TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

I really want new achievements

It really is oddly satisfying watching as the confidence of a cheating sniper slowly melts and is immediately replaced with pre-school rage. As if insulting the players dominating you as you use aimbot cuz you can't aim proves you're a better person at all. Was a good match, great teammates that knew what they were doing, even got told to go back to Overwatch by the cheater.

The botkillers could definitely use some polish.

these are ideas and not predictions you know

Nerfing Scorch Shot would be the most satisfying nerf ever.

Balance ideas to make afterburn more threatening -Burning players heal 20% less from health packs and crossbow bolts, same penalty as medigun healing -Mediguns extinguish afterburn in two seconds instead of one -Jarate and Mad Milk aren't refilled by resupply cabinets

Yeah, as If Pyro isn't hell to play against already.

Afterburn's never been that dangerous afaik since the game came out, especially with all the ways to extinguish. There could be a third way to make Pyro viable, instead of buffing wm1 or combos, make Pyro king of debuffs with afterburn.

A heavy primary that works like the shields would work better for him that it does for demoman (hitscan range, 300 HP), and would turn Heavy into a proper berserker subclass that focuses on his secondary and melee weapons, along with the ability to do a short charge. Without a minigun, positioning is no longer part of his core and he can afford a small speed buff without him being broken in any given situation. This also means he can go toe to toe with a soldier and demo because they can't outmaneuver them as easily, and he's able to close the distance to either shoot or beat them to death. A 30% explosive resistance would ensure he would be able to survive encounters like that. Since heavy only has his secondary shotguns as a ranged option, they should have a bonus that stack on top of those weapons to further improve their performance in combat. His charge ability would be similar to that of the shield charge, but at half the distance. This would allow him to either bash his enemy for combined burst damage with the shotgun, or land a crit with the melee (which would synergize with weapons like the KGB for crit chains or critical shotgun blasts). Heavy Vest Primary +33% clip size to all shotguns +15% faster reload time +10% movement speed (261 HMU) +30% explosion resistance Alt-Fire: Charge towards your enemies and remove debuffs. Gain a critical melee strike after impacting an enemy at distance.

I've been wondering what the objectively best loadouts for each class are. I know most of the best choices are stock with some exceptions like the Boston Basher for the Scout's melee slot but it can't hurt to be sure.

Pyro doesn't need any buffs at all. When the flamethrower gets fixed, the class literally doesn't need any buffs/nerfs anymore, besides just balancing the unlocks.

then remove the extinguishers Lol.

I think it'd be nice if we could apply war paints to botkillers (even if you could only apply strange war paints)

Pyro still won't be viable in comp except pushing ubers, and buffed afterburn would likely be considered really annoying in comp, guess combos are the only way for a viable Pyro in comp.

If they buff Pyro just so It's viable in comp, you have to realize that It's gonna be too powerful in pubs.

DRiller said something about how they want classes to be more useful in comp, wish they would tell us if/how they want Pyro viable.

I understand people want Pyro in 6's, but as someone who played 6's for so many years, I just don't see it.

As said before, I much prefer Pyro as a flexible class rather than some generalist. If you bump his damage you only make his skill-ceiling lower to be effective. The Pyro I'd like to see is weaponry and loadouts that can be used effectively in specific scenarios so Pyro can always be ontop of the situation in a pinch. Assisting teammates in ways other classes can't do as effectively or at all. Unique ways to take on situations instead of the usual point and hold mouse1.

I just want the casual and comp sides of TF2 to be in harmony. I think a thing that sets TF2 apart from things like CSGO is that it works well both casually and competitively, it's a shame the sides grew so apart, guess because it took so long for Valve to officially support and balance around comp, and I hope they can bring the whole community together.

dunno what game you're playing but pyro is all of this.

How to effectively buff Pyro, without making him annoying/overpowered in pubs (not that that matters at all as pubs are irrelevant to balance): Increase flamethrower dps, but require more skill to output the maximum dps. I'm not too sure what it is now, but in my opinion it should be at least 200 (basically rocket launcher dps at a close-medium range). In response, make the hitboxes so tiny that you actually have to lead the fire, and those fighting the Pyro can effectively dodge the flames, but are punished for predictable movement (like all classes should be). Increase the power of afterburn. At the moment, afterburn is weak when you're barely brushed by fire, which is an amazing step forward. However, it still doesn't do much dps at maximum power. I think afterburn's maximum length should be 5 seconds, but the damage done by afterburn should range from the measly 8 damage from a couple of ticks, to something more along the lines of 160 damage if you're somehow hit by the flamethrower for a good 2 seconds without dying. And this 160 damage would happen over 5 seconds. Buff the Thermal Thruster. I only have three requests, really. The first would be to make Thermal Thruster a 4th-slot stock weapon, like PDA or Disguise Kit. The second would be to allow Pyro to use the second charge after using his first one, while still in midair, but make it so that every charge costs the Pyro 25 health. The third would be to make the Thermal Thruster much quieter, because as of right now, if you use it, everyone hears it and you're going to get destroyed the instant you hit the ground. Maybe lighten up on the particle effects too. Fix, rework, and balance ALL the weapons that give Pyro that "annoying" stigma. Degreaser (less a problem now I guess). Phlogistinator. Scorch Shot. Flare Gun (debatable). Detonator (also debatable). Getting hit with 10 seconds of afterburn from long distance is annoying. In my opinion it'd be better if the flare guns simply turned the afterburn you were currently getting hit by into minicrits or crits. There are also the weapons that are just silly or pointless in most situations, like Neon Annihilator, Third Degree, Hot Hand, and Sharpened Volcano Fragment. Fix airblast. It's in a better place now than it was before Jungle Inferno, but I feel like it could still be made less annoying, less easy to use, but simultaneously more rewarding. Like, instead of a single-click airblast that pushes enemies a significant distance, it could be charged by holding M2, automatically releasing at maximum charge (let's say it takes a second to charge). A rocket hit with around a maximum-charge airblast would, instead of being a mini-crit rocket, would be a crit rocket (it would be very difficult to time that properly). Rockets airblasted with spam-click airblast would do normal damage instead of mini-crits, and halfway-charged would be minicrits. Also, distance pushed by airblast would also be determined by level of charge. I want Pyro to have a high skill ceiling. Playing him is fun as hell, usually the only fun I have when I play TF2 nowadays, because, with his airblast and short-range power, I feel like I'm in control of the damage I take, and if someone gets the jump on me, I still have a chance of making it out alive.

160 dmg of afterburn within the time span of a KGB crit boost. yea sure

You know what'd be interesting? Apply the Contracts system to Competitive, but swap it out every day or week or so. Like, you get to choose one of three contracts; say you can pick Soldier, Demo, or Medic. And then you're locked in, that's the contract you're working with. But then the contracts could compliment the other classes that are available. A condition for the Soldier contract could be "Get X Kills While Being Charged by a Kritzkrieg", while the Medic could have "Get X Critical Assists with the Kritzkrieg". So that way you have people who are playing dedicated roles, all working towards gameplay goals that will naturally synergize with the goals of other players. So now even if you end up forced to solo-queue (or you can't get a full 6 stack and are forced to play with some randos), it's all the more likely you'll be on the same page. And then if you complete it, you get a little somethin-somethin. Maybe a War Paint for the class you were playing, or a handfull of weapons. Then Valve could have a paid version that allows you to potentially get hats and Stranges and Unusuals and whatnot. I've got like no reason to jump into Comp at the moment; the classes I tend to play don't show up that often in 6v6, it's almost impossible to schedule TF2 sessions with my friends, and there's literally nothing Comp has to offer me that I can't already have more fun with in Casual. If they want TF2 to be an eSport (at least, an eSport run by Valve itself), they need to incentivize people to take the leap into competitive play.

Given that pretty much every weapon in the game has greater dps than that, and given the skill you'd need to not miss enough flamethrower particles to give them that 160 afterburn... I'd say it's fine.

i think you were falsely led to believe afterburn is a primary means of attack, rather than some nifty extra. it's okay though you aren't the only one. (no issue with mvm btw)

Don't patronize me. The point is that 160 damage isn't a whole lot when you've already done... Let's say 400, going by my suggestion earlier of 200 dps. I think requiring 2 entire seconds of not missing a single flame particle to get that 160 damage is perfectly balanced.

And yet a single consistent, straight value of afterburn that everyone understands and unconsciously memories is still so much better.

I don't know of many people that thought letting Pyro get away with 60 damage by clicking in their direction was a good thing. The antithesis of skill, if you will. That's what people like me want to fix. You could just add a hud bar that increases as you start racking up fire damage without missing, indicating the afterburn you do to a given target, if you're so concerned about the damage your afterburn is doing. Or make it so that the amount of time that afterburn lasts never changes, only how much damage the afterburn does. In this instance, let's say 5 seconds is the maximum time afterburn lasts. From there, you would only have to look at the damage a single tick (half a second) does to know the total damage your afterburn will do. 5 damage per tick would be 50 damage total, etc.

Afterburn isn't something that needs a "skill index". Leading flames whilst trying to not die to ramp'd-up enemy weapons is enough of a input requirement. Not to mention you constantly contradict yourself about afterburn being useless but somehow too strong.

I've never said afterburn is too strong. I say that letting Pyro get 60 free damage (it's not a lot of damage) for clicking in an enemy's general direction is one of the reasons Pyro is the class with the lowest skill ceiling.