TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

what should I get with all the blood money I have?

Pub mentality. 1.Kill someone. 2.He switches to the same class and uses the same weapon to prove to you that he is better with the identical loadout and class. If only he equipped the same hat aswell. ONLY targets you for the entire game. 3.He fails miserably and calls you a hacker. Why can't people just have fun :(?

[QUOTE=Mould;53125767]The problem with all these posts is that you've made it almost impossible for anyone to tell you you're wrong by boiling it down to a really simple statement which is true. All you're really saying, is "we could run all the classes if they were good, if they aren't good or too good, make them just good again." And it's like well yeah obviously but that is not something that is ever in the parameters of this game and actually it is so non-specific that it shouldn't even really be counted as a theory. It doesn't hold water and here's why. If you're planning on buffing the defensive characters to the point where they would see play in koth, what is your plan exactly to buff engi where he sets up fast enough for koth, is mobile enough to play against permanent sniper (you will 100% have a sniper at all times in cl1,) and his sentry is good enough that it actually kills people instead of dying to demo/combined fire immediately - then how are you skill indexing that to the point where the game is actually enriched in any way? And the answer is that you can't do this, because by virtue of the engi having a sentry you are playing with an object that is dealt with not by skill but by execution of a basic flowchart that any good team will execute 100% of the time. If it is good enough to defend against the best flowchart, then it is broken, and if it isn't, then it's useless. Human error isn't a factor when you play with a character that deploys objects, which means you're always banking on the other teams human error. That's why torbjorn is broken as shit at low skill levels and sucks at high levels. That's why in high levels engi will only ever be viable on non PL/AD as anything more than a road bump or a surprise. It's the same shit with spy and every other stealth character that has ever existed. Either he's not great because he requires stealth, which isn't reliable against humans, especially not at the higher levels, or he's broken because he is just a character that still kills you 1v1 but also has stealth tacked on for free flanks. So if you have a sniper and the meta states the other team will run a spy who will usually be able to deal with the sniper, it no longer works because the stealth is no longer a surprise and therefore it's unreliable and won't be able to kill the sniper. These are two examples of things you cannot possibly fix, not without changing the class so much to the point where it's not even an engi or spy anymore. And nobody wants their class changed hugely just so that you can have a new meta which seems to have tangible merits. And actually, I would be hugely surprised if a large amount of people playing tf2 are even interested in a meta game where you cycle classes to counter eachother endlessly. Which actually won't happen anyway because you are always going to have the high skill ceiling classes being the best, and if you don't, congratulations you've ruined the game.[/QUOTE] What's with all the shitting on engi? Engineer isn't any more of a "low skill ceiling flowchart class" than medic, and medic is the most powerful class in the game. Both have to prioritize healing targets under pressure to keep as many targets alive as possible while determining which is most important to keep alive for the team. With medic it's teammates, with engi it's buildings (though by keeping the dispenser alive engi can also prioritize keeping his team alive). Both have more of a focus on gamesense than mechanical skill and advanced mobility. For medic that means paying attention to uber advantages, knowing when the enemy is pushing and you need to fall back to keep from dropping, knowing when you have the advantage and can uber in, etc. For engineer it means knowing when you can move your buildings up, when the enemy as the advantage and you need to play defensively, knowing the landscape and where you'll have a good chance at holding, and which buildings are needed most by your team. Engineer has depth in creative building placement and more of a focus on mechanical aim, while medic has depth in avoiding death from an entire team that wants to kill you. Everything you're saying about engineer makes it sound like you barely play engineer. If you're the kind of engi that just plops a sentry down in a sentry spot everybody knows about and expects it to get kills for you, that doesn't mean the class has a low skill ceiling, it means you're at a low skill level with engi. Engineer only plays like a flowchart for people who aren't good at engineer, you need to be in the thick of it, with constantly shifting sentry placement to throw off the enemy, good shotgun aim to soften people up so that the sentry and the rest of your team can finish of high-health targets, and aggressive building placement to keep the pressure up and support your team whenever you see an opening. Engi could easily be viable in koth or maybe even 5cp if they just gave him a weapon replacement for his dispenser and teleporter to make them usable in an environment where you need to quickly switch between attack and defense. The gunslinger already does this for his sentry. Give him a teleporter replacement that turns it into a speed pad, so everybody can get a buff to reach the front lines faster. Make the buff go away on taking chip damage (and of course after a reasonable amount of time has passed) so people can't drop it near the front lines and get a huge advantage for scout DM. Give him a mini dispenser that lets him quickly set up a bit of healing for his team at low metal cost. None of this makes engi "not an engineer anymore", offensive engineer with the gunslinger has been in the game for over seven years. All these would do is give him more options for offensive situations. I don't know what the fuck to do about the frenchman though, he's like the hardest thing in the game to try to balance around competitive.

Why have dispensers never been rebalanced? Sentries build faster and Teleporters cost less metal than before, but I think Dispensers haven't really been changed. edit: added been

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53126281]Why have dispensers never been rebalanced?[/QUOTE] because there is no need for rebalancing it

[QUOTE=Fillmore;53126287]because there is no need for rebalancing it[/QUOTE] They could build a little faster but other than that they are balanced. edit: no one ever complains about dispensers so they may be the most balanced thing in TF2 :v: edit2: they're so well, average I actually don't know if they're balanced, one of the least actiony parts of TF2

Two pup mini-experiences I have on a regular basis: 1. I'm playing Solider, Demo or Heavy. I get backstabbed. I switch to Pyro, even if there are already 5 others on my team. I kill the spy, often repeatedly unless he's some trickstab god. "lol rage pyro" "WM1 noob" or best of all "hacking because he killed me when I was cloaked" ...on 2Fort where spies follow a path with greater regularity than bots. 2. I join a game, go Heavy. I kill ...any player on the enemy team. "Nice rage heavy." "lol, rage heavy on red." "hahaha he got mad and went heavy." I actually have in instance of that second one saved in my quote file: [QUOTE][#1] L 07/28/2015 - 02:57:32: "phishermans_ghost<1104><[U:1:57954291]><Red>" say "rage heavy?" [#1] L 07/28/2015 - 02:57:51: "The Digitized Assailant [MicS]<1054><[U:1:64769146]><Blue>" say "yes. I'm Heavy, and you're raging."[/QUOTE]

why is it that whenever I see a really stupid sentence or name outside of tf2 I think nothing of it but once I see them in tf2 its comedy gold

Got Ninja'd on a few things. WRT Dispensers there are two important mechanical changes made recently. Dispensers don't work through walls anymore, which sucks on MvM. Also, they now maintain overheal, which is weird AF, but makes the fat guy really happy (especially in MvM.)

[QUOTE=Ultravod;53126322]Also, they now maintain overheal, which is weird AF, but makes the fat guy really happy (especially in MvM.)[/QUOTE] I haven’t noticed this. Is this intentional? Because a few years ago it maintained overheal, but after some months they changed it saying it was a bug.

Some people [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7wzsg0/with_tf2s_numbers_suddenly_and_drastically/"]sent[/URL] a document to valve about community servers and they actually responded, tho with the usual thanks for feedback reply.

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53126366]Some people [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7wzsg0/with_tf2s_numbers_suddenly_and_drastically/"]sent[/URL] a document to valve about community servers and they actually responded, tho with the usual thanks for feedback reply.[/QUOTE] The fact that they responded in the first place is giving me hope for community servers. I do kinda wince a bit looking at the list of servers, half of them are wacky custom mods shit. No simpe nocrits vanilla tf2 with custom maps, but "smash bros "TRADE CITY" stuff". It kinda solidifies the image I think the TF team had and still has for Community Servers: Wacky mod shit that has 0% to do with the base game.

[QUOTE=Ultravod;53126292]Two pup mini-experiences I have on a regular basis: 1. I'm playing Solider, Demo or Heavy. I get backstabbed. I switch to Pyro, even if there are already 5 others on my team. I kill the spy, often repeatedly unless he's some trickstab god. "lol rage pyro" "WM1 noob" or best of all "hacking because he killed me when I was cloaked" ...on 2Fort where spies follow a path with greater regularity than bots. 2. I join a game, go Heavy. I kill ...any player on the enemy team. "Nice rage heavy." "lol, rage heavy on red." "hahaha he got mad and went heavy." I actually have in instance of that second one saved in my quote file:[/QUOTE] nobody has ever gone rage heavy since... i dont know, 2008?

[QUOTE=chandlerj333;53126352]I haven’t noticed this. Is this intentional? Because a few years ago it maintained overheal, but after some months they changed it saying it was a bug.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the payload's dispenser always did that, so maybe the regular dispenser mechanics were changed to keep consistency and better aide them in terms of balance (Dispensers are objectively the weakest engineer building in terms of input to output)? Also, the TF2 classes were designed around being picked/counterpicked. Unlike Overwatch, which has multiple characters that fill the same niche but in different ways (flanker/DPS, defense/pick, tank/engage, healer/utility), each class is designed solely to fill one specific role. The R/P/S system of TF2 classes is very intended, because the point of the game is a team coming together and using their combined skill and coordination to beat the enemy, RPS be damned. Pyro > Spy > Sniper > Pyro, Scout > Demo > Engineer > Scout, Medic > Engineer > Sniper > Medic, all of it is intended. That's part of the fun of the game, and turning the classes into generalists is fundamentally misunderstanding the core gameplay of TF2. It'd be like saying every piece in Chess should be able to move the same way a Pawn or Knight can.

[video]https://youtu.be/xFhB6F5n3b4?t=52m42s[/video] Small channel Raycevick made a video about Orange Box where during TF2's section (52:42, not sure why YT starts it at 24 instead) they underlined TF2's issues from the unexperienced player standpoint. While they didn't say anything that wasn't discussed here before, i still felt like it was interesting to hear that from somebody who almost didn't have any experience with the game, despite becoming familiar with it way before most of current features were added.

[QUOTE=Flash_Fire;53125906]If anybody is currently burned out on casual with over 500 hours and on the fence about joining comp like I was last year, I would fully recommend it. Since signing up for the ETF2L fresh meat tournament I've had nothing but a blast. My team is currently now in mid, me and a friend even took a roadtrip to insomnia 61 for a meetup, great fun. (my friend got b4nny and getawhale to sign his subway sandwhich which he then ate anyway)[/QUOTE] I tried a couple times, but open hl is terrible because basically no one ever showed up to scrims, so I just buggered off and all I have to show for it is an etf2l open hl participation medal :v: TF2C has been fine for scratching any of those itches for me personally, haven't really been into it lately though.

is tf2center still running? I thought it died out years ago and lobby.tf filled its shoes.

Is it me or when you land with the thermal thruster the combine walking sound plays for a moment,or maybe it just sounds similar.

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;53126448]I'm pretty sure the payload's dispenser always did that, so maybe the regular dispenser mechanics were changed to keep consistency and better aide them in terms of balance (Dispensers are objectively the weakest engineer building in terms of input to output)? Also, the TF2 classes were designed around being picked/counterpicked. Unlike Overwatch, which has multiple characters that fill the same niche but in different ways (flanker/DPS, defense/pick, tank/engage, healer/utility), each class is designed solely to fill one specific role. The R/P/S system of TF2 classes is very intended, because the point of the game is a team coming together and using their combined skill and coordination to beat the enemy, RPS be damned. Pyro > Spy > Sniper > Pyro, Scout > Demo > Engineer > Scout, Medic > Engineer > Sniper > Medic, all of it is intended. That's part of the fun of the game, and turning the classes into generalists is fundamentally misunderstanding the core gameplay of TF2. It'd be like saying every piece in Chess should be able to move the same way a Pawn or Knight can.[/QUOTE] Well, the issue right now is that current competitive doesn't involve any of that. It simply involves the generalists, which don't really counter each other that much (except when a class gets close to Demoman, where he is countered by both Scout and Soldier). That game of rock/paper/scissors, which can be fun in a certain context, doesn't occur in current competitive. Making the offclasses more useful and allowing them to be played more, and actually counter the classes they're supposed to (and be countered by the classes they're supposed to) would make the game much more fun to watch and play, in my opinion. [editline]12th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Rajikaru;53126552]is tf2center still running? I thought it died out years ago and lobby.tf filled its shoes.[/QUOTE] tf2center is up just fine. I haven't even been getting the adblock notification recently, so they must have cut that out.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;53126570]Well, the issue right now is that current competitive doesn't involve any of that. It simply involves the generalists, which don't really counter each other that much (except when a class gets close to Demoman, where he is countered by both Scout and Soldier). That game of rock/paper/scissors, which can be fun in a certain context, doesn't occur in current competitive. Making the offclasses more useful and allowing them to be played more, and actually counter the classes they're supposed to (and be countered by the classes they're supposed to) would make the game much more fun to watch and play, in my opinion. [/QUOTE] This goes back to what I've literally been saying for weeks, TF2 competitive 6s is nothing like stock TF2 and shouldn't compared. I personally have no problem whatsoever with 6s, but you can't compare it to stock TF2, it just doesn't work, it's why Highlander exists in the first place. 6s is trying to create a competitive environment from TF2 resources, it's like how TF2 itself originated from a mod to an existing game. That's why it has such a huge banlist of weapons, maps, etc

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;53126591]This goes back to what I've literally been saying for weeks, TF2 competitive 6s is nothing like stock TF2 and shouldn't compared. I personally have no problem whatsoever with 6s, but you can't compare it to stock TF2, it just doesn't work, it's why Highlander exists in the first place. 6s is trying to create a competitive environment from TF2 resources, it's like how TF2 itself originated from a mod to an existing game. That's why it has such a huge banlist of weapons, maps, etc[/QUOTE] And Valve wants competitive TF2 to be more like what TF2 currently is. No banlist, just balance. And that goes back to, for some reason, unreasonable expectations of Valve to balance weapons [I]often[/I] so that nothing stays too powerful for long.

Is anyone having a problem with Pyro’s airblast? I haven’t seen or heard any problems with the post-JI airblast now, seems to do the job well at airblasting and not being annoying to fight against.

Speaking of airblast, it makes players lose footing now, don't know it was created for airblast or is just something you can so with Source by default but it would be interesting to see if it can be applied to map brushes to make slippery floors. (maybe the banana on Mannhattan/beer on Watergate makes players lose footing the same way?)

new airblast is, apart from the DF, the most fun I had with pyro so far

[QUOTE=Fluury;53126758]new airblast is, apart from the DF, the most fun I had with pyro so far[/QUOTE] Yes, because increasing the force of airblast for even more cheap and unavoidable environmental kills was [I]totally[/I] what "from pyro with love" spelled out /s In fact, that was the one thing they specifically did not ask for, yet valve did anyway for some pointless reason. This update was supposed to rework pyro, which failed on pretty much all accounts, but succeeded in making it a brainless, overpowered mess of a class.

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53126785]Yes, because increasing the force of airblast for even more cheap and unavoidable environmental kills was [I]totally[/I] what "from pyro with love" spelled out /s In fact, that was the one thing they specifically did not ask for, yet valve did anyway for some pointless reason.[/QUOTE] The force wasnt really increased though. If you dont want to get pushed across the map, you can affect airblast that way now. Pushing people off cliffs has become harder if anything, unless you are surfing from a rocket at someone with the velocity of a bullet, you arent going to get that "insane push".

[QUOTE=Fluury;53126792]The force wasnt really increased though. If you dont want to get pushed across the map, you can affect airblast that way now. Pushing people off cliffs has become harder if anything, unless you are surfing from a rocket at someone with the velocity of a bullet, you arent going to get that "insane push".[/QUOTE] Airblast takes momentum into consideration now, but whatever they did, it didn't work, because you get forced [I]across[/I] angled surfaces as if friction didn't exist rather than running into them. True, this means you can get out of being stun locked up a wall or prop easier, but that means nothing when you've traded groundstalling for being slid backwards across a floor and then off an edge you were nowhere near to begin with. Having pitfalls and ledges like upward last be even more dangerous than usual because of a brainless point and click mechanic is bad game design.

I reached out to the dude that wrote the TF folk an email about the Community Server stuff if he could send me the entire email, and he did! [t]https://i.imgur.com/Hr9K5ZS.png[/t] [QUOTE] --Me: Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 10:22 PM Hello, <Redacted>! I hope your holidays were grand, I know mine was. I have here for you the write-up we discussed over the on the phone. Apologizes for the lateness but the holidays are a busy time for us all as I'm sure you understand. Please look this over at your earliest convenience, and I greatly look forward to hearing from you again! --Matthew [url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/17H1A5PqqQceBWUj54W2HX6pcfFydUg8sX5HACGRihso/edit#[/url] --Reply from Valve: Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 7:23 PM Cool. I’ll take a look. --Me: Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 6:06 PM Hello, <Redacted>! Sorry to bother and I don't intend to make a habit of it, but we were all curious as to reactions of the email, what may come next and such. Looking forward to hearing from you again! --Reply from Valve: Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 7:16 PM Hi Matthew, Thanks again for sending this; we definitely appreciate you guys taking the time to write up your thoughts and very much appreciate your efforts on behalf of the TF2 community. We both agree about the benefits of community servers, and while we don’t have anything specific to announce at this time, please know that we are very much aware of your concerns and are always happy to hear any feedback that you have. Best, <Redacted> [/QUOTE] To note is that the user quite literally talked to them [I]over the phone.[/I] Good reminder that while they arent communicating much, they are there, and they are aware.

[QUOTE=Fluury;53126758]new airblast is, apart from the DF, the most fun I had with pyro so far[/QUOTE] I kind of wished it accounted for character weights a bit when it comes to air blasting... Scout, Spy and Sniper would get tossed the longest distance. While Heavy, Soldier and maybe Demo would get launched the shortest distance due to them being heavier. I do like it better then the older air blast though over all.

One thing that I think would be really cool for community service would be to have a "now playing" menu, where currently populated community servers with low ping would be immediately visible when you click the "Play" button. One main draw of community servers for new players could be immediate, ad hoc connection instead of having to wait at all. Having those servers visible right off the bat could make them a bigger draw for people who just want to get into a game as fast as possible. You'd need certain restrictions to avoid garbage farming servers and instant respawn x10 Saxton hale highertower, but if they could figure out how to filter the trash automatically it could be a great way to populate servers. [editline]12th February 2018[/editline] Contracts are also a concern. Nobody's going to join a community server when they want to get their contract rewards. Maybe vanilla server owners could request approval for contracts to be available on their servers, and if they try to abuse their server for auto contract farming they get that permission revoked.