Major Update Speculation V35 - A Distinctive Lack of Communication - Games

so is it me or nothing's been happening for a while unless we consider this halloween counts? does it really count?

I'd count Halloween because it actually got me to play TF2 again but that's just me

[QUOTE=Hell-met;51341757]so is it me or nothing's been happening for a while unless we consider this halloween counts? does it really count?[/QUOTE] No, unless you truthfully take pleasure in random crits x 100.

Theres no easy way to say it. I have had zero fun this Scream Fortress. It was a mess, start to finish

i mean there's nothing new this year that can't just be played at anytime during the year on a community server. unless you consider contracts a gameplay thing?

Good map design [T]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/147885146666031185/9C11E50BA3F3BA8ABA319213FF31D28CFF2ACB8E/[/T] [T]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/147885146666030774/90CF37E37AF2D157BE72D7CA3891DA641F0A198A/[/T] [T]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/147885146666030409/7486FF9187DD26FA4831C1118F3826EACA8C1640/[/T]

honestly i didn't expect much this ""update"" besides things being rushed out the door before any sensible person would've told them "HEY THAT CRAP AIN'T FINISHED" like there's nothing that came from this """"update"""" that i was excited for TF2 honestly should've stopped recieving support after gun mettle, cause at least then it would've went out on a high/positive note and not a "valve doesn't give two flying fucks about this game because they keep giving it trash quality updates" [MERASMUS IN THE SPAWN SHIT] well i don't know what you were expecting from such a shit map in the first place, i guess it's really hard to put an npc clip in front of a team's spawn so nextbots can't just walzt in and spawncamp your team

[QUOTE=Demohamtheyum;51343580] well i don't know what you were expecting from such a shit map in the first place, i guess it's really hard to put an npc clip in front of a team's spawn so nextbots can't just walzt in and spawncamp your team[/QUOTE] You do know that npc clip blocks also bots from getting out of the spawn? Also, thanks for the constructive criticism, always fun to read.

[QUOTE=ics;51343724]You do know that npc clip blocks also bots from getting out of the spawn? Also, thanks for the constructive criticism, always fun to read.[/QUOTE] Brimstone or Hellstone or whichever one that has two Monoculi also breaks the HUD when they're in play. You can't keep track of both health bars simultaneously because they're both being hit, and it constantly switches between the health bars of the two. And it's also two Monoculi so its already a lot to take on. Ultimately, there's just too much going on, in both maps. It's an endless hodgepodge of scattered NPCs and spells that differ from what players are used to and come out of nowhere. The theming in detail also doesn't have clear transitions between 4 different themes that don't work well together. One of them uses Manor, Industrial, Hell, Sawmill, and Spytech themes all in the same map - and I can't ever remember which one it is because they're both so similarly named. You also use Half-Life 2 log models in one of the maps, right next to TF2 logs. The stark contrast in detail and quality of those logs, and almost any HL2 model in use in a TF2 map is incredibly jarring. Only times where HL2 models really fit is if they're low-detail, far from the player perspective, or both. Take for instance, the HL2 fences used in between the final cap points on Powerhouse, or the HL2 antennae on the rooftops of Kong King. Those are all far from coming close to where a player would be, but add the detail of their silhouette and general appearance to benefit the detailing of the map. You just have HL2 logs right in the middle of the player space, right next to TF2 logs - it doesn't work. Also, if you have a func_nav_prefer, like you should, you should be able to exclude the spawns from that brushwork. Merasmus has never left a func_nav_prefer zone I've known of, but if he has, it may be on the fault of poor map design rather than the tech behind it. If you have that in place and it still doesn't work, just set up a a filter that keeps the Merasmus entity out. Sometimes people don't give critique in the best ways, but it's fair to step back and look at the critique if it's such a vocal majority.

The only reason I'm playing is for the Merasmissions, but the longer queue times aren't helping.

[QUOTE=ics;51341451]I have been running gameservers for Valve games over 10 years. For TF2, at it's lifetime. At the time when Valve turned quickplay to their own servers, started a decay of 4x24 full servers. In 1 year, they managed to annihilate most of the players we had, simply because quickplay didn't bring in the last empty slots of players anymore and people joined less and less to empty servers. It's really hard to bring in constant new players at areas like northern Finland, where the player population isn't as thick as in Germany or USA. So in 2 years, effectively every server is empty, has been for the past year too. Not even halloweens has managed to spike those up anymore and not even xp can be earned. I can understand the reasoning of this, - and valve punishing the bad servers but they also killed a lot of good communities running servers for this game. But i guess they have no need for those anymore, since they have their own servers.[/QUOTE] Yeah all the community servers I played on over the years with normal maps/game modes are dead now. The last one that held out - Critsandvich, pretty much got killed off with MyM. At least Valve servers are much more playable now after MyM.

[QUOTE=Void Skull;51344021] Take for instance, the HL2 fences used in between the final cap points on Powerhouse, or the HL2 antennae on the rooftops of Kong King. Those are all far from coming close to where a player would be, but add the detail of their silhouette and general appearance to benefit the detailing of the map. You just have HL2 logs right in the middle of the player space, right next to TF2 logs - it doesn't work. [/QUOTE] well valve used hl2 fences in powerhouse and hl2 concrete blocks on badwater :v:

[QUOTE=Hell-met;51344432]well valve used hl2 fences in powerhouse and hl2 concrete blocks on badwater :v:[/QUOTE] True, but they're used with TF2's appearance in mind. Here, the HL2 fences in Powerhouse are only visible from these windows. [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/586461/Models/2016/20161109190357_1.jpg[/t] The concrete barriers in Badwater are in the player space, yeah, but they're relatively clean textures that don't contrast with the appearance of the world around them. [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/586461/Models/2016/20161109190457_1.jpg[/t] The antennae in Kong King are used only for silhouettes and even then, they aren't very noisy compared to the rest of the TF2 world. From where a player can see them, they serve their purpose without looking out of place. [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/586461/Models/2016/20161109190536_1.jpg[/t] In Brimstone, however, these HL2 logs are right in the player space, and right next to TF2 logs. While they could potentially work far out of the player space, they're ultimately too close to any player that would see them - the gritty textures and off proportions are a stark contrast to the actual TF2 logs placed a few feet away from them. [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/586461/Models/2016/20161109190645_1.jpg[/t] Half-Life 2 props can be used in TF2 maps, and they have been, and they have looked fine before, but they need to be thought-out better and used in a way that doesn't make them collide with what else is in the world. And while I'm sharing screenshots, here's an example of multiple themes being used without transition in one single area. Manor's wallpaper, a circus poster, a lava Hell pit, Spytech consoles, and an overlooking industrial area. It doesn't read as a cohesive theme palette. [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/586461/Models/2016/20161109191731_1.jpg[/t]

both brimstone and hellstone seem like a complete clusterfuck of halloween gimmicks all mashed into one map, which is incredibly unfun to play in

[QUOTE=Void Skull;51344648] The concrete barriers in Badwater are in the player space, yeah, but they're relatively clean textures that don't contrast with the appearance of the world around them. [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/586461/Models/2016/20161109190457_1.jpg[/t] [/QUOTE] These ones always bothered me, actually. They're kind of small compared to the overall size of TF2's characters and the grit near the top makes them stand out compared to the rest of the environment

[QUOTE=rolfum;51344827]both brimstone and hellstone seem like a complete clusterfuck of halloween gimmicks all mashed into one map, which is incredibly unfun to play in[/QUOTE] I believe Hellstone and Brimstone were both made by the same person, so it makes sense that they both would be basically the same type of clusterfuck with everything smashed into one.

[QUOTE=Void Skull;51344648]The concrete barriers in Badwater are in the player space, yeah, but they're relatively clean textures that don't contrast with the appearance of the world around them. [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/586461/Models/2016/20161109190457_1.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] It's never occurred to me that those might've been HL2 props but something about that area has always put me off slightly. Now I'll never see those as TF2 props again.

Oh [I]great[/I], now I can't unsee that whenever I play Badwater Basin. :v:

[QUOTE=Void Skull;51344648] [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/586461/Models/2016/20161109191731_1.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] god i fucking hate this spawn room

While I have full respect towards ics for being a decent person in chats and that he didn't tell me and a friend of mine to "google it lol" when we had issues with the map my friend was making, I have to admit that I can't enjoy Brimstone OR Hellstone almost at all since the bosses are a pain, the Merasmus spells lack the visual and audio cues they should have, the spawnroom has been mentioned above, etc... Millstone_event (hellstone) is better in terms of map design, looks, and overall playability but the bosses kill it. ESPECIALLY double-monoculus. That's just an abomination, the game doesn't support more than one boss at once properly. It reminds me of Minecraft prior to I think 1.10 where it had only one boss bar and multiple bosses would make it jitter between two values constantly. Also, merasmus spawncamping on Brimstone is just plain annoying. Please do something to stop it. @Void Skull: BADWATER IS MY FAVOURITE MAP, WHY? Why would you ruin that for me? I can't unsee this! :ohno:

[QUOTE=rolfum;51344827]both brimstone and hellstone seem like a complete clusterfuck of halloween gimmicks all mashed into one map, which is incredibly unfun to play in[/QUOTE] Meanwhile Maple Ridge is a Normal map with Pumpkin bombs on it No Bosses or Underworld or even Random ghosts like on Harvest Just a Boring Halloween map

I actually appreciate that about Maple Ridge. After having to play on stuff like carnival, and the "stone" maps, it's nice to play a normal halloween themed map and not have to deal with obnoxious spells.

last year I played one of the new halloween payload maps and thought it was a boss clusterfuck, but fun if that's what you're in for that said, I haven't touched any halloween payload this year and had a lot of fun on maps like sinshine and eyeaduct instead halloween is best in bursts

Contracts have visible kill dates now. The date's not a huge surprise, but they're visible. [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/151262938608524815/06B56B8376577D193E11203041BF83DADDB97896/[/t]

[QUOTE=DrCactus;51346157]I actually appreciate that about Maple Ridge. After having to play on stuff like carnival, and the "stone" maps, it's nice to play a normal halloween themed map and not have to deal with obnoxious spells.[/QUOTE] Instead, now you're dealing with the obnoxious sniper sightline this entire map is.

Late as hell but even Ghost Fort has the problem of Merasmus walking into spawn rooms

[QUOTE=Void Skull;51344648]True, but they're used with TF2's appearance in mind. And while I'm sharing screenshots, here's an example of multiple themes being used without transition in one single area. Manor's wallpaper, a circus poster, a lava Hell pit, Spytech consoles, and an overlooking industrial area. It doesn't read as a cohesive theme palette. [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/586461/Models/2016/20161109191731_1.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Brimstone / Hellstone are the ugliest maps in tf2, they are basically just a theme-less mismatch of stuff with a bunch of bosses and gimmicks slapped on top of them.

[QUOTE='[Square];51346660']Brimstone / Hellstone are the ugliest maps in tf2, they are basically just a theme-less mismatch of stuff with a bunch of bosses and gimmicks slapped on top of them.[/QUOTE] Don't be so mean, you'll break his heart :( Seriously, at least don't throw shit at him.. Saying the theme doesn't match would've been enough, calling it the ugliest map of tf2 (regardless of if it is, or not) is outright being a dick.

[QUOTE=quake84;51347234]Don't be so mean, you'll break his heart :( Seriously, at least don't throw shit at him.. Saying the theme doesn't match would've been enough, calling it the ugliest map of tf2 (regardless of if it is, or not) is outright being a dick.[/QUOTE] not really? the brushwork seems mostly meh and the artpassing is just "there" for standards of a map actually being in the game, it sort of falls flat and to me at least feels like the brushwork belongs in a gold source game, and the art pass of a trade map. edit: i thought you were talking about hellfire rip

I just realised that unless they are going to push out the Pyro Update on the 16th, that that will be the first time we'll see a clean Main Menu without Update announcements or special backgrounds.