Major Update Speculation V35 - A Distinctive Lack of Communication - Games

[QUOTE=goofio;51471713]What do you think this year's festives will be? I'm guessing that there will be decorated versions of some unlocks, and you will also receive festivizer tools for those unlocks. I think repeating stock festive weapons again would not be very popular...[/QUOTE] I'm hoping for some old-style festive. They were so unique and creative, and were much more appealing than the decorated weapons. But combing them with decorated weapons? All the skins looked like a mess honestly. The 2014 ones were classy and pretty sweet. Take a look at the festive Bonk! and SMG. Those were pretty slick looking

[QUOTE=GuntMyFries;51472209]I'm hoping for some old-style festive. They were so unique and creative, and were much more appealing than the decorated weapons. But combing them with decorated weapons? All the skins looked like a mess honestly. The 2014 ones were classy and pretty sweet. Take a look at the festive Bonk! and SMG. Those were pretty slick looking[/QUOTE] Even the Bonesaw was really clever. It took me a bit to notice the striped blood pattern on the saw itself. :v:

i'm still waiting for my festive fists

[QUOTE=GuntMyFries;51472209]I'm hoping for some old-style festive. They were so unique and creative, and were much more appealing than the decorated weapons. But combing them with decorated weapons? All the skins looked like a mess honestly. The 2014 ones were classy and pretty sweet. Take a look at the festive Bonk! and SMG. Those were pretty slick looking[/QUOTE] Even if we do just get festivizers I hope that we get new weapon reskins this year. Getting just festivezers for the same old weapons we got from Gun Mettle and Tough Break would be a little disappointing.

[QUOTE=averygoodname;51472509]i'm still waiting for my festive fists[/QUOTE] Accompanied with tiny bloody glass shards sticking out of 'em

really hope valve decides to put a "no cosmetic" option so i dont have crap fps

What would really be nice if they made it possiable to turn off the effects on unusual's they can easily tank your fps.

Mannpower really needs some changes, just had a game that lasted well over 4 hours, some guys were accusing most of our team of cheating, everyone in the server was triggered, and at the end instead of GGs literally everyone was like thank god kys all.

[QUOTE=goofio;51471713]What do you think this year's festives will be? I'm guessing that there will be decorated versions of some unlocks, and you will also receive festivizer tools for those unlocks. I think repeating stock festive weapons again would not be very popular...[/QUOTE] If they do skins again this year I hope they introduce some actual winter/festive themed options and no just random stuff again. From someone who collects festive skins for four of the classes ( Heavy, Spy, Medic and Pyro currently ), I'd personally want festive options for: Degreaser or Power Jack for pyro, Fists of Steal or Tomislav for heavy, Le'tranger or Kunai for Spy, Kritzkrieg for medic. Yeah I know I'll get flack for this, but I don't care, I even have a strange Kritzkrieg already. Maybe a Festive Ham Shank if possible, since Hams are a pretty traditional food for Christmas. I kind of want them to be a bit more fancy though then just putting lights on them I will admit. The lights are cute, but I think some of the other options were a lot more interesting to look at. Like the Eyelander's festive skin, the flaregun or medic's crossbow.

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;51473848]Festives.[/QUOTE] Personally i think they should only have subtle touches as well as the lights. Festives like the black box and the crossbow went in my opinion overboard (Dont get me wrong, i like the crossbow but it got so much attention when some just didnt) The flare gun though is a good example.

[QUOTE=Nebrassy;51473712]Mannpower really needs some changes, just had a game that lasted well over 4 hours, some guys were accusing most of pur team of cheating, everyone in the server was triggered, and at the end instead of GGs literally everyone was like thank god kys all.[/QUOTE] do you not realize tf2 was not designed to have hooks and powerups tf2 was also not designed to be a game of handball either. they're never gonna work these modes are just ""experiments"" like paint decals and vintages and mvm and like 50 other things

[QUOTE=Hell-met;51474345]do you not realize tf2 was not designed to have hooks and powerups tf2 was also not designed to be a game of handball either. they're never gonna work these modes are just ""experiments"" like paint decals and vintages and mvm and like 50 other things[/QUOTE] Still think the hook, if tweeked could be a decent spy gear piece. But definitely not how it is currently. Biggest issues being that it needs some sort of cool down, and disable the ability to latch to ceiling/walls indefinitely. I don't want to have to look up after every under pass I clear to make sure I'm not going to be raped by ceiling spies that drop down instantly lol. I've actually wanted Spy to have access to a grappling hook tool ever since Engineer got his hands on the wrangler, just because I never felt it fair that engineer now had the ability to totally remove sappers out of the equation by building in area's the spy couldn't reach on his own. I mean, if the sappers could server another purpose then I'd probably not care as much, but engineer buildings are the only thing they're good for, and to make it that you can't even apply them at all I felt was a little much. It'd probably have to be a watch replacement though, make the cool down tied to the watches cloak meter, and maybe make the spy go invisible during swings. Totally giving up invisibility would be way too hard of a hit, even for mobility options on spy IMO. But making it only good during swings would make it not a direct upgrade over stock. Interesting note though, just for the sake of it. Mega TF introduced a grappling hook for spy in previous games and it worked pretty well, which is why I feel that if done right it could work in TF2 if love and care was put into crafting it as well.

I just hope the Pyro Update finally tackles the Darwin shield Imagine working at valve, walking by an excel file with the stats on it and thinking "this is fine" I want this employee to finally change it

[QUOTE=Fluury;51475326]Imagine working at valve, walking by an excel file with the stats on it and thinking "this is fine" I want this employee to finally change it[/QUOTE] If they walk by and think it's fine, why would they change it?

The hook is so infuriating because in order to chase a player who's bullshitting his escape away from you, you have to have the hook out, which means you can't reasonably hurt them (and god help you if they have any sort of regeneration ability)

[QUOTE=ambaxtoxin;51475576]If they walk by and thinks it's fine, why would they change it?[/QUOTE] eventually even they will realise its broken, no?

I never could quite comprehend precisely why people were infuriated with the Darwin's Danger Shield. After all, it only really impacts the Sniper vs. Sniper meta.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;51475959]I never could quite comprehend precisely why people were infuriated with the Darwin's Danger Shield. After all, it only really impacts the Sniper vs. Sniper meta.[/QUOTE] Thanks to damage fall off and how the sniper really works, it means it weakens his only real counter when dealing with him at actual long distance fighting. Besides sniper rifle, only the Ambassador is really good at killing Sniper's at really long range, and even that is effected by the shield. The better the sniper, the more transparent on why the shield is a problem. When it comes to a competitive scene with two really good snipers, the one wearing the shield is probably going to win majority of the fights, so unless the other sniper also puts it on, wearing or using anything else will place him at a disadvantage. Sniper is also one of the most powerful classes if you think about it. Because if he can see you, he can instantly deal bare minimal 150 damage to you in a blink of an eye even before you have a chance to really react if you think about it. This is why Aim botters jump to sniper normally, because of what he is capable of. I believe that's the generally reason why it's hated.

-snip-

[QUOTE=Hell-met;51474345] tf2 was also not designed to be a game of handball either. they're never gonna work [/QUOTE] Arguably TF2 was "designed" to have CTF, but Passtime is much better than that.

so is CTF an inherently shitty gamemode for TF in general, or is it much better in TFC than in TF2?

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;51476259]Thanks to damage fall off and how the sniper really works, it means it weakens his only real counter when dealing with him at actual long distance fighting. Besides sniper rifle, only the Ambassador is really good at killing Sniper's at really long range, and even that is effected by the shield. The better the sniper, the more transparent on why the shield is a problem. When it comes to a competitive scene with two really good snipers, the one wearing the shield is probably going to win majority of the fights, so unless the other sniper also puts it on, wearing or using anything else will place him at a disadvantage. Sniper is also one of the most powerful classes if you think about it. Because if he can see you, he can instantly deal bare minimal 150 damage to you in a blink of an eye even before you have a chance to really react if you think about it. This is why Aim botters jump to sniper normally, because of what he is capable of. I believe that's the generally reason why it's hated.[/QUOTE] Yeah, pretty much - imagine two equally good Snipers, both of whom have a 50% chance to win in a quickdraw. The DDS Sniper now gets TWO chances at this, meaning his winrate went from 50% to 75%. And that's not even usually what happens: DDS Snipers who get headshot just tend to run behind cover and get health, then try again. The worst part is that there's nothing involved, no skill, just equipping the item is enough (same problem for the Razorback, but it's not like the DDS gets destroyed if you get headshot, or something). [editline]5th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Contra132;51476954]so is CTF an inherently shitty gamemode for TF in general, or is it much better in TFC than in TF2?[/QUOTE] TFC has many more movement options for every single class, so it's a bit better there because there's a better chance of catching up with people. CTF can sort of work, but it's only in small groups and specifically designed maps for that (Turbine Pro isn't that bad), but it really tends to just become an awkward 5CP where after capping last you're running back to your base instead and your team holds mid.

I don't remember who pointed this out (it might have been in this thread), but fun fact is that the DDS doesn't have an actual downside. Even with the explosive damage vulnerability, Sniper still has the same effective health (125) that he had against explosives before. With the bullet resistance + health boost, his effective health is much higher- around 175, iirc. The only real downside of the DDS is the SMG, but Sniper isn't exactly meant to be played at close/medium range. When played with Sniper as he's meant to be played, at a safe distance, it's a straight upgrade in every way.

The real downside is not having Jarate or the Razorback, which are also strong as hell. Which doesn't sound great, balance-wise :v:

[QUOTE=Tinker;51476944]Arguably TF2 was "designed" to have CTF, but Passtime is much better than that.[/QUOTE] i would love to hear a more detailed explanation on why you think passtime is better than ctf

[QUOTE=Hell-met;51477068]i would love to hear a more detailed explanation on why you think passtime is better than ctf[/QUOTE] Through the ball's dispenser effect, the marked for death, switching spawns, and the fact that you can see everyone your team on the HUD it forces teamplay which is non-existent in CTF, which tends to just be a TDM. Even on Valve servers people seem to have a vague sense of moving forward in Passtime, which just never seems to happen in CTF. I'd actually be super interested to see Passtime played competitively, with dedicated teams, and see how it plays out. It's pretty dynamic and interesting but community servers rarely run it and Valve servers are Valve servers.

[QUOTE=Tinker;51476961]TFC has many more movement options for every single class, so it's a bit better there because there's a better chance of catching up with people. CTF can sort of work, but it's only in small groups and specifically designed maps for that (Turbine Pro isn't that bad), but it really tends to just become an awkward 5CP where after capping last you're running back to your base instead and your team holds mid.[/QUOTE] I'd say things that slowed down the game, mostly engineers were a lot easier to deal with in the older franchise as well. Most classes had access to grenades that were good at dealing with nests and people in general at close range. Engineer got a few buffs in TF2 to make him more formidable at holding his ground as well. For instance, Dispensers never gave health in previous games with the exception of Mega TF, which was a fan created mod ontop of the original QWTF. Dispensers also didn't actively health and supply you with metal and ammo as well, you had to bump into them to bring up a menu, then manually pick from "give ammo" or "give armor". So maintaining a sentry constantly was more difficult as you had to stop wrenching your building if you ran out of metal. Also, Dispensers weren't upgradable, only the Sentry was buildable to Lv3. Allowing Engineers the ability to pick up buildings and move them also made running engineer a lot easier when they implemented it into TF2. Now I could build a sentry near a metal source outside of my dispenser and then move everything when it was fully upgraded. No teleporters would be the last big thing, which makes safely moving long distances with hauled buildings a lot easier when set up. Over all though, I do feel that maybe with some tweeks CTF is still possible to be viable in TF2 regardless. I feel the design of the map is a huge factor in wither or not the map works well or not. Having spots where engineers can set up and be effective, but not make them so impenetrable that it feels like a chore just to even attempt to get the flag, placements of spawns, flags and capture points, and so forth. A Lot of new factors that go in that aren't present in other game modes because they're not needed. Also, in the case of smaller games ( 6's ), to keep it interesting you'll have to limit routes and ways to the flag. Too many, and each team will probably have to full time at least one engineer or another player to stay defensively full time to keep scouts from just going around the enemy, grabbing the flag and hauling it back. [QUOTE=Tinker;51477134]Through the ball's dispenser effect, the marked for death, switching spawns, and the fact that you can see everyone your team on the HUD it forces teamplay which is non-existent in CTF, which tends to just be a TDM. Even on Valve servers people seem to have a vague sense of moving forward in Passtime, which just never seems to happen in CTF. I'd actually be super interested to see Passtime played competitively, with dedicated teams, and see how it plays out. It's pretty dynamic and interesting but community servers rarely run it and Valve servers are Valve servers.[/QUOTE] I'm actually in the same boat. The one thing I feel passtime needs is a set up on how many of each class can be run. Like a sports tea, team that consists of members who all have different roles to fill and I think it could be run pretty well competitively. Good starting point might be Highlander, since there's already a cap for each class and 9 vs 9 might be a good amount of players for the game mode. From there they can see if there could be a better set up that works out better and experiment from there.

I still think you could adapt 6s into a CTF format by banning Engineer entirely and placing 1-class limits on Heavies and Snipers. That in itself would do wonders for the flow of a CTF map, imo.

[QUOTE=Contra132;51477235]I still think you could adapt 6s into a CTF format by banning Engineer entirely and placing 1-class limits on Heavies and Snipers. That in itself would do wonders for the flow of a CTF map, imo.[/QUOTE] I'd be more concerned about Scouts in 6's CTF... If they can get to the flag, they don't even need to approach the enemy team. Unless the map is really straight forward where the scouts have to run into the enemy team to get past them, then maybe it could work. But if the map has too many alternative passways to get around them then scouts would probably be a problem in low manned ctf matches. Engineers also keep those scouts in check as well. Passtime kind of proves this point too. If there's no engineers defending, the game quickly turns into a Scout only match, as their mobility makes them a royal pain to deal keep up and deal with when they have the jack. They could possibly make Mini's required to run Engineer perhaps? Since mini's are a lot more easier to deal with and don't generally slow the game down as much perhaps?

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;51477240]I'd be more concerned about Scouts in 6's CTF... If they can get to the flag, they don't even need to approach the enemy team. Unless the map is really straight forward where the scouts have to run into the enemy team to get past them, then maybe it could work. But if the map has too many alternative passways to get around them then scouts would probably be a problem in low manned ctf matches. Engineers also keep those scouts in check as well. Passtime kind of proves this point too. If there's no engineers defending, the game quickly turns into a Scout only match, as their mobility makes them a royal pain to deal keep up and deal with when they have the jack.[/QUOTE] well the thing is, if both teams are running scouts + the usual intel outlines/arrows are in play, scout can be intercepted by other scouts, soldiers or high-mobility classes as soon as you add engineers to passtime or ctf, it becomes horrendously slow. barring engies and encouraging high mobility classes keeps things fast-paced- I don't think I'd play this on 2Fort, granted. Doublecross, Turbine or Landfall all seem better suited for faster CTF.