TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP
8,672 replies, posted
I think if there is an internal argument about crits at valve and they are not sure about removing them entirely they could at least make them more predictable instead so crits will be a part of strategy and will more naturally fit the game's flow instead of rng that basically can flip everything upside down anytime. Like, make them depend more on damage/accuracy etc etc, give them some sort of a cooldown so if somebody missed a crit you know he won't crit for certain amount of time etc. If they don't want to remove them entirely i think that would still be better than the system in place.
New players needing to rely on luck is a bullshit argument.
Nothing wrong with asking questions but based on earlier observation on effectively everyone else who has had their turn on this random crits ramble, many of your replies to them were just unnecessary questions and when you have a whole bunch of replies that are nothing but "why X" it really gives me the impression that you're just taking the piss out of me and not out to actually debate the subject you brought up
I never said that all you do is ask "why", just said that you ask that question a lot. I'm not even the first to point this out, you've had quite a number of people say the same thing and the same song and dance plays itself like a tired waltz
But for the sake of changing tune a bit: You've made your opinion pretty clear on the random crits and how they should not be removed. Why? Should they be kept because they've been there since launch?
I'm not really speaking about the merit of that point right now, just the technicalities.
I think that you can't really rely on crits in most cases, only melee crits really get a high enough chance to be reliable.
at this point I just want the fucking update so we have something to talk about that isnt freaking random shits
I could have missed something but do we even have any idea what the update could be about?
The medal distribution will be increased from 1,000 to 5,000 for Titanium Tank. Source and facepunch link
7vs7 One day EU Tournament medals, TT medals being distributed to everyone, and Journey to the East medals. Source
The inability to spectate buildings in casual and the bug where spectator presets didn't work in casual will be fixed. Source
They later said "Update on this: We’ll be able to fix this for Casual mode, but for Competitive mode players can only spectate other players on their team." Source
The Community Sparkle effect will be shown on weapons in first person. Source
Post Source
"I built that."
Also sigsegv explained why the Machina shoots multiple tracers, source
Yeah, actually, as it turns out, the Machina tracer beam is commanded to be drawn both by the server (during the authoritative hit detection) and by the client (during the client-side weapon prediction). So that would account for why the player doing the shooting can sometimes see at least two beams.
I don't know enough about client-side prediction to be able to say whether, under the right circumstances (certain movement and/or network conditions), it would re-predict the same shot multiple times (to end up with e.g. three total tracers drawn by the client rather than just one); does seem plausible though.
Why do I not want random crits removed? I like them.
"Why should random crits not be removed?" is a different question. It's not really the right question to ask.
Why is that?
It is a more nebulous question, which makes it hard to answer. Like asking "why shouldn't this be changed?", it's too open to give a good answer to.
So how do we support the statement "this shouldn't be removed?"
You could show that it's a good thing. However what makes a something good is something subjective.
You could show that it isn't a bad thing. You could say "Show that there are no problems with random crits", but that is not feasible. This is because of it's broad scope in addition to you having to prove a negative.**
Another thing is that for discussions to work well you need to assume that stuff should remain in the game by default. Stuff can get weird if you assume stuff should be removed from the game by default, it is metaphorically "guilty until proven innocent".
In general you should ask "why should it be done?" instead of "why shouldn't it be done?".
I'll show a lack of one issue anyways:
"Random crits are fair and balanced." This statement is true. Well, in a specific sense. They are a "fair mechanic" sort of like how a(n idealized) coin flip is a "fair game" in game theory (which also doesn't take into account player skill). Everybody gets the same power to get crits.
**Proving a negative is easier when it is in a narrower context. It's (relatively) easy to prove you didn't rob a specific store at midday on a specific date, it's pretty much impossible to prove that you never robbed a store in your life.
when did community sparkles stop rendering in first person? that was literally all the mojo of it. Must have been a recent bug.
It never rendered in first person Im sure.
That's from A Boojum Snark's "Ultimate Mapping Resource Pack".
all these lines of words and there wasnt one line where you explain why it shouldnt be removed from your perspective other than "everyone has the chance to get them" which is stupid since if everyone has a chance to get them then there'd be a chance that one person receives crits every time and other person never gets any, so its not a fair mechanic in practice even without player skill scaling.
Never rendered in first person.
For the love of god stop responding to him.
but that's wrong. I was there when community guns were added in the game and it worked. Could be the c_models that broke it.
Well, but in buggy as hell way, which was removed after pretty quickly. Community weapons didn't have sparkles in first person for at least three or four years.
I'm not asking "why should random crits not be removed" to enforce a "keep it or ditch it" scenario but the wording on that may be a bit poor. It was merely to get some idea about your opinions on them and to have something to kick things off with.
People don't like random crits because they're a bit of a double-edged sword: you can have a giggle about blowing away a group of people with them or you can be one of those people being blown away (and as most of the threadgoers have made clear, they don't like something that impactful being decided by a RNG factor whenever you fire your weapons)
Personally, I find it a guilty pleasure: There's something incredibly amusing about having an entire push stopped by a single glowing pipebomb, that's how they've kept the whole thing going for the last 10 years the game's been out, imo. They said something like that in the dev commentary, IIRC.
They did address people's gripes about them back then and added the option to remove random crits alltogether via server command while still keeping them on the 'regular' game, since valve probably sees the random crits as TF2's thing?
What determines whether or not something should be removed comes down to the effects is has in gameplay, at least from my point of view:
To give a good example, see the launch versions of both the Sandman and Natascha. Stuns and slows were not particularly fun to the receiving end, especially since the Sandman is a rather fast projectile and could stun through Uber while Natascha's slow was a flat movement penalty applied by a hitscan weapon that fires 4 bullets per 1 ammo it uses.
No, valve didn't remove the Sandman nor the Natascha from the game. They just did re-tooled both weapons until they not as awful for the guy on the other end (the Sandman took a long time to lose the stun that made it such a problem while the Natascha turned into a situational tool) and they did the same to random crits at one point. They did throw away the Sandman's stunning mechanic alltogether and Jill has reportedly said to be on the side of removing random crits. Knowing valve, either nothing is going to come out of that or they just retool the damage values like they did earlier, who knows?
I miss when said guns had a damage bonus.
would you agree to never talk about crits if I give you a key?
At this point we should just ignore ASIC and go on with speculation,pretend he is a ghost.
But nobody can seem to comprehend this admittedly complex and challening concept of if you don't reply to ASIC, then there won't be a discussion for him to have in the first place
So this fucker is something else. In addition to being a wall-hacking scumbag who could see me invisible when I was playing spy, he's also impersonating a UGC highlander player. His profile claims he's the alt of Rainy, but there's plenty of red flags indicating otherwise. He's clearly used an achievement idle server to cheat the majority of his 520 achievements, his inventory is set to private, and he doesn't have any comments on his profile. He also has massively inflated stats, including over 1000 points as Sniper and 300 backstabs as Spy without dying (the real Rainy only has a record of 14 backstabs, and he was a spy main in highlander). However, when I fought him, he was playing Heavy and Solider, and was fairly terrible at both. His aim with the direct hit was especially awful at long range, and as Heavy he never bothered to check behind his back when attacking other players. My only question is what other cheats he might be using - I'm certainly curious if he really does know to rocket-jump as well as he can, considering his soldier skills overall were abysmal.
Because pocket heavy dominates team deathmatch, which, surprisingly, is not the point of capture the flag.
You can dominate the whole server but if your Intel gets capped, well, you lose the game and die to crits.
Not If you don't allow them to.
Engineers already do that, with the 5 sentries in every Intel room. Everyone else is relegated to TDM while a plan gets figured out on how to break the hold.
And playing solo heavy there really sucks. As you're a big, slow target that isnt very good at intel carrying and can be rushed down from every angle. Or, you help defend like your class role says, and you basically sit around doing nothing like a sentry gun already does, except you're a human wasting your computer time waiting for enemies to show up in your base that never do.
Because they're all outside playing TDM. Pocket heavy/having teammates that don't just run around looking for enemies to shoot is a lot more fun, except that's actual teamwork.
Which we all know is a fictitious concept in casual these days.
I ask in all seriousness, are you sure?
His profile: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198085423249
His SteamRep page: SteamRep » drivin solo. | 76561198085423249 | STEAM_0
Using SR's Steam64 search I found his UGC page: UGC League Gaming
His logs.tf page: https://logs.tf/profile/76561198085423249
Lastly, his HLStats pays for Mic Sobs (the server group I run): http://micsnobs.com/hlstats.php?mode=playerinfo&player=228895
I can't comment on his gameplay one way or another, but much of what you describe sounds like the use of SAM (Steam Achievement Manager) to unlock achievements and strange farming servers.
His stats on MicS are decent but nothing amazing. Hardly exception for a TDM-centric map like Harvest. Compare him to this suspicious AF character I got a complain about yesterday: http://micsnobs.com/hlstats.php?mode=playerinfo&player=273571
KDR in excess of 10:1, nearly 2KPM.
I cannot say if the user you linked to is legit or not, but based on 4 years of combating cheaters as a community server admin I don't see too much that is suspicious.
https://twitter.com/TeamFortress/status/978734117134069762
huh, that's new
TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP
