TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

He'd brought it up before, it would be kinda pointless imo. You can just swing the knife to lose the disguise, it's not like people would continue buying it if you moved faster than intended anyways.

Double post because newpunch quotes are hard. Are you really implying that you have to have an uber to kill a Sentry? Really? Seriously? Please tell me that's not what you're implying. Please. I refuse to believe somebody would be that inept as to think that an immobile turret that requires turning to actually even target people in the first place, reveals its location if you're so much as on the same map as it, and has low enough health to be 2 shot by a Demo with pills and more than 0 eyes, can only be beaten with an Uber. Not a Spy? Not a Demo or Soldier out of range or cornering/edging? Not a Heavy with a Medic overhealing them?

I'd have to ask, why did it have to be 3x the health of sentries instead of 2x, which is still a pretty heft increase in it's own right. Medic's don't even give their patients 2x buffed health at all. Being able to freely control your sentry is a pretty huge perk in it's own right as you can now spam chokes and corners where people try to attack sentries outside of their site lines.

Uh, ok. The engineer has a team. He isn't working solo. Focusing your attention on a sentry eats up more time than it would to kill other classes because the engineer can actively heal it pretty well, and that's time spent not defending yourself from the other team's demo's/soldiers/spies/heavy-medics.

That's not true; Sentries can still do work without the Wrangler. It's just that with the Wrangler, they have become so much disgustingly more powerful. Also refer to your statement - Servers are 9-12 players in size. That also goes for the Engineer; a class that also gets protected by his team. That statement was not serious, but just a friendly jab at the fact that the Enforcer is actually kinda good at that given it penetrates shields. And yes, as I had already said, the Wrangler is too powerful against COORDINATION. A uber? That's coordination. But a Engie can just pop his 800 HP shield and woopsie, said coordination is worthless unless you are a heavy. Pop in his other teammates and him possible farting at it with the Rescue Ranger and you've got a Sentry that is too powerful against coordination, ubers, etc. - Sentries are a threat, but they aren't there to get kills. They are there to be destroyed and stall time - and while defensive tools are alright, the Wrangler is way too good at what it's doing atm. That's why its banned in Competitive(apart from the 6 player cap obviously). You are constantly thinking the Engineer is seemingly alone at all times?

So suddenly we're bringing the team into the discussion? When you ignored them by saying "the only thing that can deal with a Sentry is an Uber"? Where was the team then? Where was the Spy that could easily stab the Engineer while the Demo or Soldier focuses the Sentry to keep him occupied? Where's the Scout or Pyro running around behind the Engineer's control area distracting the Sentry's targeting? Where's the Soldier and Demo pressing m1 at the same time twice, and killing both the Engineer and the Sentry in less than 2 seconds?

Unless the soldier is running direct hit they're also pretty dogshit at taking down sentries if the engineer has even an iota of grey matter to take the bare minimum care of it.

Please try to think for a moment about how actual matches play. Sentries are used by teams on defense, in positions specifically designed to be defended. Defending teams usually have respawn rooms close, or set-up times to put down teleporters. Getting into the backline of a sentry-defended position usually means walking right into a big dense ball of enemy team. Spies aren't at all hard to counter, and are usually dead before they even reach the gun. Scouts and pyros are such a complete non-issue for sentries you're coming across as being dishonest even bringing them up. A good sentry spot is positioned in a spot where the team is ready to back it up from a high ground position, where there's no sightlines for demos or soldiers to reach it without going into its line of sight. If a sentry is in a spot where it's far enough forward and exposed enough that it's easy to push into, that's not a sign of engineer being bad, that's a sign that the engineer is bad. I'm assuming you see this a lot because you're basing your argument around bottom-of-the-barrel valve pub engis. Soldiers and demos can kill sentries. Spies can kill sentries. Heavies can kill sentries. The sentry gun is not meant to be a be-all-end-all DPS machine that survives all round, eventually it's going to get taken down with or without the wrangler. But against an engi who's not braindead they're going to waste a lot of time doing it, and often have to waste an uber. Since the entire point of a team playing defense is to waste the enemy's time, running out the clock, that's a very important role.

Im starting to like the BASE Jumper, it reminds me of jetpacking in Tribes

It always feels a little pointless to me, like instead of being able to fly around the map at a million miles an hour for very little health loss like the gunboats, you get one full-damage rocket jump that makes you rather easy to hit with any hitscan weapons. I might be more inclined to use it if it came with a small (10%?) self damage reduction on rocket jumps.

If Spies are dead before they reach the gun, then they're bad. Unless you're playing against people that are way out of your skill level, you should know how to mover around the enemy team undetected. The literal only area I can think of that a Spy could absolutely not work around is Steel's various control points because they're so small. There's a difference between "Teams deal with Spies" and "People on the enemy team always kill me whenever I play Spy". I said Scouts and Pyros are a non-issue. I brought them up because it's not hard for them to assist with Sentries. I'm not being dishonest, you just think that because I even said them, what I meant was "Scouts and Pyros can even one-shot the Sentries!", because that seems like the one-track mind you three have, where teams only exist when it's the enemy team protecting the Sentry, and not the pushing team sending 2 power classes to deal with the Sentry. And even if you had a point with this argument of "The enemy team exists" (which you don't, your team exists as well), that still completely ignores that Sentry without Wrangler shield is weak and easy to kill. I really don't know what direction you're going by saying "Sentry exists to be a defense hold". That's what it is. That doesn't mean the Sentry by itself isn't weak. You're all arguing nothing. Heavy with a dedicated Medic is a giant threat, just like Engineer with a Sentry is. In pubs, a Heavy with a dedicated Medic can singlehandedly carry a game, just like a single Engineer with a Sentry can singlehandedly win an A/D map. That doesn't mean they're not weak. It means that differing skill levels come into play.

You save a comparable chunk of hp if you deploy the chute just before landing to negate fall damage. It's still not great though.

This would make the heavier weighted classes a little more bearable to utilize at least. But still requires you to be smart, as it'll be a big tip off to see heavies ( at least ones without GRU out ) running at spies speed. I can dig it, would be a nice over all buff to spy in general if it's meant for more then just the Dead Ringer.

If you are looking to discuss the Engineer being too weak, feel free to do so. However the Wrangler is still a problematic weapon, making the Engineer underpowered by nerfing it or not.

...I never said it wasn't a problematic weapon.

The new lime scout cosmetic of choice: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/918052306842063240/140ECABD3227F4F97AF29AC8A1FF4E252B61D84A/ The Beefed Jerk

You seemed to imply as much ("The Wrangler is an integral part of Sentry balance! Sentries without it are useless and very easily taken out!" was something I considered as "don't nerf it, otherwise engie will be useless") - but if this is the case then glad we are on the same page about that, even if we disagree about Engineer as a whole.

Engineer is weak without the Wrangler, but that's inherent to his own balance problems. I don't think that the Wrangler is balanced, it's more of a band-aid for a class that desperately needs tweaking, and I think the Wrangler by itself isn't very great either. Also, workshop cosmetic rules have been broken before, like Scout getting a facial hair all-class cosmetic even though that was a rule originally that he couldn't get facial hair cosmetics iirc

Muscle scout might work if they look like some novelty thing you buy over the phone, like fake inflatable arms.

https://i.redd.it/cfbo9kj76kfx.png

scout gets one step closer towards full jerma conversion

how often does this happen again? https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/1653/4f5dd37b-a8e4-45b2-b71e-ea401203cb42/image.png

at least once every week

every tuesday for a dozen years

hey, one of the devs for this map here, late response, but unfortunately the map is protected and cannot be run locally or on any other server that isn't ours specifically even if you had the bsp, you would not be able to figure out anything about this map when decompiling it you'll have to wait until it is publicly released

I like the wrangler. makes ambushes on engies even easier without the need for a medic.

if you nerf the sentry shield then you gotta beef up the wrangled accuracy again, fair?

Still not as weird as the "Burly Beast" item for Medic.

medic is buff and handsome, lore friendly item scout is LITERALLY ADVERTISED as the "gap between child and man" and is constantly mocked for being a weak shithead -> lore unfriendly item

I would probably laugh if they made it out to be fake as well, and I believe it'd fit Scouts character. Trying to look more impressive all for the sake of impressing Ms Pauling.