TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

HEY YOU GAMERS I HAD HEARD U LIKED WHEN S T A R UNDERSCORE PLAYS SOME TTEEEFF TWOO SO GO ON HERE TO WATCH HIM STREAM SOME EXTREME GAMEPLAY COOLZ BEANZ ye

Until Spy and Engineer are better, your solution is straight-up worse than 6s' pre-existing class limits. We should be using what works first and changing it from there, not implementing a bad solution and twisting shit around until it works. That's a backwards-ass process. Also, I don't mind making Specialists better in more situations, but your solution to the problem results in less diversity, not more. Hell, 6s' current class limits mean that all 3 of the Defense classes could be played while defending on Payload, which isn't possible under your system. They are also more fairly fought by being able to bring Sniper and Spy into play simultaneously, which also isn't possible under that system even though it might actually be viable (Scout wouldn't have much to do on a Payload 1st point with a lvl 3 in play).

Latest comp queue clocked in at around 34 and a half minutes.

Again, I think a primary class limit of 2 with a secondary class limit of 3 with only Medic being restricted to 1 would be much more preferable than what I put in that sketch, because the class limit in the sketch is a conservative easing into the other classes being useful. Also, people in 6s don't play payload. Besides, I thought you didn't want to "slow the game down" by having a limit of 3 on defense. Really dude?

It was a Turbine match over in less than five minutes. That queue time plus that kind of match would make 99.9 percent of players never tough comp again.

Again, I must ask: Have you played competitive TF2? Like, actually signed up for a league, played a few seasons, gotten to know what competitive TF2 actually has to offer? Because Competitive TF2 isn't a different game from mainline TF2, it's just streamlined to bring out the best that it has to offer. TF2Center lobbies aren't competitive experience. Get on a team and spend some time in the scene before dismissing all that it's done for TF2. I'm seeing a lot of condemnations of the current state of competitive TF2, and I'm pretty sure most of you haven't actually had the experience to justify that. TF2Center lobbies and random PUGs aren't anywhere close to the full experience- until you've played together with a team in a league, you aren't going to have a good understanding of how competitive TF2 actually works and plays. You're dismissing over a decade of work by the competitive community without having actually given yourself the experience to make that judgement, and I find that very disingenuous. Without the understanding of competitive TF2 that comes with experience, I don't believe you're in a place to condemn it or its meta.

Competitive TF2 is different. In 6s, the biggest skill you have to learn, that you NEVER had to learn anywhere else, is rollouts. If you try to play roamer because you like playing Soldier, and you're new to the game, you're going to get fucking destroyed by your team, verbally, because you can't rocket jump very well. I've played on jump maps for like.. 100 hours of my 2k hours in TF2, and I still can't do even basic roamer rollouts without completely fucking them up. Each class has such a specific, exact method of getting to mid that small errors could mean a complete loss. This is one of the reasons why I hate 5cp. Mobility is EVERYTHING.

I miss cactus canyon so much

who could have known being bad has consequences in a competitive match. you're supposed to train your skills in pubs until you're ready to level up.

I thought we were talking about this class limit being implemented into Competitive Mode, where Payload is played and my scenario would actually come into play. Also, I don't want to slow the game down by having a mandatory 1:1 Offense:Defense team composition, which is what your initial solution was. That full-Defense play in the scenario I mentioned can be reasonably countered by swapping out the 2 Scouts for Sniper and Spy, or maybe even one for Heavy for a full Heavy-Demo-Medic combo push into the nest. Additionally, I don't believe that Valve needs to "balance the core of each class until the current 6s meta simply doesn't work". The classes are fine as they are, 5CP is the problem. Play more than just 5CP and make the other gamemodes work better with a low playercount, then all classes are more viable more often and there's more than just a few viable class compositions.

careful what you wish for. "finalized" cactus canyon might turn out really terrible and everyone will miss the beta version.

There is 1 (2?) maps played in 6s that isn't 5cp. Product (Bagel?). It's not about playing non-5cp maps, it's about mappers making maps that work competitively that aren't 5cp. It just never happens.

I want my fully textured rd_asteroid, I yearn for space

The original Stage 2 was my favorite and that's what I actually miss, tbh.

I was on a break during that time and it got changed so fast it was already gone by the time I played tf2 again

99% of players won't learn how to do all those things. KOTH just needs to be the new standard competitive format, as it's the only map type besides A/D and Payload (neither of which have competitively viable maps) that's easy on people who don't know how to do things that the game never teaches you.

Yes, and that's an issue. Competitive Mode already partially addresses this issue by adding Payload and CTF to the rotation. What it's still missing is changes to those game modes to make them better for 6v6, but by having those game modes in play the Specialists get more time to shine because they aren't as overshadowed there. We need gamemode-wide changes for Payload and CTF to work with 12 players, not just new maps. What I'm saying is Competitive Mode should start with 6s as a base, but make improvements to the other game modes to fix 6s' key problem: the marginalization of Specialists. Payload suddenly makes Engineer, Spy and Heavy more viable. KOTH makes Sniper, Heavy and Pyro more viable. These game modes aren't played in 6s because they don't work as they are, but with Competitive Mode Valve can fix that.

then competitive isn't for these people lol. If anything the MM competitive is exactly the "training ground" those people would need if they ever want to get invested in real comp

I loved it when it had 3 stages, being the second one my favorite, then they removed it for "unbalance" and 3 years later no more word about it. It was such a good map.....

also OW's jump from casual to comp play is natural, the same rules apply between both modes - what changes is the level of commitment required from the player to actively progress between both. unlike tf2, where the entire comp meta was developed over the years.

The fact that MM isn't "real comp" is a problem.

The only people you can blame for that is the TF Team. Perhaps if they had actually made something comparable to or better than league TF2...people would actually be playing it.

They're in a weird place of not wanting it to be what 6s currently is but not actually trying anything that would... indicate a direction. Come on Valve, do something scary. Make Engineer overpowered, break Demoman's stickybombs again, break Sniper as a class, do SOMETHING that changes the game. Then roll back the things people really hate.

that existed before. It died.

too timid or too afraid to lack the manpower to roll such changes and react in time.

I don't get how these changes are hard to do. Can't you just... change attributes in a text file?

I just waited five hours (summed into two different play sessions of casual with competitive searching on the background) with my friend, only to get matched into two separate games of competitive capture the flag. Competitive Turbine gameplay that ends in five minutes. When are they going to fix this?

Dunno about everyone, but I'm not interested in playing in teams of six. A full server is way more fun for me and that's where I'll always play.

https://youtu.be/G3Pfa50laLw

They literally have to do nothing but remove turbine's name from the schema list of competitive maps or put two slashes in front of it so the game ignores it. Might be harder to remove the bad readying system from comp but probably isn't the hardest thing.