TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

[QUOTE=qubestf2;53099827]So how is this related to tf2?[/QUOTE] It's a trial run that re-evaluates a lesson learned within the first year of TF2's post-release development: major updates lead to game exposure and player spikes, whereas small regular updates do not. If the trial run ends up with the expected result, they'll return to their original strategy. Nothing new learned, but they confirmed what they did know. If there are unexpected results, it'll cause the devs to revisit their update strategies, and it will likely impact the TF team as well.

[QUOTE=Drury;53099832]Not at all. It's a dota jealousy post.[/QUOTE] Not entirely. If this development approach has positive outcomes for Dota 2, we might see it spreading to other games along the line - including TF2. Of course that is the best case scenario, but the chances of the TF Team stopping the "6 month drought then fucking throw a massive amount of content at people* approach are atleast ever so slightly higher than before. Afterall once something becomes successful in Valve, it usually spreads to other games and development teams (The entire Case/Lootbox/Crate system, Matchmaking System for comp(CS:GO has a phone one, TF2 has one, etc.) - Developers go from game to game, talk to eachother.

The last time they rushed an update shit was scary. They're not going to go back to that again for a long time regardless whether it works out for the dota team or not.

I don't think TF would be much more popular to work on if CSGO or Dota 2 didn't exist, Valve would focus more on different games if they weren't around edit: I've been having some localzation issues so I deleted all the files in tf/resource, but I saw some new files there: "tf_proto_obj_defs_language". I opened the english one and saw it has a list of war paints, including some unused Mk 2's Red Rock Roscoe Sand Cannon Psychedelic Slugger Purple Range Sudden Flurry Barn Burner Liquid Asset Pink Elephant They appear alongside the regular old style skins, with the prefix (unused)

[QUOTE=Drury;53099866]The last time they rushed an update shit was scary. They're not going to go back to that again for a long time regardless whether it works out for the dota team or not.[/QUOTE] I dont seem to understand your thought process here: How does "Smaller content updates on frequent basis" equal rushing updates?

[t]https://i.imgur.com/9P7IKCB.png[/t] love it when the system works

To add: those updates are for gameplay changes. They're also seeing if it's more effective to balance in regular increments, rather than in huge sweeping changes once in a blue moon. I'm interested in what they'll learn from this one.

[QUOTE=Blade Rx69;53099939]To add: those updates are for gameplay changes. They're also seeing if it's more effective to balance in regular increments, rather than in huge sweeping changes once in a blue moon. I'm interested in what they'll learn from this one.[/QUOTE] They'll likely learn that the playerbase likes the consistent content more, but since massive spikes of players aren't rushing in every update, they'll stop doing it because they care more about the $$.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;53100077]They'll likely learn that the playerbase likes the consistent content more, but since massive spikes of players aren't rushing in every update, they'll stop doing it because they care more about the $$.[/QUOTE] Dota 2 makes so much freaking money it doesn't matter whether they do big updates or frequent ones

Dota 2 could theoreticaly keep valve afloat even if tf2 and csgo somehow died.

[QUOTE=Big Snake Bos;53100169]Dota 2 could theoreticaly keep valve afloat even if tf2 and csgo somehow died.[/QUOTE] Valve has steam, there is no end to the amount of money they have access to

[QUOTE=Fluury;53099926]I dont seem to understand your thought process here: How does "Smaller content updates on frequent basis" equal rushing updates?[/QUOTE] Problem is you can't state you're going to try at more frequent updates and then not deliver.

[QUOTE=Drury;53100195]Problem is you can't state you're going to try at more frequent updates and then not deliver.[/QUOTE] They can barely have major updates have working changes,i dont think rapid updates are going to improve their testing efficiency.

[QUOTE=Big Snake Bos;53100212]They can barely have major updates have working changes,i dont think rapid updates are going to improve their testing efficiency.[/QUOTE] Exactly. Their deadlines can't get any tighter than this.

Is Lazarus the least well optimized of the new maps? I keep dipping well below 60 fps into the 50 range on crowded mid fights, whereas everything's fine on the other maps and older ones? And here I was thinking that TF2's performance would stop deteriorating when I got a new PC in 2014, gaming hardware SEVEN YEARS more modern than the game... Also, the map suffers from similar 'not properly unpacked assets' issue that Watergate has/had, right? The first time I load the map, it's fine, the second time the map loads in the same TF2 session, I'm getting these weird white or black lines and ripples onscreen.

Dota has a large playerbase, their best interest is to keep their players playing, not attract new players

I strongly believe valve actually thinks constantly having new maps is super important and takes priority over everything else. it used to be the same pattern even for MvM. rather than invest in old assets/maps they just force themselves to re-invent the wheel each time (and that obviously takes an enormous ammount of time)

Dota is in an endless three-way struggle agaisnt heroes of the storm and lol. if they drop it once, chances are people will just simply flee somewhere else. tf2 is still running its own race.

[QUOTE=Drury;53100195]Problem is you can't state you're going to try at more frequent updates and then not deliver.[/QUOTE] I still dont understand your point. Perhaps a tight schedule like "every 2 weeks" might not be able to be kept up, but simply saying "Yo dudes we will stop doing SUPER BIG UPDATES and instead focus on smaller, medium-sized updates which are more frequent" isnt that big of a deal? [QUOTE=Hell-met;53100280] it used to be the same pattern even for MvM. rather than invest in old assets/maps they just force themselves to re-invent the wheel each time (and that obviously takes an enormous ammount of time)[/QUOTE] And this is something they seriously need to stop doing. Reinventing the wheel every single fucking time. There is nothing wrong with just doing something again, hell, Kirby games have been the same for several years with minor/mediumish changes and they are still all fun and amazing. You've got the wheel, now build the bike instead of fucking off to build yet another wheel.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;53100280]I strongly believe valve actually thinks constantly having new maps is super important and takes priority over everything else. it used to be the same pattern even for MvM. rather than invest in old assets/maps they just force themselves to re-invent the wheel each time (and that obviously takes an enormous ammount of time)[/QUOTE] You mean official maps? I doubt well get one after Mercenary Park for a while and the workshop takes care of all their map needs

[QUOTE=Metaru;53100293]Dota is in an endless three-way struggle agaisnt heroes of the storm and lol. if they drop it once, chances are people will just simply flee somewhere else. tf2 is still running its own race.[/QUOTE] I'd argue that while those games are all of the same genre, they all play pretty differently. The core audience of Dota is probably less likely to jump ship, same as the core base of TF2 hasn't shifted over to any other class based shooter, despite the lack of updates.

I just realised that in the hadouken taunt kill description in the wiki it says that the pyro gathers chi Anyone else find that odd?

[QUOTE=Big Snake Bos;53100413]I just realised that in the hadouken taunt kill description in the wiki it says that the pyro gathers chi Anyone else find that odd?[/QUOTE] Can't find that.

[media]https://twitter.com/DOTA2/status/959127864279842816[/media] now THIS is a dota 2 jealousy post

[QUOTE=Fluury;53100450][media]https://twitter.com/DOTA2/status/959127864279842816[/media] now THIS is a dota 2 jealousy post[/QUOTE] this is just unfair

Wow it's almost like dota 2 is a larger team

[QUOTE=Zadrave;53100553]Wow it's almost like dota 2 is a larger team[/QUOTE] working on a newer game with fewer bugs and better balance running on a better engine and with a bigger and more demanding audience. Truly surprising it gets more updates.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;53098612]So, in the TF2 Facepunch Discord, me and a few other people were having a massive conversation about map design, what is and isn't satisfying (under said context), non-linearity vs. linearity in maps, etc. And biggest of all, the problems with 5cp. So I decided to create a map layout (missing: props, in-room walls, balconies, a difference between open doors and shutter doors, etc) that attempted to fix some of the problems with 5cp. [t]https://i.imgur.com/RkLhLz1.png[/t] Notes: Black spots are doors. Basically, the idea is that you can basically go from your second to enemy last, but you'll get spammed out because you're in way low ground. But the option is there. This would allow a team to theoretically go back to their spawn and uber into the enemy second, or an attacking team to uber into last from their second. Blue and red boxes are spawn/forward spawn. Elevation is made in such a way that the standard 5cp flow still occurs for cautious teams that don't like getting spammed out, but for the brave teams, powerful flank potential exists (Getting your second pushed? Go through the enemy second and flank from mid! etc).[/QUOTE] [t]https://imgur.com/ynLNJzp.jpg[/t] I took a few minutes to do a quick elevation layout to figure out the scale and whatnot, and then jumped around in it. The way I see it, making this 5CP while keeping it balanced feels like it would just become Process but even more compressed with an even faster way from lobby to mid. The key to this would be figuring out where walls and doors could go to make it more balanced, but the nature of 5CP is linear. If it's too open, I think it would either get confusing or each fight would be lopsided in some way. I think it could be fun to play as a 5CP, but I don't know if it can fix the gamemode's problems while being so. I also wonder if it would be a fun KOTH map instead.

[QUOTE=Drury;53100568]working on a newer game with fewer bugs and better balance running on a better engine and with a bigger and more demanding audience. Truly surprising it gets more updates.[/QUOTE] you forgot the only thing that means anything to valve: it makes more money

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53100594]you forgot the only thing that means anything to valve: it makes more money[/QUOTE] DotA 2 always had more attention compared to TF2.