TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

I mentioned this earlier in the thread about this new glicko matchmaker and got bombed for it, with people saying it doesn't happen to them anecdotally, but valve needs to get the matchmaker to realize that a couple of very high casual level players, or veterans with a potato team is not equal to an enemy team of midlevel players. They will win every time. You might be able to clutch a 1v4 in csgo if you're that much better, but this clearly isn't the game they ported the matchmaker from.

Your statement about glicko was also an anecdote.

I hope they didn't just dump CSGO's casual matchmaking into TF2. CSGO's casual is a joke

Unfortunately, the root problem these reports have been describing is clearly not, and an obvious issue with the matchmaker. What, are you going to tell me that something is not a problem simply because it was repeatedly brought to the attention of the community via anecdotal reports?

I made this in response to this video: https://marketplace.tf/tools/loadout_autobuilder

it's almost as if the new matchmaker isnt fully enforcing 1:1 games given the queue times would be awful doesnt matter if pre-mm or post-mm, you'll always have bad games every now and then, and thats something no developer in the world can fix

I didn't say whether it is a problem or not. Now, what about all the anecdotal messages saying that that the matchmaker is not a problem?

Because with that pants-on-head ridiculous logic, one could make the claim that say, phishing isn't a problem because of all the reports of people not falling victim to it massively outweighing the reports actually of it. That and a lot of people really dont care about game balance or the matchmaker until it actually shits on them specifically. But i would be interested to see the amount of negative vs positive emails sent to valve regarding it.

Some people say the matchmaking system is fine and others say it is not fine. So how do you judge whether matchmaking has a problem or not?

"Do complains mean that something has a problem" yes, that's what complaints usually are there for, in case of matchmaking it's an improvement to the system before, just now people have a scapegoat. Then again I rarely see people complaining about the Matchmaker outside of the occasional post on fp

You missed the point. My point there is that someone can make a complaint about something, even if it doesn't have a problem. Complaints are not always valid. A simple example is this: someone can complain that the "The color red is bad for the game", but that doesn't automatically mean that the color red is bad for the game.

something being an anecdote or not doesn't necessarily mean anything and isn't the core defining reason why a complaint is or isn't valid, you need to evaluate complaints on their actual merit and check whether they make any sense. if someone has a complaint and you can see why it might happen then it's probably worth taking the complaint seriously rather than just dumbass whining. ex A - senseless complaint ELO hell - 'why does the system put me with all the bad/toxic players' this is a dumb ass complaint because there's no logical reason why the game would ever do this (unless its one of those toxic queue games in which case its justified behaviour) ex B - sensible complaint unbalanced matches - 'glicko system evens out top level players with equal or more amounts of first time players' this is a sensible complaint because this is logical mm behaviour and the behaviour is visible in multiple services

if the majority of people playing the game would complain that the color red is bad for the game, it would be an issue, given the majority of players are annoyed by it. Obviously this isn't the case with the matchmaker as - once again - there isn't a lot of complaints flying around compared to with pre-JI pyro or - you know, the other thing - but that's how issues are detected as this doesnt have anything to do with the original topic anymore, let's not go down the mental gymnastics spiral as the countless of times before and end it here, alright?

casgo has a casual mode? i though it was all about getting good.

CSGO casual has ten players per team, and everything costs half the money I think, more grenades per person are also allowed I think.

i genuinely though csgo was competitive only.but i guess the "casual" aspect of tf2 hardly overlaps with what "casual" is considered in other pvp games. csgo'ssounds more like "comp without rank drop"

casual in Tf2 isn't different from other FPS casuals at all. Casual in any game is always about "have fun and waste time", while competitive is about "improve and face strong opponents".

Competitive has always been to me having a higher desire to win because there's more at stake for me. You can still improve and face stronger opponents in casual as well as competitive because some people enjoy having that. But there's not much at stake if you lose so you are more free to experiment and try new things out in casual without as being worried about putting your team at a disadvantage and losing because of it. There's a bit more to it of course. But this is the general thought that comes to my head when I think casual and competitive.

it's very different, in that casual and comp tf2 are virtually different games entirely. casual tf2 has huge teamsizes and on-the-spot switching of literal hundreds of weapons, so thousands of class/weapon strategies. But it also features linear level design (payload, koth, basically you have a set goal that requires teamwork to achieve) which makes for a really jarring combination. The result is majority of the server treating matches like free-for-all where you can do what you want, and it will sorta help the team overall indirectly. Contrast this with any modern casual FPS. the map designs are linear/objective based, but team sizes are small, and coordination is heavily incentivized. They aren't "have fun time wasters", they are "have fun and learn the game". TF2 isn't "have fun and learn the game", it's "dick around and play how you want, no matter how bad your strategy may be"

CS:GO's Casual is a massive clusterf*ck.

You're mistaking "Modern Casual FPS" for "Modern Esports-bait games, namely Overwatch". Games that are designed with a competitive leaning in mind. There are dozens of FPSes that match TF2's design, because, much like TF2, they were designed to be a fun, casual game, first and foremost. The now dead Loadout, Quake Champions (or any old Quake or Doom/DN3D game), any Halo multiplayer, even PUBG and Fortnite have casual vibes to them. You boot up the game, hop into a match, and boom, you're in the action, you don't need a strategy or to set up a team to take it on, you're basically allowed to do what you want.

CSGO casual is not the same as TF2 casual. Loadout isn't an FPS. PUBG/Fortnite are irrelevant. Quake Champs (Quake in general) are specifically formatted for deathmatch play. TF2 is formatted for larger team play. Halo is the closest comparison you could make, and that's not much of a testament. In other words, TF2 casual is very different from other games. It is one of few to have a strange dichotomy between modes.

You're more than welcome to direct me to competitive FPS games beyond CS:GO and Overwatch where that actually applies. Also, I gave fine examples, PUBG counts even if you don't want it to, as do Halo and Quake Champions. Plus, I'd imagine COD and Battlefield are even more similar to TF2, I just didn't bring them up because I never played them. Modern games are chasing the Esports trend because they saw how successful some games, namely League, DOTA, CS:GO, and Overwatch, were when they got it right. The problem is, those games were a flash in the pan, and while long-term they're incredibly successful, they're a select few that actually succeeded, and most others inevitably fail. Also, I'm not reading surface level. I don't know what you're really trying to argue at this point. When you brush aside my entire point that casual FPS games exist and are still popular by saying "well Quake is about deathmatch", "well PUBG are irrelevant" and "well Halo isn't much of a testament", you're kind of shooting your argument and yourself in the foot, no?

Why does every casual server I join eventually crash?

dickheads planting bots that spam something that locks up the server

Currently experiencing an outbreak then, because I can't even get to class selection in 2fort servers.

your first mistake was playing 2fort

I can't take this game seriously anymore tho'

Is it bad that i prefer playing with expert bots than in servers with actual people? Also they fixed engineers not moving that gear up!

They actually implemented a "virtual mousepad" for bots to make them more fair, they can only move so much before stopping, like how real players would to move the mouse. They also implemented "aim slop"