engine/server quirks and likely not due to deliberate code itself they also need to rework him to be useful and viable while keeping his gameplay feel similar to normal so as not to force players to relearn all of his skills and the like[/QUOTE] I'd gladly relearn pyro if it meant there was a greater skill ceiling to reach for. Anyways, how hard can it be to attach some visible fire particles to the hitboxes that hurt people, instead of having the two entities be separate? The main issue is going to be fixing the inconsistency of flame range between people of different qualities of connection. I like how the fire hitboxes move at the moment, not including their inconsistency with ping. It moves backwards when you move backwards, making you more dangerous as you backpedal (an s+m1 pyro always beats a w+m1 pyro: try it!) It moves forward as you move forward, making little lunges able to send fire much further than normal. These are interesting and consistent properties that should stay in the game. I just want those things to be visible instead of invisible so people have ways of beating them as well as realizing those tactics exist, so they may also learn to use them. Airblast is another matter entirely. The "airblast projectiles casino" issue, as it's called in frompyrowithlove, may be evidence of deeper engine issues that could be much more difficult to fix. And gauging how far your airblast will reach has been difficult since airblast existed on pyro. This is without mentioning the weird, massive box that airblast operates in, that should be smaller and of a different shape. Afterburn is weak, but there are simple ways that I have suggested multiple times to make it stronger. Simply: afterburn does double damage per second over half the time, and health packs no longer extinguish fire. (scorch shot would need to be nerfed) etc etc things i've said a million times

[QUOTE=geel9;51630507]Eric told me he really tries to read all the emails he can but there are seriously a ton.[/QUOTE] Well he's had 8 months to do it.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;51630456]B4nny said he sent a multi-page rebalance suggestion list to the TF2 team a couple of weeks ago and they responded to them and let him know they got it/were going to look at it.[/QUOTE] To tell you the truth, him sending valve page(s) of changes and [U]not sharing those with the community[/U] (us), is really odd. Remember last time when Valve used b4nny as consultant on the matchmaking and how that turned out during the release time? Yeah, i'm not that optimistic that the changes suggested are viable in any view than competitive side. The game has also the casual competitive side, where things are not "HARD MODE" with the hardcore players.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;51630520]well, i sent him like two or three emails a while back talking about pyro's flamethrower mojo and how what you see isn't what's there and how that should be changed... i guess he just doesn't really respond to them[/QUOTE] I just sent an Email earlier this week to Eric and got a reply: [t]http://puu.sh/tcSIs/95ca3c06e4.png[/t] So I'm sure he does try to read them all.

He read my suggestion about the Spine-Chilling Skull equip regions, even though they updated the wrong Spine-Chilling Skull in the subsequent update.

There's no TF2 Beta because nobody played it.

[QUOTE=ics;51630737]To tell you the truth, him sending valve page(s) of changes and [U]not sharing those with the community[/U] (us), is really odd. Remember last time when Valve used b4nny as consultant on the matchmaking and how that turned out during the release time? Yeah, i'm not that optimistic that the changes suggested are viable in any view than competitive side. The game has also the casual competitive side, where things are not "HARD MODE" with the hardcore players.[/QUOTE] It's not like B4nny programmed the matchmaking or was responsible for the state of MyM. I don't think it's a bad idea for Valve to look at balance suggestions from top level pro players. They shouldn't only consider their opnions of course (the TF2 weapon ideas/rebalance suggestions subreddit is a good place to look too. There are lots of bad ideas there but some good ones) but high level players like B4nny can potentially have some good balance ideas.

I hate b4nny as a person, but he has a good game sense about him. He did a video about the degreaser a while back I thought was pretty good [video=youtube;Y5pZgph_ZaU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5pZgph_ZaU[/video] I still think this is largely true, the degreaser nerfs didn't really do anything about it. Other than make it take a wopping 5 more ammo and switch slightly slower.

Seems like Valve's new years resolution is to actually check the bug fix github - nice. Let's hope we will finally get a Server fix today.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51631147]I hate b4nny as a person, but he has a good game sense about him. He did a video about the degreaser a while back I thought was pretty good [video=youtube;Y5pZgph_ZaU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5pZgph_ZaU[/video] I still think this is largely true, the degreaser nerfs didn't really do anything about it. Other than make it take a wopping 5 more ammo and switch slightly slower.[/QUOTE] This is kind of addresses a symptom rather than the cause: the fact that airblast is now the entirety of the Pyro's meta way to play, which is dumb (especially for as mechanically broken as that ability is). I expected him to go that route after mentioning it at the start.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51631147]I hate b4nny as a person, but he has a good game sense about him. He did a video about the degreaser a while back I thought was pretty good [video=youtube;Y5pZgph_ZaU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5pZgph_ZaU[/video] I still think this is largely true, the degreaser nerfs didn't really do anything about it. Other than make it take a wopping 5 more ammo and switch slightly slower.[/QUOTE] I think for the most part, people hated how he suggested the difference between the degreaser and stock flamethrower would just hit the pyro as a whole. Oh, the pyro's only good for airblasts, why not take the better airblasting flamethrower and significantly nerf. Which would do what he suggests, but also nerf the only point a lot of higher end pyro's play the class to begin with. I do definitely agree that weapons like the degreaser and stock flamethrower are too similar will never be balanced towards one another though. If they're not willing to make a play style that distinguishes use for both of them, you can damn well expect that one will always be preferred over the other one.

we should triple direct fire damage, make fire hitboxes smaller by a factor of 3, but make degreaser still have the old damage but have the switch speed and better airblasts or whatever of course, we need to fix the issues with airblast and fire first Edit: I really wish it were possible to playtest these things

[QUOTE=Blackavar;51632210]Edit: I really wish it were possible to playtest these things[/QUOTE] It is; It's the whole reason for tf2 tightrope.

Also I'm I the only one that thinks splash damage is annoying? Splash Damage to Soldier is like Airblast to Pyro

[QUOTE=G=4//\/\3!2;51633279]Also I'm I the only one that thinks splash damage is annoying? Splash Damage to Soldier is like Airblast to Pyro[/QUOTE] Soldier's splash damage has a consistent hitbox and can be used to escape him with proper strafing. Pyro's air blast can be used to keep people stuck in a corner endlessly while also consuming any previous momentum. Pyro can air blast people from behind them to catch up to them. That frankly, is stupid.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51633343]Soldier's splash damage has a consistent hitbox and can be used to escape him with proper strafing. Pyro's air blast can be used to keep people stuck in a corner endlessly while also consuming any previous momentum. Pyro can air blast people from behind them to catch up to them. That frankly, is stupid.[/QUOTE] Yeah, always annoyed me ( more so on scout ) to run past a pyro just trying to get around him. Only for his airblast to pop me straight up in the air, killing all momentum, lights me on fire and instantly reserve shooters me or flare punches me while I'm a sitting duck. I can see airblast killing my momentum if I'm running towards the pyro. But if I'm running away from the pyro it should launch me further away, not pop me directly up in the air for a dirt easy kill.

What if airblast functioned more like a mini explosive knockback? As in, the only thing that changes would be if people were running away, it'd just boost them away.

Weird that we have not received an Update this week - no fixing update after it, something must be stopping them. Actually just makes me even more optimistic that the Pyro Update is sooner than you think.

[QUOTE=Fluury;51633972]Weird that we have not received an Update this week - no fixing update after it, something must be stopping them. Actually just makes me even more optimistic that the Pyro Update is sooner than you think.[/QUOTE] Or the team is much worse now/ the problems are too big. Or they just forgot. Nobody knows but the team, and they aren't talking.

[QUOTE=A_Guardian;51634176]Or the team is much worse now/ the problems are too big. Or they just forgot. Nobody knows but the team, and they aren't talking.[/QUOTE] They haven't talked because nobody has forced them to. Aren't Reddit still slobbering the TF2 Team over this update?