Artifact - The Dota 2 Card Game - Games

[QUOTE=knifekeeper;52556753]No they didn't, don't be a tool.[/QUOTE] Valve higher ups literally won't let the TF2 team have any more full-time programmers because the Dota 2 team would get jealous.

[QUOTE=SirGentlemann;52556742]Half-Life died and TF2 became starved for this.[/QUOTE] No, they died on their own way before this. I doubt they were going "shit guys we should make a dota card game" a near decade ago for the former and around Dota 2's release for the latter.

[QUOTE=CyclonatorZ;52556759]Valve higher ups literally won't let the TF2 team have any more full-time programmers because the Dota 2 team would get jealous.[/QUOTE] How is it relevant at all? TF2 team won't get more programmers, Dota 2 team won't get new programmers. Valve mostly doesn't hire "[I]Insert game[/I] programmers", they hire people that are flexible. If anyone at Valve that's not working on TF2 wanted to work on TF2, they'd go and work on TF2. They didn't hire 50 people or something to "develop Artifact", they didn't forcibly take TF2 developers to go and work on Artifact.

i'm excited to see a cool card game. i hope its super fun and able to let you use out of box creative decks kinda like how yugioh does with certain loadouts.

[QUOTE=SirGentlemann;52556742]Half-Life died and TF2 became starved for this.[/QUOTE] even the Popeye movie died for this, those scumbags

The thing that is annoying me about all this ~drama~ is all the people crawling out of the woodwork to say that Dota 2 isn't a real game and they should go back to making real games. I mean come [I]on,[/I] just because you don't like Dota 2 doesn't mean they should just drop Dota 2 dead in the water and go do something you want. I mean, I'd love a L4D3, or another single-player game from Valve, but I don't groan everytime they do something for VR, or try to make an improvement to Steam, or update CS:GO, a game that I actively dislike. Maybe it's just that I've never been actively blown away by Valve's single-player games. Like, I could put it down to the fact I didn't properly play HL2/Episode 1/2 until well after they were absorbed by the design zeitgeist, but the games that have stuck with me more have been the multiplayer efforts; Left 4 Dead 1/2, Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2.

[QUOTE=sitoncio.dev;52556851]even the Popeye movie died for this, those scumbags[/QUOTE] The big, pink cookie died for this.

[QUOTE=knifekeeper;52556789]How is it relevant at all? TF2 team won't get more programmers, Dota 2 team won't get new programmers. Valve mostly doesn't hire "[I]Insert game[/I] programmers", they hire people that are flexible. If anyone at Valve that's not working on TF2 wanted to work on TF2, they'd go and work on TF2. They didn't hire 50 people or something to "develop Artifact", they didn't forcibly take TF2 developers to go and work on Artifact.[/QUOTE] that's kinda what he's saying. If they (the company/higher ups) cared about TF2's health they wouldn't just stand there hoping that a few programmers and artists care about TF2 enough to make content. If they cared, they'd hire "[I]Insert game[/I] programmers" and put workforce behind their existing IPs. Because of course if I got hired as a general programmer or something at Valve, I'd see the big team working on a shiny new project and I'd go there. I'd want a piece of the big cake. I probably wouldn't willingly go do small content updates for an old game. I'd learn more on a new project, I'd have more creative freedom, I'd make more friends on a bigger team, I'd get more credit for shipping a game instead of updates, etc.

I get what he's saying, but I don't get how it's relevant to the discussion. SirGentlemann saying "Half-Life died and TF2 became starved for [B]this[/B]" is what I have an issue with. Neither of those things happened in relation to Artifact. Not even close, really. It's just blind hatred. Even if "Valve higher ups literally won't let the TF2 team have any more full-time programmers because the Dota 2 team would get jealous", which is far from a great scenario, it's not related to the topic at hand.

Creating an entire new complex engine. The first non-demo game they make after that, is a damn card game. Bravo, Valve.

[QUOTE=knifekeeper;52557110]I get what he's saying, but I don't get how it's relevant to the discussion. SirGentlemann saying "Half-Life died and TF2 became starved for [B]this[/B]" is what I have an issue with. Neither of those things happened in relation to Artifact. Not even close, really. It's just blind hatred. Even if "Valve higher ups literally won't let the TF2 team have any more full-time programmers because the Dota 2 team would get jealous", which is far from a great scenario, it's not related to the topic at hand.[/QUOTE] After 6 years of nothing and considering the latest spat of increasingly anemic content for TF2, are you really that confused at why people are a little upset that the first thing we get after a long dry spell is a card game? If this was a big production, something that looked work intensive and deserving of what seems like a lot of Valve's attention and was worth the wait for new Valve content, people wouldn't be angry. But it's a card game. Resources at valve, which they even admitted were stretched thin, were devoted to a card game.

[QUOTE=Jetamo;52556993]The thing that is annoying me about all this ~drama~ is all the people crawling out of the woodwork to say that Dota 2 isn't a real game and they should go back to making real games. I mean come [I]on,[/I] just because you don't like Dota 2 doesn't mean they should just drop Dota 2 dead in the water and go do something you want. I mean, I'd love a L4D3, or another single-player game from Valve, but I don't groan everytime they do something for VR, or try to make an improvement to Steam, or update CS:GO, a game that I actively dislike. Maybe it's just that I've never been actively blown away by Valve's single-player games. Like, I could put it down to the fact I didn't properly play HL2/Episode 1/2 until well after they were absorbed by the design zeitgeist, but the games that have stuck with me more have been the multiplayer efforts; Left 4 Dead 1/2, Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2.[/QUOTE] I agree with this. Dota 2 is simply another avenue to learn about content creation and the engine (from my viewpoint, as a prospective game developer). Sure, HL and all the other franchises are great. But Valve wouldn't be Valve if they didn't release something completely unexpected. There's no good reason to vilify Valve for working on something that clearly a lot of people love and have fun playing (including Valve). Sitting in an echo chamber with others who despise Valve for not making a "proper game" since Portal 2 doesn't really help anyone. What's more, this just shows that Valve has grown tired (or lacks inspiration) with the HL/L4D/TF2 franchises. It won't make sense for them to put time into something they just don't feel like working on, because it ends up with poor results (See MYM TF2 update, 4 years in the works only to get shat on by the community and bring down the morale of the TF2 dev team.).

[QUOTE=ToyokaX;52557351]I agree with this. Dota 2 is simply another avenue to learn about content creation and the engine (from my viewpoint, as a prospective game developer). Sure, HL and all the other franchises are great. But Valve wouldn't be Valve if they didn't release something completely unexpected. There's no good reason to vilify Valve for working on something that clearly a lot of people love and have fun playing (including Valve). Sitting in an echo chamber with others who despise Valve for not making a "proper game" since Portal 2 doesn't really help anyone. What's more, this just shows that Valve has grown tired (or lacks inspiration) with the HL/L4D/TF2 franchises. It won't make sense for them to put time into something they just don't feel like working on, because it ends up with poor results (See MYM TF2 update, 4 years in the works only to get shat on by the community and bring down the morale of the TF2 dev team.).[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jetamo;52556993]The thing that is annoying me about all this ~drama~ is all the people crawling out of the woodwork to say that Dota 2 isn't a real game and they should go back to making real games. I mean come [I]on,[/I] just because you don't like Dota 2 doesn't mean they should just drop Dota 2 dead in the water and go do something you want. I mean, I'd love a L4D3, or another single-player game from Valve, but I don't groan everytime they do something for VR, or try to make an improvement to Steam, or update CS:GO, a game that I actively dislike. Maybe it's just that I've never been actively blown away by Valve's single-player games. Like, I could put it down to the fact I didn't properly play HL2/Episode 1/2 until well after they were absorbed by the design zeitgeist, but the games that have stuck with me more have been the multiplayer efforts; Left 4 Dead 1/2, Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2.[/QUOTE] I think you both are equating the annoyances some have pertaining to the fact that Valve has released nothing for 6 years and instead of some big thing that looks innovative and technically impressive they release a digital card game to people being mad at DOTA. I don't know anything about DOTA, it's a moba, has a lot of characters, looks great on Source 2, and is popular. I'm not mad at DOTA, I'm not mad that valve has a big foucus on DOTA due to the money it brings in. I'm not mad that this isn't a Half Life game or a new L4D or a portal or a TF2 Update. This could have been a VR exclusive and had it had a lot of new mechanics, good writing, impressive graphics and it was technically innovative, people would have been like "Wow, 6 years well spent, there seems to be a lot of work put into this new thing because it's big and seems worth the time that little else was created by valve." But a card game, regardless of the IP it's based on, doesn't "wow" me. It doesn't seem innovative, or work intensive, or pushes the medium or the technology.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;52557328]After 6 years of nothing and considering the latest spat of increasingly anemic content for TF2, are you really that confused at why people are a little upset that the first thing we get after a long dry spell is a card game? If this was a big production, something that looked work intensive and deserving of what seems like a lot of Valve's attention and was worth the wait for new Valve content, people wouldn't be angry. But it's a card game. Resources at valve, which they even admitted were stretched thin, were devoted to a card game.[/QUOTE] A Dota card game announced on a Dota 2 tournament? What a surprise! I can see why people are upset. I don't understand, however, why people choose to be tools and pretend like they have the rights to review the game based on the teaser. It's a card game, sure. But what in the world is so bad about that? If it's a good game, it's gonna be a good game. Regardless if it's the dreaded cards. [QUOTE=Johnny Joe;52557382]But a card game, regardless of the IP it's based on, doesn't "wow" me.[/QUOTE] Tough luck.

[QUOTE=knifekeeper;52557431] Tough luck.[/QUOTE] Sorry for having expectations. It's almost like when a company that made a name for themselves by creating games that pushed the envelope of the medium and set trends takes a major leap backward and makes a digital card game years after the trend started that maybe some people think it's wasted potential especially when this is the first thing to be made after more than half a decade of radio silence. But once again, sorry for expecting a video game company to make video games.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;52557435]But once again, sorry for expecting a video game company to make video games.[/QUOTE] Is a digital card game not a video game? Are Turn Based Strategies glorified board games? You can always set yourself new expectations. Like maybe this card game will push the envelope of card games. Again, we literally know nothing of the game but the logo.

[QUOTE=knifekeeper;52557458]Is a digital card game not a video game? Are Turn Based Strategies glorified board games? You can always set yourself new expectations. Like maybe this card game will push the envelope of card games. Again, we literally know nothing of the game but the logo.[/QUOTE] Like I said, if this came out after a big production, I wouldn't give a shit. Hell, they could have pulled an Orange Box and shipped it with a newer, bigger title as a surprise stocking-stuffer like Portal. But this is not the thing people want after 6 years of hoping big things were happening at Valve. Could this be the next big card game? If it is, that's great, I hope the people who play it love it. Give us something more that this. This is the bad part of Valve's shit PR and silence. 6 years of nothing but hinting at new tech (VR, Source 2) implies something BIG was on the way, something new and universally interesting. A card game might be the best card game but it's still just a card game.

So they still might announce them at a later date. Big deal. Announcing a Dota-related game on a Dota tournament makes perfect sense. I wouldn't recommend getting this excited for every little announcement, you're just setting yourself up for a let down.

[QUOTE=knifekeeper;52557479] I wouldn't recommend getting this excited for every little announcement, you're just setting yourself up for a let down.[/QUOTE] A brand new Valve title after 6 years is not a little announcement and you know it. Stop being so obtuse.

I've got a lot to say but I'm gonna keep it brief enough for clarity sake Valve has been interested in the idea of a trading card themed game for a [I]fucking while now.[/I] like [URL="https://steamcommunity.com/groups/tradingcards/"]https://steamcommunity.com/groups/tradingcards/[/URL] 2013 kind of interested. I've known a brand new card game was in development at Valve since roughly of November of last year, when I heard murmurs from 2 separate sources that something was being done with cards as the primary theme. This came as little surprise, Valve has wanted to do something TCG related since like, 2013. Steam Trading Cards were supposed to be a bit more involved than they ended up being, and what they originally had in mind for it was shelved early on into the development cycle for them, but the name and general aesthetic stuck around. Couldn't tell you why now of all times ( or I guess some time last year ) was when they decided to finally pick up the sticks and get this old workhorse going again, but, here we are. Dota 2 was not the inspiration for this, more... a means to an end You need an established world of reasonably matched character elements and events for a card game, yeah? Setting, story, world, characters, actions, special attacks, modifiers, character types, actions, consumables, spells, traps, environments. [B]Dota 2, with that context, is the perfect easy choice[/B]. And why wouldn't it be? Why potentially stow the project away AGAIN in an attempt to create the perfect game world for it all to take place in if you've got the absolute perfect fit for that? Dota 2 has all of that and more, countless heroes with abilities and types and classes and spells and special attacks and modifiers and history and counter heroes, it just works out. Hope that... kinda makes sense to some of you guys. I know a lot of people are really, really, [B][I][U]REALLY[/U][/I][/B] disappointed, and gosh, I can't stop you from being so, but, at least consider for a moment that this is something Valve has wanted to do for a while, because, well, they [I]have[/I].

Well give this thread about 3 weeks or so and I think it'll be useable when people stop whining about Valve not making the games they want

[QUOTE=Jetamo;52556993]The thing that is annoying me about all this ~drama~ is all the people crawling out of the woodwork to say that Dota 2 isn't a real game and they should go back to making real games. I mean come [I]on,[/I] just because you don't like Dota 2 doesn't mean they should just drop Dota 2 dead in the water and go do something you want. I mean, I'd love a L4D3, or another single-player game from Valve, but I don't groan everytime they do something for VR, or try to make an improvement to Steam, or update CS:GO, a game that I actively dislike. Maybe it's just that I've never been actively blown away by Valve's single-player games. Like, I could put it down to the fact I didn't properly play HL2/Episode 1/2 until well after they were absorbed by the design zeitgeist, but the games that have stuck with me more have been the multiplayer efforts; Left 4 Dead 1/2, Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2.[/QUOTE] is anyone saying that dota 2 isn't a real game?

[QUOTE=ThatSprite;52557590]Well give this thread about 3 weeks or so and I think it'll be useable when people stop whining about Valve not making the games they want[/QUOTE] Do you genuinely think that's the only reason people are disappointed by this reveal? A card game is fine, I'm sure there are plenty of people who will enjoy it. But the timing of this is so bad, just plain unawareness to the max.

if you can't understand why people are slightly disappointed when presented with a situation which looked like they were getting a new IP from a company whose original content is revered, but in fact, were getting a dota 2 card game (a genre to which multiple people have compared kart games), then i think you're being intentionally obtuse. the game might be sick as fuck and do something that other people haven't, but i think everyone in that arena had the right to groan

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;52557638]is anyone saying that dota 2 isn't a real game?[/QUOTE] Yes, many people seems to think this. I honestly thing that even CS:GO is a real game, though people keep saying the last one was Portal 2...

Is this the Source 2 debut title we've all been waiting for?

[QUOTE=Chuggoth;52557418]"Hemorroid cream game"? Isn't OP supposed to be neutral or at least a little bit more subtle ?[/QUOTE] It's postal or some other mod editing titles

I'll admit I'd be interested in the game if they somehow managed to tie in the Steam Trading Cards we already have into it.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;52557382]I think you both are equating the annoyances some have pertaining to the fact that Valve has released nothing for 6 years and instead of some big thing that looks innovative and technically impressive they release a digital card game to people being mad at DOTA. I don't know anything about DOTA, it's a moba, has a lot of characters, looks great on Source 2, and is popular. I'm not mad at DOTA, I'm not mad that valve has a big foucus on DOTA due to the money it brings in. I'm not mad that this isn't a Half Life game or a new L4D or a portal or a TF2 Update. This could have been a VR exclusive and had it had a lot of new mechanics, good writing, impressive graphics and it was technically innovative, people would have been like "Wow, 6 years well spent, there seems to be a lot of work put into this new thing because it's big and seems worth the time that little else was created by valve." But a card game, regardless of the IP it's based on, doesn't "wow" me. It doesn't seem innovative, or work intensive, or pushes the medium or the technology.[/QUOTE] I wasn't talking about Artifact, I was talking about Dota 2. Many people (especially here) have made it clear and obvious that they don't consider Dota 2 a "real game", despite it being the most popular and most played game on Steam (and a great game to test Source 2 on). Although I am also a fan of Half-Life and the other franchises, I'm not so quick to judge and shun something Valve has made simply because I don't like it or don't find it interesting. Call me a Valve fanboy, if you will. I appreciate what they make, even if it doesn't really interest me (like VR). They are, even after 20 years, still trying to explore different avenues of software (and hardware) development. Yes, they will make mistakes. They learn very quickly, thanks to the community. But sometimes you just have to sit down and be humble, and see where something goes before immediately jumping the "OMG WHY IS VALVE DOING THIS" Bandwagon that people find so fruitful. [QUOTE=Thatrandomuser;52557511]I've got a lot to say but I'm gonna keep it brief enough for clarity sake Valve has been interested in the idea of a trading card themed game for a [I]fucking while now.[/I] like [URL="https://steamcommunity.com/groups/tradingcards/"]https://steamcommunity.com/groups/tradingcards/[/URL] 2013 kind of interested. I've known a brand new card game was in development at Valve since roughly of November of last year, when I heard murmurs from 2 separate sources that something was being done with cards as the primary theme. This came as little surprise, Valve has wanted to do something TCG related since like, 2013. Steam Trading Cards were supposed to be a bit more involved than they ended up being, and what they originally had in mind for it was shelved early on into the development cycle for them, but the name and general aesthetic stuck around. Couldn't tell you why now of all times ( or I guess some time last year ) was when they decided to finally pick up the sticks and get this old workhorse going again, but, here we are. Dota 2 was not the inspiration for this, more... a means to an end You need an established world of reasonably matched character elements and events for a card game, yeah? Setting, story, world, characters, actions, special attacks, modifiers, character types, actions, consumables, spells, traps, environments. [B]Dota 2, with that context, is the perfect easy choice[/B]. And why wouldn't it be? Why potentially stow the project away AGAIN in an attempt to create the perfect game world for it all to take place in if you've got the absolute perfect fit for that? Dota 2 has all of that and more, countless heroes with abilities and types and classes and spells and special attacks and modifiers and history and counter heroes, it just works out. Hope that... kinda makes sense to some of you guys. I know a lot of people are really, really, [B][I][U]REALLY[/U][/I][/B] disappointed, and gosh, I can't stop you from being so, but, at least consider for a moment that this is something Valve has wanted to do for a while, because, well, they [I]have[/I].[/QUOTE] Basically this. Also, Brad Muir was hired around 2015 and apparently had been working on Artifact for a while. He sort of had some experience with turn-based stuff with his Massive Chalice game (which he was the core developer/creator of) so Valve probably saw the opportunity and hired him the first chance they got. If Artifact wasn't something *a lot of people* at Valve weren't interested in, it would have never made it outside of Valve's offices. But clearly the effort and want for a card game was strong enough that we know it definitely exists.

[QUOTE=aurum481;52558400]It's postal or some other mod editing titles[/QUOTE] It's kind of a dick move. Nobody cares if you don't like the idea of the game, let us have our thread. Unspoiled.