Major Update Speculation V35 - A Distinctive Lack of Communication - Games

the big differences between OW and TF2 characters is that both are ostensibly teams of killers, but the OW characters are still portrayed like Pixar heroes. none of them say anything mean or even seem like they should be on a battlefield. why the fuck is a chinese climatologist fighting a cowboy? meanwhile the tf2 classes are not only killers, most of them are proud of it and all of them are assholes in some way or another. valve plays up the fact it's a multiplayer shooter for black comedy, blizzard shies away from it. compare a random OW line to "Ooh I'm gonna stick me thumbs in yer eyes and hang on till yer DEAD". man i'm almost upset this comic got me back into tf2. if they were to present info on the pyro or jungle theme updates then i might have to keep playing.

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;51656940]the big differences between OW and TF2 characters is that both are ostensibly teams of killers, but the OW characters are still portrayed like Pixar heroes. none of them say anything mean or even seem like they should be on a battlefield. why the fuck is a chinese climatologist fighting a cowboy?[/QUOTE] Can both parties stop this dick measuring contest before we have to read more, shall we say, questionable posts like this one? Thank you in advance.

[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;51656980]Can both parties stop this dick measuring contest before we have to read more, shall we say, questionable posts like this one? Thank you in advance.[/QUOTE] It seems like a reasonable observation to me.

[QUOTE=Drury;51656923]Administrator's childhood memories of australium[/QUOTE] I interpreted that as meaning her craving revenge, not directly craving immortality and australium. Another plot point that hasn't been made clear is why Pauling has spent ten years working for the nutcase.

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;51656940]the big differences between OW and TF2 characters is that both are ostensibly teams of killers, but the OW characters are still portrayed like Pixar heroes. none of them say anything mean or even seem like they should be on a battlefield. why the fuck is a chinese climatologist fighting a cowboy? meanwhile the tf2 classes are not only killers, most of them are proud of it and all of them are assholes in some way or another. valve plays up the fact it's a multiplayer shooter for black comedy, blizzard shies away from it. compare a random OW line to "Ooh I'm gonna stick me thumbs in yer eyes and hang on till yer DEAD". man i'm almost upset this comic got me back into tf2. if they were to present info on the pyro or jungle theme updates then i might have to keep playing.[/QUOTE] well, overwatch is rated T for Teen, tf2 is obviously rated M overwatch didn't want kids parents to not buy this game for their kids

[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;51656980]Can both parties stop this dick measuring contest before we have to read more, shall we say, questionable posts like this one? Thank you in advance.[/QUOTE] Comparing two online multiplayer FPS shooters with many similar mechanics and ways of telling stories is entirely reasonable, and can lead to insights about the strengths and weaknesses of both. It's reasonable TF2 discussion to look at how it compares to other games in the same vein and all the posts whining about it are detracting far more from the discussion than overwatch talk ever could.

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;51656781]For a while, I thought Ms Pauling was going to be a clone of the Administrator who will take over for her when she passes. Clone maybe not, but I wouldn't be surprised if she did take over for the Administrator after she does die.[/QUOTE] Ms Pauling announcer pack when.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51657157]Ms Pauling announcer pack when.[/QUOTE] Well, they do have a Voice Actress for her now. When the Administrator dies they could replace her voiced lines ( or at least give an option ) with Ms Pauling voiced lines to kind of add a little bit of variation to the game. Not much of a variation, but little tidbits of change can add up over time if they're willing to do it.

I doubt they'll ever do announcer packs since they would need to go back and record new lines for those packs anytime they added new announcer lines.

The closest we'll get is different maps having voice packs built in, like the Halloween maps or the UFO beer map. I could see a new map having Pauling voice lines, or HL1 VOX if it's TFC themed or something.

[QUOTE=chandlerj333;51655221]Just realized dell conagher confirmed for two real hands.[/QUOTE] But he doesn't? Like he has this scar on right hand in entire comics. [t]http://i.imgur.com/7N7jdBj.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/dXeYzZv.png[/t]

Just realised engie has a beard in the comics

[QUOTE=HASL;51657331]But he doesn't? Like he has this scar on right hand in entire comics. [t]http://i.imgur.com/7N7jdBj.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/dXeYzZv.png[/t][/QUOTE] you beautiful genius, you, and your eye for detail

so i sent an email to jill a while back with this content in it: "1. What's keeping the team from balancing weapons a little every minor update? Is it a lack of ideas? If so, you can easily find some in the "Weapon Fixing Megathread" on the TF2 section of Facepunch. Facepunch has a rating system that allows us members of the forum to instantly react to any posts we see. If having trouble getting ideas for proper balance is the issue, consulting people's reactions on some of our ideas may bolster some in the team, perhaps. Balancing the game a little every week would keep people playing, and would make the game fresh and interesting all the time. And, if for some reason the people do not like whatever changes are made, I'm sure the reaction will be swift and great enough that appropriate action can be done. But don't always trust the mob. 2. Why was the beta discontinued? This is a question I certainly have, but I'm more interested in talking about why bringing it back is a good idea, and the changes that ought to be made for it to be meaningful to the team. For one, major updates in the past few years have been infamous for breaking things on day one, something I'm sure the members of the TF Team never anticipate or want to happen. If updates are released early on the beta for significant playtesting by the beta userbase, perhaps those bugs can be fixed sooner than days after the official release of the update. Second, it would allow the TF Team to see at a greater degree issues with balancing before those balance changes are released to the public. Of course, for this to be effective, all players involved with the beta would have to be given all the non-reskin weapons in the game, since the beta is separate from standard TF2. I hope this helps. Should this email be read, thank you for your time." I received a reply today, saying "Apologies for the late reply. We do read all the email we get, but it can be hard to reply to them all. Without getting too much into our development processes: Weapon balance is only one of a number of things we are working on currently. With our present development resources, it often makes more sense focus on certain areas as a team. Balance, in particular, requires playtesting and evaluating often noisy data, and benefits from being pushed into larger sets of changes from a development-time perspective. As for the TF Beta, we found that the burden of maintaining an essentially separate copy of the game universe was not the best approach. Low participation makes for less reliable feedback, and comes at a non-zero maintenance cost. We have talked about ways to introduce more lightweight beta features for balance in particular, but don't really have anything worth talking about at this point." thank you for sending this jill but this is pretty much all i expected tbh

I sent an email to Eric the other day and [I]also[/I] got a response. [quote] [IMG]https://puu.sh/tiLOC/787ec937dd.png[/IMG] [/quote] The TF Team responding to emails and keeping an eye on Github (and responding to a number of bug reports there!)...honest to God, they're actually communicating. Like, sure, they aren't posting 10-minute long dev commentaries or whatever, but they are letting people like us, this game's oldest/most dedicated fans, know that our concerns and our feedback is being heard. That's pretty incredible. I'm still a little salty about the delayed major update we were clearly meant to get (not that I lost a bet- I had fun delivering), but they're at least showing us now that we [I]are[/I] being heard and that they [I]do[/I] care. Here's hoping they take real note of our feedback and start moving the game in the right direction.

[QUOTE=Contra132;51657476]I sent an email to Eric the other day and [I]also[/I] got a response. The TF Team responding to emails and keeping an eye on Github (and responding to a number of bug reports there!)...honest to God, they're actually communicating. Like, sure, they aren't posting 10-minute long dev commentaries or whatever, but they are letting people like us, this game's oldest/most dedicated fans, know that our concerns and our feedback is being heard. That's pretty incredible. I'm still a little salty about the delayed major update we were clearly meant to get (not that I lost a bet- I had fun delivering), but they're at least showing us now that we [I]are[/I] being heard and that they [I]do[/I] care. Here's hoping they take real note of our feedback and start moving the game in the right direction.[/QUOTE] I'm glad that after the comic, people in this thread are starting to come back to their senses about valve [B]not[/B] being the worst company ever. It honestly may have been some situation of being extremely busy over the past year or just not having enough manpower, or who knows. I still love Valve, even with their huberus popping up here and there. To anyone who's still adamant on it though, not that i'm trying to change everyone's minds, just remember, it could have been a [B]LOT[/B] worse. Be at least somewhat thankful it's valve in control, and not some company like EA or Activision. Also Contra I don't really mean to say it's you in particular with this post, this is just a good example of people forgiving valve.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;51657697]Still no reason for the characters to be as one dimensional as possible.[/QUOTE] Quantity over Quality I suppose. I mean thinking about it, other than 2-3 paragraphs on the blizzard site, most OW heroes have had almost no media to flesh them out in the slightest.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;51657697]Still no reason for the characters to be as one dimensional as possible.[/QUOTE] Most characters in Overwatch can be described in one sentence. My personal favorite is Ana: "I'm retired, but now I'm not."

[QUOTE=Serge Ivanov;51657743]Most characters in Overwatch can be described in one sentence. My personal favorite is Ana: "I'm retired, but now I'm not."[/QUOTE] Isn't that also Soldier 76?

[QUOTE=Contra132;51657476]email[/QUOTE] what all did you write before the slightly silly "you're awesome" section of it you've shown here?

[QUOTE=Serge Ivanov;51657592]huberus[/quote] IT'S HUBRIS DON'T HURT ME LIKE THIS [quote]Also Contra I don't really mean to say it's you in particular with this post, this is just a good example of people forgiving valve.[/QUOTE] I get you. I mean, I was mad pissed the day our non-update came out, but up until then and even now I've always leaned on the side of defending the TF Team. I genuinely believe they have good intentions and want to see this game grow and succeed in 2016- they just need to listen to the right people and communicate a little better about what they're going to do. Between their dedicated github guy (Kisak), Eric and Jill responding to emails/Github issues, I really feel like they're making an honest effort for us. [editline]11th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Blackavar;51657787]what all did you write before the slightly silly "you're awesome" section of it you've shown here?[/QUOTE] Highlighted a number of Github threads/topics I thought needed special attention and gave my feedback on the topic of Spy balance, including how one should go about nerfing the DR if they feel it's a necessity (you and I had this discussion before- the "Marked For Death" penalty if a Spy keeps it up too long without it activating is what I proposed, so the weapon actually requires a modicum of timing and game sense to be used effectively) and how to deal with problematic weapons in relation to Spy (RTR and Diamondback being OP, YER being nigh useless, and a recommendation on how to tweak the Razorback in a way that doesn't allow Snipers to dominate the game without needing to maintain any situational awareness).

[QUOTE=Serge Ivanov;51657743]Most characters in Overwatch can be described in one sentence. My personal favorite is Ana: "I'm retired, but now I'm not."[/QUOTE] Ana is by far the deepest character in Overwatch in terms of personality, but even then she is pretty shallow compared to most other franchises. She is a veteran dealing with the guilt of years in battle, losing allies and regretting the lives she has taken, using her assumed death to retire before realising she still needs to protect her loved ones. She's very no-nonsense but cares about her allies a lot. I think her voice actor helps with that. She isn't voiced by a professional, she's voiced by a localisation director in Egypt using her normal voice, so she sounds like an actual person.

[QUOTE=Contra132;51657476]I sent an email to Eric the other day and [I]also[/I] got a response. The TF Team responding to emails and keeping an eye on Github (and responding to a number of bug reports there!)...honest to God, they're actually communicating. Like, sure, they aren't posting 10-minute long dev commentaries or whatever, but they are letting people like us, this game's oldest/most dedicated fans, know that our concerns and our feedback is being heard. That's pretty incredible. I'm still a little salty about the delayed major update we were clearly meant to get (not that I lost a bet- I had fun delivering), but they're at least showing us now that we [I]are[/I] being heard and that they [I]do[/I] care. Here's hoping they take real note of our feedback and start moving the game in the right direction.[/QUOTE] I wonder how he'll deliver your love Eric: yo some spy main said hi Jill: fuck spy mains Gabe: you're fired

[QUOTE=Contra132;51657774]Isn't that also Soldier 76?[/QUOTE] I think Soldier 76 is more just "I'm old." [editline]11th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Magypsy;51657828]Ana is by far the deepest character in Overwatch in terms of personality, but even then she is pretty shallow compared to most other franchises. She is a veteran dealing with the guilt of years in battle, losing allies and regretting the lives she has taken, using her assumed death to retire before realising she still needs to protect her loved ones. She's very no-nonsense but cares about her allies a lot. I think her voice actor helps with that. She isn't voiced by a professional, she's voiced by a localisation director in Egypt using her normal voice, so she sounds like an actual person. [/QUOTE] Okay that i'll give credit for then, considering there's some research that could be done behind the game itself. Similar to how the Heavy has a PHD in Russian Literature, but everyone assume's he just POOTIS. [editline]11th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Contra132;51657774] I get you. I mean, I was mad pissed the day our non-update came out, but up until then and even now I've always leaned on the side of defending the TF Team. I genuinely believe they have good intentions and want to see this game grow and succeed in 2016- they just need to listen to the right people and communicate a little better about what they're going to do. Between their dedicated github guy (Kisak), Eric and Jill responding to emails/Github issues, I really feel like they're making an honest effort for us. [/QUOTE] I mean if they weren't they'd probably just up and drop all development, and I feel like people are failing to realize that lately. Moreso on the subreddit but it does spread here too.

[QUOTE=Nebrassy;51657851]Eric: yo some spy main said hi Jill: fuck spy mains Gabe: you're fired[/QUOTE] story of my life tbh [editline]11th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Serge Ivanov;51657863]I mean if they weren't they'd probably just up and drop all development, and I feel like people are failing to realize that lately. Moreso on the subreddit but it does spread here too.[/QUOTE] you messed up your me-quote somehow and made it look like it came from Hotrod pls fix

The important thing to remember about the TF team is that they have no control over the size of their team. Valve hires employees of Valve, to work at Valve, doing Valve things. They don't hire employees to do Dota things or CSGO things or TF things.

[QUOTE=geel9;51658105]The important thing to remember about the TF team is that they have no control over the size of their team. Valve hires employees of Valve, to work at Valve, doing Valve things. They don't hire employees to do Dota things or CSGO things or TF things.[/QUOTE] That may have worked when Valve was smaller, but now it's obvious that it simply isn't working out. They need to adapt or else this game will die, which would be a shame.

[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;51658195]That may have worked when Valve was smaller, but now it's obvious that it simply isn't working out. They need to adapt or else this game will die, which would be a shame.[/QUOTE] It isn't working out for the diehard fans. It's working [I]really[/I] well for Valve. Employees would much rather keep what they have going, and it's hard to change work culture. Valve would more likely dissolve than adopt whatever golden management structure you have in mind.

After reading the reply from Jill to Blackavars message, things look more clear to me why things take so long time to do. He talks about "with our present development resources" and it does appear those have been kind of thin for the past few years. They "skipped" 2 halloweens and supposedly the pyro update was delayed to this year because of that too. But there is no confirmation of that. Employees, that is, who are available or willing to work on TF2. Those are the "present development resources" that are missing. Atleast this is how i read between the lines. So with Valve hiring people, they do hire for the company, not for TF2. How could we make TF2 have more dedicated resources (more people) to help the devs out? I guess only option is to go higher and collect names, convince Gabe, do something else?

It's great that your emails are getting cute private answers but that's still not *public* communication. $niper_Min3craft from reddit will know nothing about this, and thus nothing will stop him from uploading his weekly "Bring back tf2 beta" post getting 300 updoots. There is still an extreme lack of anything coming from Valve - we don't know anything. Hell, who knows, maybe there isnt a Major Update that was delayed, Valve considers the Smissmas 2016 Update Major, and we are only going to get a snarky "see ya in summer" .