TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP
8,672 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53098612]
Notes: Black spots are doors. Basically, the idea is that you can basically go from your second to enemy last, but you'll get spammed out because you're in way low ground. But the option is there. This would allow a team to theoretically go back to their spawn and uber into the enemy second, or an attacking team to uber into last from their second. Blue and red boxes are spawn/forward spawn.
Elevation is made in such a way that the standard 5cp flow still occurs for cautious teams that don't like getting spammed out, but for the brave teams, powerful flank potential exists (Getting your second pushed? Go through the enemy second and flank from mid! etc).[/QUOTE]
you should map this out in hammer with blocks instead, 2d maps like this serve very little purpose in terms of what might or might not be fun, mostly because fun is weighed out far better in terms of what's going on geometrically in a map than the overall 'shape.'
it's interesting to note however, that having powerful flank routes isn't necessarily good for game flow, and actually, too many flank routes is one of the most prevalent reasons maps fail in 5cp 6s, assuming you are talking about 6s
for instance, this map would be very susceptible to getting backcapped because on 1 and 2 there are 3 different areas to cover, which is mostly impossible. Place icons on this map of where you might try to backcap from, then look at the travel times of players covering that, these are things you have to think about when mapping.
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Now, I'm not trying to be rude or a jerk, if you are a budding mapper, I would suggest working out first what makes for an interesting choke and what doesn't, and then work out which lasts are good and why. This stuff is FAR more important than reinventing the wheel.
this is freaking weird because i can headshot better now because i use an anime character as my profile picture as a joke
[QUOTE=Mould;53098896]you should map this out in hammer with blocks instead, 2d maps like this serve very little purpose in terms of what might or might not be fun, mostly because fun is weighed out far better in terms of what's going on geometrically in a map than the overall 'shape.'[/QUOTE]
If I could remember how to do anything mapping related even after watching a long series of hammer tutorials, I might be willing to put effort into making an actual map. But it's difficult enough to theorycraft simple 2d images like this, much less take the 10s of hours required to make a map that might just get called "aids" in the first few hours of being released, keeping a person like me from ever getting a map looked at again.
[QUOTE=Mould;53098896]it's interesting to note however, that having powerful flank routes isn't necessarily good for game flow, and actually, too many flank routes is one of the most prevalent reasons maps fail in 5cp 6s, assuming you are talking about 6s
for instance, this map would be very susceptible to getting backcapped because on 1 and 2 there are 3 different areas to cover, which is mostly impossible. Place icons on this map of where you might try to backcap from, then look at the travel times of players covering that, these are things you have to think about when mapping.[/QUOTE]
The point of this layout was to simply address some of the problems that exist with 5cp (last stalemates where the attacking team is waiting outside of lobby on even ubers, waiting for something to happen). I can't make an actual map, I can only theorycraft. Couldn't a difference in cap time between the points deal with backcapping? Also, the short distance between the points was also created with offclasses in mind. A Heavy could easily protect second then push mid with this map, for instance. Et cetera.
[QUOTE=Mould;53098896]Now, I'm not trying to be rude or a jerk, if you are a budding mapper, I would suggest working out first what makes for an interesting choke and what doesn't, and then work out which lasts are good and why. This stuff is FAR more important than reinventing the wheel.[/QUOTE]
Right now the wheel is a bit stale. Are chokes good when a demoman can spam you out? Are lasts good when the team has to wait for something on even ubers to happen before trying to get in (these moments can last 3-5 minutes in matches I've seen)?
wish sniper had a noscope focused rifle :|
hunts is great and all but sometimes i just want hitscan practice without being dragged in sniper wars constantly
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53098987]wish sniper had a noscope focused rifle :|
hunts is great and all but sometimes i just want hitscan practice without being dragged in sniper wars constantly[/QUOTE]
There is an unused Sniper primary called the [URL="https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Walkabout"]Walkabout[/URL], attributes say it would have had a different charge rate, no headshots, and less zoom when scoped. Sort of like a noscope rifle if the zoom was heavily reduced
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53098944]If I could remember how to do anything mapping related even after watching a long series of hammer tutorials, I might be willing to put effort into making an actual map. But it's difficult enough to theorycraft simple 2d images like this, much less take the 10s of hours required to make a map that might just get called "aids" in the first few hours of being released, keeping a person like me from ever getting a map looked at again.[/QUOTE]
If you want I'll give you a hand with it, I don't mind too much. I'm already working on 3 different projects so I don't mind helping you out in building stuff or just advice.
Nah though I wouldn't worry about getting a stigma. People label maps but I've never seen someone be labelled by a map they made once. You have to be ok with losing time, but if you have time (like me :( ) the next map after that one always looks way better.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53098944]
The point of this layout was to simply address some of the problems that exist with 5cp (last stalemates where the attacking team is waiting outside of lobby on even ubers, waiting for something to happen). I can't make an actual map, I can only theorycraft. Couldn't a difference in cap time between the points deal with backcapping? Also, the short distance between the points was also created with offclasses in mind. A Heavy could easily protect second then push mid with this map, for instance. Et cetera.[/QUOTE]
How does your layout deal with this problem? Is this last particularly easy to push and what makes you think that would be the case?
A difference in cap time may deal with that problem ur right. So you increase the cap time on last so that pushing out is easier, but everything has knock on effects with maps, now you have a last where people don't have the ability to play the point, which makes it 100x harder to cap. Now usually you would change to geometry so that you could give teams something else to play for, like a piece of strong high ground to control post uber maybe? But that's something you really need a 3d to space to see, and [B]that's my point. [/B]
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53098944]
Right now the wheel is a bit stale. Are chokes good when a demoman can spam you out? Are lasts good when the team has to wait for something on even ubers to happen before trying to get in (these moments can last 3-5 minutes in matches I've seen)?[/QUOTE]
Not particularly, but that isn't the point. If you make a 5cp map how on earth are you planning on avoiding chokes, and it's impossible for you to avoid having a last. That's why you need to know what makes them good and how to build them well. There are good chokes and bad chokes, and good lasts and bad lasts, it's about adopting those parts that are good, getting rid of the bad bits and blending them with your own fresh ideas.
example of a good choke: badlands 2nd-mid choke
downside: the rest of the 2nd is not that excellent and is really fucking hard to push out of last to
example of a not as good choke: process 2nd choke
reasons why: it works essentially the same as bad choke except the defenders sit on high ground, which removes the ability to sacrifice and makes dry pushing harder.
example of a bad choke: gully 2nd choke (bigdoor much better)
reasons why: almost impossible to get through without using, hard to do much of anything without a pick
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example of a bad last: granary
reasons: very hard to get a good uber, easy to defend with uber, far too easy to push out of which incentivises teams to sit on 2nd and wait for picks.
upside: one of the easiest maps to push if you have uber ad
example of an ok last: snake
reasons: really terrible 'default' push, other pushes vulnerable to being locked down if reacted to, can be really easy or hard to push out depending on other team. This map is really good if the other team doesn't know what they're doing but is a total slugfest at high level
example of a good last: process
reasons: 3 push options which are all fairly good and are reactive to the pushing teams execution rather than the defending teams, easy push out with good strategy
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Next time you watch 6s, try to notice where the game hitches up, then think about why it might be. What would you try to do if you were stuck in this stalemate? Why do you think they aren't doing that? What changes to the map would you make to solve that? When you do that you're on your way to making something that might be better. Having a 2d layout to theory craft with isn't enough to make these changes that are needed.
That's why I would highly suggest that you dive in instead. It's not like you have to make your first map a 5cp one, the tf2maps community is really friendly, so why not try there for a while before you make the jump?
[t]https://i.imgur.com/q0uWR7n.png[/t]
In the 6 years I've been a part of this community, I never noticed what the disclaimer at the end of Meet The Demoman (at the bottom) actually said, until now...
just hit my 4000 hours mark. Feels neat that after that much time i just got into fiddling around with modding and texturing and stuff around the same time. I hope this game has a bright future and continues on greatly.
[video=youtube;0RL5uzyg-uc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RL5uzyg-uc[/video]
ik it's late
This [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7ug5kl/whats_everyones_favorite_tf2_weapon_based/dtk2au3/"]comment[/URL] mentions that the Force a Nature originally had "blown out" barrels. Looking at the weapon's update history on the TF wiki it doesn't have any model changes, was this a thing?
edit: added link
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53099176]This [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7ug5kl/whats_everyones_favorite_tf2_weapon_based/dtk2au3/"]comment[/URL] mentions that the Force a Nature originally had "blown out" barrels. Looking at the weapon's update history on the TF wiki it doesn't have any model changes, was this a thing?
edit: added link[/QUOTE]
he might be thinking of the early soda popper WIP otherwise FaN never had any alternate appearance
[IMG]https://files.catbox.moe/ortysv.png[/IMG]
Found this in a pub today.
Confused about three things:
A. Why is it not a green name with the community prefix?
B. Why is it listed as an "unusual effect"
C. How did the dude even get this?
[QUOTE=Fluury;53099234][IMG]https://files.catbox.moe/ortysv.png[/IMG]
Found this in a pub today.
Confused about three things:
A. Why is it not a green name with the community prefix?
B. Why is it listed as an "unusual effect"
C. How did the dude even get this?[/QUOTE]
[quote]The Community Sparkle Lugermorph was given to the weapon designers of Sam and Max that made the Lugermorph for TF2 and Poker Night at the Inventory. It was given as a Self-Made item (hence why it has the Community Sparkle effect). Community Sparkle Lugermorphs used to be untradable Self-Made Lugermorphs. When Poker Night at the Inventory was released to the public, all the previous Lugermorphs became vintage quality in order to differentiate the ones obtained from the Sam and Max promotion and the ones achieved from Poker Night at the Inventory. When this was done, Valve forgot about the Self-Made Lugermorphs, and they became vintage and tradable while still maintaining the Community Sparkle effect. Aside from it being extremely good looking, it had the Community Sparkle effect which can't be obtained on any other item unless you got an item added to the game or special Valve granted for something which is why it is super desired in the trading world of TF2. Currently, only 26 exist with most of them being duped ones because when they started being traded around, they got duplicated countless times.[/quote]
Also all particle effects are marked as Unusual Effect in the item description.
That'll be 250 keys thank you
Btw it's not worth the price imo only because you can't see the sparkle effect in first person. Used to own one and was very disappointed.
I had a screenshot a while back of me playing Medic with a Max's Severed Head for somebody who worked on the Sam & Max TTG games and was wearing their self-made Max's Head, on a stock server no less (back in 2011 before Quickplay). I'm still a huge fan of Max's Severed Head, but I hate how it's become "the one other cosmetic you use with a high-price unusual to show you're THAT willing to drop money on a video game's cosmetic system"
Apperently the fist of steels overheal negatives might not work.
[video=youtube;9Rf4XiGOaEo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rf4XiGOaEo[/video]
I mean, duh. You don't even have to play heavy to realize you can just put the things away and be overhealed before pulling them out for the damage resistance.
Remember, we waited 400+ days for shit that was found to be pointless in two minutes of play testing by us.
[I]Valve does not play the game.[/I]
So what do you lot thinks gonna happen on the 11th of February? I bet the Pyro (and Heavy) items will become random drops and craftable [I]maybe[/I] alongside a new weapon skin and/or cosmetic crate.
[QUOTE=Whomobile;53099439]So what do you lot thinks gonna happen on the 11th of February? I bet the Pyro (and Heavy) items will become random drops and craftable [I]maybe[/I] alongside a new weapon skin and/or cosmetic crate.[/QUOTE]
A blogpost saying that Valve extended the Jungle Inferno campaign by 2-3 weeks and lowered the price!
[QUOTE=Big Snake Bos;53099362]Apperently the fist of steels overheal negatives might not work.
-video-[/QUOTE]
Oh goodness, this is practically the same issue I had when I was coding the Fists of Steel overheal debuff to only apply when the weapon was active like on the Balance Changes blogpost back then (instead of on wearer, like the current iteration is, but admittedly coding that would be easier).
Although overheal-related attributes technically work, the mediguns don't seem built for overheal changes done on the fly and they're finicky to work with based on my own experience, though I'm sure the -40% health from healers should at least be easy to code... I'm not sure how they struggled to code these attributes considering they're not working properly, but hopefully it's fixed soon enough.
[QUOTE=Kincaid1;53098347]A crutch is a weapon which is good when bad players use it, but good players DON'T need it to be good. Some historical crutches are the Black Box back when it gave 20 health per rocket regardless of damage, the Loch-n-Load when damage spread existed and it could one-shot light classes, and the Machina, which is still a crutch, but also used to be able to one-shot 175 health classes with damage spread. Crutches are underpowered and needless in the hands of a sufficiently good player.[/QUOTE]
While this oft-repeated assertion may be accepted as gospel among the TF2 community (particularly the echo chamber circle jerk that is tf.tv and /r/truetf2) the truth is this is not how the English language works.
Outside of the medical device, the most common used definition of the word is: [url=https://www.wordnik.com/words/crutch]"Something that supports, often used negatively to indicate that it is not needed and causes an unhealthful dependency"[/url] or, phrased differently, [url=http://www.thefreedictionary.com/crutch]"Something on which one depends, often excessively: a mnemonic crutch."[/url]
The first part "A crutch weapon is a weapon that makes bad players better" is spot on, if properly expanded. For example, "Crit-A-Cola is used as a crutch by low skills players enable their continued use of poor habits and preventing them from developing their skills in the game." The same is true for the pre-nerf Half Zatoichi and the legion of bad demoknights who relied on it.
The issue here is the second qualifier "makes good players worse." Again using the example of Crit-a-Cola, it is both a crutch weapon used by bad players and OP AF in the hands of skilled ones. Also, there is nothing to say that a skilled player could not use a weapon as a crutch to keep them from further developing their abilities as well: "[This weapon] makes good players worse by encouraging bad game habits." It is increasingly less likely the more skilled they the player is, of course.
I think regardless of the specific definition of "crutch" one uses, the Machina is OP and not a crutch. It's a straight upgrade in most situations and there is a very good reason it's banned from competitive Highlander (I think it might be banned in Sixes as well?) A skilled sniper with get the same amount of headshots as with stock, and be able to deliver more bodyshot damage and collateral kills. A bad sniper sniper will do the same, with fewer headshots.
[QUOTE=Fluury;53099551][MEDIA]https://twitter.com/IceFrog/status/958912324030554113[/MEDIA]
:v:[/QUOTE]
Maybe this is a valve-wide thing?
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53099765]Maybe this is a valve-wide thing?[/QUOTE]
[media]https://twitter.com/IceFrog/status/958912350035181568[/media]
doesn't seem to be, at least for now
Who is IceFrog and can anyone give me context on this?
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53099816]Who is IceFrog and can anyone give me context on this?[/QUOTE]
Dota and Dota 2 lead designer. Never worked on anything else at Valve.
[QUOTE=Drury;53099823]Dota and Dota 2 lead designer. Never worked on anything else at Valve.[/QUOTE]
So how is this related to tf2?
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53099827]So how is this related to tf2?[/QUOTE]
Not at all. It's a dota jealousy post.
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TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP
