TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

[QUOTE=Riorio;53119887]i wonder why the spy got the ambassador in the first place i always thought the stock revolver is a solid gun for him[/QUOTE] ambassador was thoroughly designed, developed and playtested with minicrits only. that's something to consider.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;53120409]ambassador was thoroughly designed, developed and playtested with minicrits only. that's something to consider.[/QUOTE] And on launch mini-crits didn't even properly give a damage bonus since the minicrits themselves were a flat 135% damage and ignored damage rampup. It also was able to pierce through players, buildings, and doors because of reasons unknown

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;53120589]and doors[/QUOTE] what

[QUOTE=comet1337;53120608]what[/QUOTE] Gates like those on Dustbowl, but that's the closest to a door you're going to get in TF2.

Where are the stat clocks on the new paintable weapons? Was curious after seeing a strange mannanas Holy Mackerel being [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/market/listings/440/Strange%20Mannana%20Peeled%20Holy%20Mackerel%20%28Factory%20New%29"]available[/URL] on the community market for 1900$. edit: fixed link, hadn't copied the ht in http

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53120636]Where are the stat clocks on the new paintable weapons? Was curious after seeing a strange mannanas Holy Mackerel being [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/market/listings/440/Strange%20Mannana%20Peeled%20Holy%20Mackerel%20%28Factory%20New%29"]available[/URL] on the community market for 1900$. edit: fixed link, hadn't copied the ht in http[/QUOTE] You can click "inspect ingame" to see the item in client [t]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/920293696893400764/9334FB406B1D7F7519AD92729509E9F7A837CE5A/[/t]

The Ambassador is the single worst thing in TF2. I have no idea who thought Spy should be able to deal 102 damage, completely unstealthily. It's stupidly obvious that it was made to counter the Razorback, which in of itself is already a fucking stupid idea. The Ambassador fundamentally goes against how Spy should play as a class. Spy should never be able to hold his own against other classes, baring Sniper. Unless a player is at 50-60ish health, an encounter between another class and a Spy should always result in either the Spy dying or getting away. The Ambassador completely throws this principle on its head. Suddenly, a Spy is able to not only hold his own, but is even capable of making Spy into a threat. 102 damage is anywhere between 50-80% of 8 out of 9 of the class' health. 8 out of 9 classes are within two headshots from the Ambassador. That doesn't even mention the psychological aspects of The Ambassador either. More often than not, once you get that first headshot, most people will run away. They won't take the risk of approaching that Spy because they have no idea how skilled that Spy player may be. Why take that chance? You have no idea whether that first headshot was a legitimate display of skill, or a complete fluke. The nerf was necessary. Spy should fundamentally become weak once a player notices him. The Ambassador rewards you for being caught, because a player chasing you becomes a radically easier target to headshot. Why should other players be punished for going after a Spy like you are supposed to do? Hands down the worst thing in TF2. Pre-Mannconomy Natascha has nothing on it. It was bullshit in 2009, and it was bullshit for the eight years it was left alone. The Spy's strength should come from other player's ignorance of his presence. Not because a Spy is fucking good at Counter-Strike.

[QUOTE=Ithaca74;53120667]The Ambassador is the single worst thing in TF2. I have no idea who thought Spy should be able to deal 102 damage, completely unstealthily. It's stupidly obvious that it was made to counter the Razorback, which in of itself is already a fucking stupid idea. The Ambassador fundamentally goes against how Spy should play as a class. Spy should never be able to hold his own against other classes, baring Sniper. Unless a player is at 50-60ish health, an encounter between another class and a Spy should always result in either the Spy dying or getting away. The Ambassador completely throws this principle on its head. Suddenly, a Spy is able to not only hold his own, but is even capable of making Spy into a threat. 102 damage is anywhere between 50-80% of 8 out of 9 of the class' health. 8 out of 9 classes are within two headshots from the Ambassador. That doesn't even mention the psychological aspects of The Ambassador either. More often than not, once you get that first headshot, most people will run away. They won't take the risk of approaching that Spy because they have no idea how skilled that Spy player may be. Why take that chance? You have no idea whether that first headshot was a legitimate display of skill, or a complete fluke. The nerf was necessary. Spy should fundamentally become weak once a player notices him. The Ambassador rewards you for being caught, because a player chasing you becomes a radically easier target to headshot. Why should other players be punished for going after a Spy like you are supposed to do? Hands down the worst thing in TF2. Pre-Mannconomy Natascha has nothing on it. It was bullshit in 2009, and it was bullshit for the eight years it was left alone. The Spy's strength should come from other player's ignorance of his presence. Not because a Spy is fucking good at Counter-Strike.[/QUOTE] Revolver is pretty damn powerful, though. I can two shot Snipers with my Revolver if they notice me.

Pre-Australian Christmas Natascha was more acceptable than the Ambassador? What?

[QUOTE=Hell-met;53120409]ambassador was thoroughly designed, developed and playtested with minicrits only. that's something to consider.[/QUOTE] And then it was changed to crits quickly after launch when they realized that made it a downgrade to stock. Like, within a few weeks I think? They backtracked on that quickly.

It's astonishing to me just how many players in this game are oblivious to how things function mechanically, even on a cursory level. I see Pyros in Casual still attempt to earnestly aim their flamethrowers, and buffoons trying to acquire Sandman + Cleaver combos. Nobody seems to read patch notes or bother to keep abreast of community news, and when you take this into consideration, it's no small wonder that r/tf2 is populated with memes rather than thread after thread bemoaning the state of Pyro. I still wince every time I hear someone claim the Huntsman is the fastest projectile in the game.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120845]It's astonishing to me just how many players in this game are oblivious to how things function mechanically, even on a cursory level. I see Pyros in Casual still attempt to earnestly aim their flamethrowers, and buffoons trying to acquire Sandman + Cleaver combos. Nobody seems to read patch notes or bother to keep abreast of community news, and when you take this into consideration, it's no small wonder that r/tf2 is populated with memes rather than thread after thread bemoaning the state of Pyro.[/QUOTE] We all know they tell you pretty much nothing about how the the game works; nothing about damage ramp up and falloff; the scatterguns' increased ramp up; or how rocket launchers, stickies detonated within five seconds, syringe guns, the bison, and pomson have tamer ramp up; how projectiles only fire straight when aiming at far away objects; how crits do 3x damage with no falloff; how minicrits do 1.35x damage with no falloff; critical heals, mediguns making you fun at scout speed when healing scouts; the miniguns' damage and accuracy ramp up over a second of being spun up; how the first reload for some weapons is longer; concete stats of any weapon; that the disciplinary action has long range but no switch penalty like the swords; how melee weapons work. Plus there is some pyro complaining on reddit. edit: [QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120845]I still wince every time I hear someone claim the Huntsman is the fastest projectile in the game.[/QUOTE] You really cringe at an inaccurate statement about a game?

Do they have to? The wiki exists for a reason and it takes a mere few seconds to research desired information.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120877]Do they have to? The wiki exists for a reason and it takes a mere few seconds to research desired information.[/QUOTE] Games shouldn't edit: require looking at the wiki unless its a real-time/turn-based strategy, or the really complex games like eve online and dwarf fortress. Good example of games showing more stats that were hidden, in the last Binding of Isaac dlc, they added the stats screen of a hud mod officially, showing stats that you otherwise wouldn't have known about, like angel/devil deal chance.

To be fair, your average player isn't going to know all the stats/hidden stats and the like, let alone read all the patch notes. They'll just hop on and play, with most of their tf2 discussion being their experience and memes. Properly following and understanding everything is a big ask for most people tbh [QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120845]I see Pyros in Casual still attempt to earnestly aim their flamethrowers[/QUOTE] I do this cus I still feel terrible when I go all wiggly. Fortunately, it's still casual so you can still stomp the enemy without flailing about.

[QUOTE=ASIC;53120349]What was pinion pot of gold anyways?[/QUOTE] An external website/program for a server owner to get money by playing ads through the motd page. Every few rounds, one would pop up and would need to be watched before closing. Sometimes they played in the background and were obnoxiously loud. They played during the game session, so a good chunk of setup or even the match itself could be taken up by the ad. It would've been less annoying if the servers had a designated "pinion" period where the ads played without cutting into actual matches. As it was, though, your team's push could be completely negated by the server deciding that your charged medic hasn't had enough ad breaks yet.

It is a shame how the hit detection is bad, the flames are more consistent now to reward tracking. Also I wouldn't really want the flame box size (12) to be down to 0 or 1, they should start around 8-10.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120845]It's astonishing to me just how many players in this game are oblivious to how things function mechanically, even on a cursory level. I see Pyros in Casual still attempt to earnestly aim their flamethrowers, and buffoons trying to acquire Sandman + Cleaver combos. Nobody seems to read patch notes or bother to keep abreast of community news, and when you take this into consideration, it's no small wonder that r/tf2 is populated with memes rather than thread after thread bemoaning the state of Pyro. I still wince every time I hear someone claim the Huntsman is the fastest projectile in the game.[/QUOTE] Sandman + Cleaver is just a fun thing, and aiming with the Flamey is... normal? The most optimal way is not to sway around in all situations, you know? Not everything equals "unknowing plebs"

Someone gave me a gift with the giftapult item, it is the Pocket Yeti. Such a nice gift brings a smile to my heart.

[QUOTE=RedDagger;53120894]To be fair, your average player isn't going to know all the stats/hidden stats and the like, let alone read all the patch notes. They'll just hop on and play, with most of their tf2 discussion being their experience and memes. Properly following and understanding everything is a big ask for most people tbh I do this cus I still feel terrible when I go all wiggly. Fortunately, it's still casual so you can still stomp the enemy without flailing about.[/QUOTE] It's a lot to ask that a person that enjoys a game would be willing to dive deeper into it and understand said game better so they can appreciate the nuances and improve themselves?

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120877]Do they have to? The wiki exists for a reason and it takes a mere few seconds to research desired information.[/QUOTE] If you want to know one specific piece of information it's fairly easy to find it, but you can hardly expect the entire playerbase to rigorously read through literally hundreds of pages so that they know for absolute certain how many fucking HU/s the direct hit moves at, for their comparative analysis on projectile speed to make sure they get a 3.5 in TF2nomics. Your expectations are ridiculous.

I really wish they'd do another sort of "house cleaning" update again like this one [url]http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=11071[/url]

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;53120985]If you want to know one specific piece of information it's fairly easy to find it, but you can hardly expect the entire playerbase to rigorously read through literally hundreds of pages so that they know for absolute certain how many fucking HU/s the direct hit moves at, for their comparative analysis on projectile speed to make sure they get a 3.5 in TF2nomics. Your expectations are ridiculous.[/QUOTE] If I'm willing to do it, then yes, I can expect everyone else to do the same. [I]Reading[/I] is not an astronomical task.

[QUOTE=Ghille;53120992]I really wish they'd do another sort of "house cleaning" update again like this one [URL]http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=11071[/URL][/QUOTE] This patchnote in the above update [QUOTE]Reduced intensity of Bleed and Jarate screen effects under DX8 [/QUOTE] Reminded me of how DX8 is still in game. Technical question, would there be any noticeable increase in framerate, or decrease in load times if DX8 was removed from TF2? edit added quote [editline]9th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120999]If I'm willing to do it, then yes, I can expect everyone else to do the same. [I]Reading[/I] is not an astronomical task.[/QUOTE] People would know more about the mechanics if they were presented in game, plus the wiki probably isn't localized in all the languages TF2 supports.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120983]It's a lot to ask that a person that enjoys a game would be willing to dive deeper into it and understand said game better so they can appreciate the nuances and improve themselves?[/QUOTE] Yeah, pretty much. If they're taking the game more seriously, then it's pretty normal to expect them to be knowledgeable about this stuff, but it's a bit much to ask for everyone who enjoys the game to go rooting for information not presented in the game itself. For your average person, the weapon stats and seeing other people play is enough for them.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120983]It's a lot to ask that a person that enjoys a game would be willing to dive deeper into it and understand said game better so they can appreciate the nuances and improve themselves?[/QUOTE] lmao "improving" 90% players take the easiest route to anything in every aspect ever you can kill them 40 times in a row and all they accomplish is struggling to find which class counters you the easiest you can kite their projectiles and they'll still shoot where you are rather than where you're going even after thousands of hours

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120877]Do they have to? The wiki exists for a reason and it takes a mere few seconds to research desired information.[/QUOTE] I wouldn’t be surprised if more then 66%+ don’t even bother doing any form of research on how the game functions before jumping in. With how majority of them don’t communicate at all in game I don’t expect these players getting much better any time soon either. It’s not strange though to see people not have any clue on how weapons, classes, ect work at all though. Happens a lot in MvM, were you can normally tell when a player has absolutely no idea what he’s doing and can’t be bothered to look anything up before hand... Probably why a lot of companies out there dumb their games down. So they don’t end up scaring off all the stupid people out there that can’t think outside of the box.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53120999]If I'm willing to do it, then yes, I can expect everyone else to do the same. [I]Reading[/I] is not an astronomical task.[/QUOTE] Reading the hundreds of articles (and even that's being conservative given the amount of trivia you seem to be expecting) on the TF2 wiki IS an astronomical task. Your whole "everybody who doesn't study TF2 trivia for hours and hours is so lazy and dumb" shtick comes across as incredibly elitist. I mean shit you're complaining about people making an effort to aim their flamethrowers. In a first person shooter where basically every other weapon in this game, and this GENRE of games requires you to do that. The "spaz out your flamethrower" crap is super unintuitive, bordering on exploit. It's not easily found on the wiki even if you're looking for information on the flamethrower, and for 10 years the flamethrower did not have this behavior at all. Expecting everybody to know about it is just dumb.

The ambassador would probably be fine with mini-crits if they just changed the -15% damage penalty to -15% damage on body shot or something similar to that. That way you can have a more fair crit damage without having weird falloff or overall shitty damage. May want to increase the damage penalty to around -20% on bodyshot though to compensate for the overall buff.

Just turn crits into mini-crits (except for Kritzkrieg). Killing is important and forgiving but not so important and forgiving that designing a stat around being able to deal three times the damage without any input besides being lucky or aiming at the head with certain guns is just wholly unbalanced. Hell, turn mini-crits into 1.75* or 2* base damage.