TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

Pubs complain about the most trivial things being too powerful. If they balance Pyro properly then it will be fine. Balancing around pubs is not balancing the game, it's dumbing the game down. If they don't want to die to a class they should focus on getting better, not asking for the problem to go away by the developer.

You buff Pyro so he's viable, but you also make him require more skill than he does.

What's the hardest custom MvM mission of all time? Gear Grinder was a bit easy, only the Coaltown one was hard and I was playing with some low tour players.

"very badly made" usually go hand in hand with difficult missions. so no there's no "standard" other than something well done and fun to play.

Haven't played MvM in a while except for Titanium Tank and today Gear Grinder, hope Canteen Crusher's missions are good Valve's decisions just make you say why No updates in years for a fun pve mode that must be profitable, why Bunch of weapons still don't have strange versions, why Extremely hard to get strange freelance (which like civilian you can't get out of cases) grade weapons, why Default settings haven't been updated since Gun Mettle, and things like default fov/viewmodel fov haven't been updated since release, why Mannpower, why

Hey, Threewave is pretty fun! If only they could optimize it better for TF2...

Threewave CTF wasn't really designed around classes though, which is the problem. It was a mod for the Standard Quake game...

Yeah I was originally going to say they made it because Dario Casali, one of the devs is a fan of the mode. It's not confirmed, but I believe Fluury had a theory the team had a "Mannpower guy" who updated the mode themselves. I think it's him because of the video of him getting mad playing Mannpower and kicking a pair of pubstomping Soldiers.

Had a hacker who got banned seconds after I reported him https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/216/b7069fd0-ff14-4dd2-b29b-abc9bf530b91/image.png thanks VAC

that message could've been faked, cheat programs can do that also @mountaindog , I haven't read your entire post yet but that bit about Pyro making you feel like you're more in control of when you take damage is very curious to me. I would imagine that playing Soldier, a class that allows you much more mobility and to choose your fights, would be a better pick for that. Or that Scout, a class built around being very fast and dodging people with superior movement, would give you that feeling. If I'm close enough to airblast someone, I'm already close enough to be meatshot. The blinding nature of flames also feels like a detriment to my ability to accurately monitor my surroundings while engaged in combat... What I'm asking is, what is Pyro providing in this regard that you aren't getting elsewhere?

Well, usually when I play Pyro it's on the infamous TDM Hightower server that Exor plays on. There are many corners in Hightower, and many players are Soldier or Demoman. My weapon loadout when playing there is Stock/Shotgun/Powerjack. It's very easy to go from healthpack to healthpack and stay relatively safe, punishing people around corners and reflecting projectiles to control my opponents' damage to me. If I die, it's because I found myself in the open against a Scout or a Sniper. Hightower doesn't require much mobility. And with Pyro, avoiding fights is merely running around a corner. It's not realistic. For some reason I get better k/d with a weaker class like Pyro than I do with Demoman, mostly because of airblast.

I do agree that it's crazy we haven't see Valve grab some community made MVM stuff and making an MVM campaign. I'm still convinced the reason that Mannpower was released in TF2 was because people were pissed that Snowplow wasn't in the End of the Line update, so Valve threw it in the Christmas update as a beta mode because that (along with the weapons that shipped with that update) was all they had to ship and try to make the community happy.

So, its only if you enter via the hugs.tf website? and not if you donate via scrap.tf?

Pyro as a class has three different skill ceilings, with the first one being the lowest of all classes to a point i dare to say he's a better entry point than soldier in some cases. the first one and the most obvious is the infamous w+m1, wich is often the entry point to anyone and that anyone can master in literal seconds of playing the class - the second skill ceiling comes exclusively from airblast and its uses offensively and defensively and its the first major skill ceiling any pyro main has to endure in order to effectively be a threat to anyone that isnt another pyro. airblasting efficiently not only neuters two out of nine classes, but also shuts down other class-based mechanics such as jarate or mad milk. the third skill ceiling is also the most overlooked one - the ability to work on all three fronts as suport, defense and attack. given that she is basically the jack of all trades you don't excel at neither role but you can work effectively as all three if you coordinate your efforts with the current objetive, either by disrupting a push, shuting down other support classes or hunting stray enemies. in none of these scenarios afterburn plays any kind of significant role. in fact the reason the gas pass is absurdly weak and pointless is because its main gimmick, afterburn, is the weakest debuff in the game and can be removed by almost everything, including other debuff-iducing items like jarate and madmilk at the same time their users engage you(even bleeding can last underwater). the only time afterburn will ever play any kind of significant role is when you see your enemy survived with less than 30HP in the kill cam and there are no medikits/medics/water/is not another pyro and you hear his life fading away with each tick until they die. the only thing pyro needs right now is to fix the damage rampup of the flamethrower so they can finally put the class aside and focus on heavy.

I do believe scrap.tf donations also count, at least for ToTH they have.

I don't think the team will make Jarate/Mad Milk not extinguish people, the faster cooldown on extinguish shows they want to keep the mechanic and think it's important enough to warrant not throwing it at enemies. Or they just think it's funny to throw piss at people to extinguish them

Hey, it's fun to play Mannpower once in a while if you're tired from regular TF2.

Isn't Mannpower practically dead at this point?

I thought they just didn't want spy to instakill light classes Im so glad you're not in charge of balancing the game

Thanks.

Still has players. And Pass Time.

therell be time for a comeback. Kinda like how overwatch does with it's Archives missions, i think there will be speacial events of the gamemodes like Mannpower, Passtime, Sd, and Medieval mode. And just like the Overwatch Archives missions, If they were to say have it always available, the gamemode would be dead after a few months. Set times where everyone can plan to come together to play those modes for a bit brings people in. It's just Mannpower and Pass time are gamemodes that arent able to last as long as A/D or Payload. Just my thoughts. Personally i dont play Mannpower cause it screws up my stats, but i remember during Quickplay times, it was a super great way to get newer players into the game, as it's lack of balance let kids be able to get power ups and have a chance against higher skilled players, thus letting them get some grasp of the game.

I don't like posts like this because I just don't really get what the problem is supposed to be. When you say pyro still won't be viable in comp, what exactly does that mean? You might argue well nobody in invite plays heavy but I mean isn't that just as irrelevant as nobody in OWL playing torbjorn? Unless you're planning on playing OWL or invite, which most players aren't, why does it even matter? If pyro or heavy were viable in invite it would just mean soldier or scout wouldn't be, is that better in some way? pyro and heavy are already viable in the competitive mode people might actually one day play, 99% of the tf2 community are not good enough to exploit these characters weaknesses, or the weakness requires communication, so a lot of the time they don't matter. Pyro destroys scouts soldiers and demos that aren't good enough to exploit him, which btw is still happening in mid+ games in actual leagues, let alone pure matchmaking. Meanwhile almost every player in the game is better off on heavy than any other class if you're looking to solo carry a MM game. I don't really understand why anyone would rather have pyro/heavy be good at the very top levels, and op as fuck in the games you'll actually be playing, rather than good in the games you'll actually be playing and sporadic use at top levels. Are we going to talk about how the current meta is built for speed and is propped up by class limits that will probably never be enforced by valve at any point? Will we talk about how scout and soldier get worse and worse as the number of medics increases, meanwhile pyro and heavy get better? Probably not, which is fine, but I mean, when you say 'nonviable in competitive' what you're actually saying is either 'nonviable in valve comp,' which is wrong, or 'nonviable in a 6s meta that artificially holds down the strength of the class' which the answer to that is just like cool but so what?? I guess the point is that saying that anything in competitive is nonviable is generally irrelevant and almost never constitutes a good point or argument about much of anything in terms of balance I don't think the fronts of competitive modes will ever actually unite to the point where the argument will make sense because: Nobody in the current league sphere wants the gameplay to degenerate down to stalemate city so class limits will never be lifted Valve will never implement class limits because they want to grow their own competitive mode and class limits would be like admitting they wasted their time No class limit leagues will not take off at any point This is also the reason why valve sanctioned competitive tournaments will probably never happen also the 6s community are killing tf2 faceit which is also a very cool bit of information SORRy post

for the record I don't agree with everything said here but your points regarding pyro and heavy are really on-the-dot also I wouldn't be so fatalistic about faceit, I see the discussion going on on tf.tv but it's literally only been a month since the platform finished launching, and it has seen some improvements since then. the main problem that I'm gathering is the inability to queue up for certain classes a la mix/pugchamp- particularly bothersome for higher-level players- while lower-level players like myself are fine with the lack of a role queue when it means that we can actually get into games in a reasonable amount of time. the system is flawed, but its issues are easily fixed imo. as long as there are players who aren't 6s gods but still want to experience a better matchmaking system than what what Valve has to offer, TF2PL will always serve a purpose.

"They" think Heavy and Pyro are too weak and deserve buffs.

In my opinion Heavy is only weak due to having very little situational flexibility when it comes to a change in weaponry or strategy from the enemy. This can be due to the lack versatility of his own arsenal, leaving him very reliant on a Medic to just stay alive from being a massive target. Every other class has weaponry they can switch to, to make countering certain classes or strategies a little easier. Heavy has next-to-none of this. And I don't like classing the Natascha as a good weapon due to how stupid it is, but it's the only primary Heavy has that counters something due to its design. As said many times before, it'd be a nice change to see Heavy equip something else that IS a Heavy Weapon. Something that takes a high amount of skill to wield effectively and isn't just a mindless gun to spray down a corridor.

The thing about Heavy is, he's weak without a medic and he's too overpowered with a medic.

As far as I know, it's either Teien's or Isolation's Expert missions (both designed to give you little money because fuck you/ the mission creator mains beggars soldier :^) ) but the Teien mission is really questionable because it's hard to the point that it's not fun to play at all (it's also why I hate the fact that Expert has no limit on the difficulty because it's called Expert much like people think that you can make really boring missions and call it Normal mode because it's meant to be easy) Isolation goes a bit on the same boat but I can't remember a damn thing about that mission since it was another mission that got exclusively run by the night crew (one of them being the author, too) I'd rather skip on beating the "hardest custom mission" and just focus on the other stuff because when people set out to make their missions the hardest, they often times turn the mission into something incredibly masochistic and just lets the guy who wrote it have an ego-trip about people failing his mission.

Heavy is essnetially a turret in a mobile as fuck game. He's a pub stomper but as soon as people are aware of where you are you might as well be dead. It also doesn't help the fact that Sniper is the most mechanically overpowered class in the game, and he counters Heavy hard.

Sniper can take any class out If you have absolutely 0 gamesense.