TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

I can't imagine a situation where GP through walls could beat detonator or scorch shit if you intend was applying afterburn on the med for a bomb attempt. You lose any reliable range damage you have for a one time use item that doesn't even ignite the players for longer or more powerful than 2 of the flare guns. A video of situations that only GP wall exploit can do would be appreciated.

[QUOTE=Exhale;53146891]I can't imagine a situation where GP through walls could beat detonator or scorch shit if you intend was applying afterburn on the med for a bomb attempt. You lose any reliable range damage you have for a one time use item that doesn't even ignite the players for longer or more powerful than 2 of the flare guns. A video of situations that only GP wall exploit can do would be appreciated.[/QUOTE] the simple answer is that peeking a medic to actually shoot a flare while your soldier bombs you're risking dying and 2 picks is technically pushable, whereas throwing something through a wall is obviously not going to be risky. I'll try to find some interesting throws though (may take a while as I'm busy on a mapping deadline)

None of the stats or the mechanics behind the gas passer fullfill any role, function or even niche that the pyro can't do already with stuff he already has. -pyro can already work as an area denial with this flamethrower and scorch shot, so AOE afterburn chance every 30-60 seconds is pointless. -even as a "last resort" sort of gimmick (like throwing it on a cluster of enemies capping) the afterburn will not kill them before they cap, nor finish them off. -unlike jarate or mad milk, you can remove the actual debuff (afterburn) with any healing source. -applying Afterburn on enemy pyros is pointless when direct fire will kill them even faster(the actual selling point of the GP) -the GP also means getting rid of any mid to long range option, rendering you even more defenseless agaisnt approaching/fleeing targets. [sp]-you can't apply paints to it, even though it has inspect animations.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Metaru;53147085]None of the stats or the mechanics behind the gas passer fullfill any role, function or even niche that the pyro can't do already with stuff he already has. -pyro can already work as an area denial with this flamethrower and scorch shot, so AOE afterburn chance every 30-60 seconds is pointless. -even as a "last resort" sort of gimmick (like throwing it on a cluster of enemies capping) the afterburn will not kill them before they cap, nor finish them off. -unlike jarate or mad milk, you can remove the actual debuff (afterburn) with any healing source. -applying Afterburn on enemy pyros is pointless when direct fire will kill them even faster(the actual selling point of the GP) -the GP also means getting rid of any mid to long range option, rendering you even more defenseless agaisnt approaching/fleeing targets. [sp]-you can't apply paints to it, even though it has inspect animations.[/sp][/QUOTE] I believe the GP was created to fill that terrible "give pyro a molotov xd" idea that stuck around for years.

[QUOTE=Metaru;53147085]None of the stats or the mechanics behind the gas passer fullfill any role, function or even niche that the pyro can't do already with stuff he already has. -pyro can already work as an area denial with this flamethrower and scorch shot, so AOE afterburn chance every 30-60 seconds is pointless. -even as a "last resort" sort of gimmick (like throwing it on a cluster of enemies capping) the afterburn will not kill them before they cap, nor finish them off. -unlike jarate or mad milk, you can remove the actual debuff (afterburn) with any healing source. -applying Afterburn on enemy pyros is pointless when direct fire will kill them even faster(the actual selling point of the GP) -the GP also means getting rid of any mid to long range option, rendering you even more defenseless agaisnt approaching/fleeing targets. [sp]-you can't apply paints to it, even though it has inspect animations.[/sp][/QUOTE] I'm sure the GP was intended to give Pyro area denial abilities to make him better in a defensive role, like Pyro is in 6s. Also plenty of weapons that will never get paints (like the bread weapons) have their own inspect animations.

[QUOTE=Punchy;53144529] Heavy is very strong in 6s. He is weak when required to constantly move, or within longrange spaces where he is less effective. For these reasons him and engineer are inflexible- only really best when the fight is close and not moving.[/QUOTE] Ergo... he's not that great in 6s?

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53147191]Ergo... he's not that great in 6s?[/QUOTE] As in he can be very strong in a 6v6 environment, but the current 6s map pool makes him ineffective outside of last holds.

You'd be surprised what a good 6's team with a good heavy can do. There is a russian team in 6's atm who are notorious of rolling heavy on some maps and completely demolishing other team while the heavy overscores every other class on the team.

Titanium Tank medals are actually live. [t]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/921420865922509971/19141F03B8EC40EB26B8E042C2ED0BA15E56BFC7/[/t]

Interesting. I thought that the map/mission makers would get genuine while people who did the tour would just get unique.

[QUOTE=MarioMaster2008;53147313]Titanium Tank medals are actually live. [t]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/921420865922509971/19141F03B8EC40EB26B8E042C2ED0BA15E56BFC7/[/t][/QUOTE] I hope the Tuesday Steam maintenance outage didn't mess up the distribution. I got mine, anyone who did the tour not have theirs?

[QUOTE=DrCactus;53147336]Interesting. I thought that the map/mission makers would get genuine while people who did the tour would just get unique.[/QUOTE] That would require their distribution API to support two qualities, like Kritzkast's one does for the Lo-Fi Longwave. They'd probably needed to have asked for that specifically, in the same way Kritzkast asked for a Vintage one. By default, the medal is Genuine; and there's only one model. In the future, Hydrogen has said in the comments of Potato's MVM Servers group that he has taken note of comments saying that people would like some sort of distinction between mission makers and tour completionists, and is leaning towards having two separate medals if they do an MVM contest again. He'll have a feedback thread on Titanium Tank posted up soon, where everybody is free to voice their opinions on that and other matters.

[IMG]https://files.catbox.moe/ym82ss.png[/IMG] I can always do with two. [QUOTE=DrCactus;53147336]Interesting. I thought that the map/mission makers would get genuine while people who did the tour would just get unique.[/QUOTE] That would've been a nice idea, but Hydrogen didn't want to bite more than he could chew by asking for multiple medals, so people who have submitted a mission, those who won with their mission and those who finish the tour get the same exact medal. A good thing is that you can paint them and give them names separately so it's not so bad I suppose.

I never understood why do people get double medals of the same kind? Happened with heartfell hug too. What's the point? It's the same item.

[QUOTE=qubestf2;53147248] There is a russian team in 6's atm who are notorious of rolling heavy [B]on some maps[/B] and completely demolishing other team while the heavy overscores every other class on the team.[/QUOTE] :quotes:

[QUOTE=Metaru;53147466]:quotes:[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that "some" maps ( about 3-4 ) is already the [B]MAJORITY[/B] of maps that are being used in TF2 competitive scene. I said "some" simply because Heavy would not work on maps like Granary.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53147191]Ergo... he's not that great in 6s?[/QUOTE] he's weak in 5cp-oriented community 6s on most spots outside of last. That does not mean he's bad in 6s. Valve has shown clear interest in developing the format beyond its current map pool and class pool. [QUOTE=MarioMaster2008;53147313]Titanium Tank medals are actually live. [t]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/921420865922509971/19141F03B8EC40EB26B8E042C2ED0BA15E56BFC7/[/t][/QUOTE] I wish this would have been advertised more clearly. I love MvM and had no clue about it simply because i'm not a part of the relevant subcommunity.

[QUOTE=Punchy;53147696]I wish this would have been advertised more clearly. I love MvM and had no clue about it simply because i'm not a part of the relevant subcommunity.[/QUOTE] well you’re in luck since it “formally” launched just today! previously, I guess it was a pre-launch kinda deal for interested people or people who happened to hear it by word of mouth. I guess the disadvantage now is that the servers are likely filled much quicker now. if you manage to get 6 interested people, the responsible parties might still reserve a server for you to play on. that’s how it was before. i’d link the relevant info but i’m on mobile. now that i'm not: [url]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/potatomvmservers#announcements/detail/1663388904536296299[/url]

[QUOTE=Punchy;53147696]he's weak in 5cp-oriented community 6s on most spots outside of last. That does not mean he's bad in 6s. Valve has shown clear interest in developing the format beyond its current map pool and class pool.[/QUOTE] Why not get weird and try some new stuff, like [URL="https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/HAARP"] HAARP[/URL], a map where blu takes the intel and delivers it to cap points defended by red. Or [URL="https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Meridian"]Meridian[/URL], a TC map where you cap intel instead of points. Meridian and another map I saw on the TF wiki, [URL="https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Congo"]Congo[/URL] are coincidentally jungle themed.

[QUOTE=Fluury;53146518]Interestingly enough the Steam image for TF2 still advertises Jungle Inferno. [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/onPkKtk.png[/IMG] Also isn't this the first time we had the Steam Workshop there? I always recall past updates taking that place.[/QUOTE] Steam Workshop has been there before, but I don't remember when. If I had to guess, I'd say it was 2013/2014, prior to Love and War.

[QUOTE=Punchy;53147696]he's weak in 5cp-oriented community 6s on most spots outside of last. That does not mean he's bad in 6s. Valve has shown clear interest in developing the format beyond its current map pool and class pool. I wish this would have been advertised more clearly. I love MvM and had no clue about it simply because i'm not a part of the relevant subcommunity.[/QUOTE] Just to clarify, when I said 6s I meant community 6v6, not the theoretical perfected format that happens to have six players on each team.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53148023]Just to clarify, when I said 6s I meant community 6v6, not the theoretical perfected format that happens to have six players on each team.[/QUOTE] I doubt Valve is even 100% committed to 6 players per team, I imagine we'll see some experimentation with everything from player counts to maps.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53148023]Just to clarify, when I said 6s I meant community 6v6, not the theoretical perfected format that happens to have six players on each team.[/QUOTE] if that's the case then in the future you should type 'community 6s', not '6s'.

Even if the molotov exploded and put everyone on it's explosion radius to max afterburn it would still be not good as it would still not do enough damage to be viable.

[QUOTE=Punchy;53148121]if that's the case then in the future you should type 'community 6s', not '6s'.[/QUOTE] Community 6s has been and still is the only real way to play the format aside from valve's unfinished 6-man pub with no random crits. I'd wager the comparison of the two is so far apart that there's no need for this semantics debate.

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53148151]Community 6s has been and still is the only real way to play the format aside from valve's unfinished 6-man pub with no random crits. I'd wager the comparison of the two is so far apart that there's no need for this semantics debate.[/QUOTE] Ignoratio elenchi. 6s has no definitive format, regardless of if community 6s is the most popular running version. By saying 6s, people are referring to 6s as a whole. Not just community 6s. By saying heavy is bad in 6s, that implies the format itself is what makes him unviable when the community aspect is what decides that.

[QUOTE=Punchy;53148204]Ignoratio elenchi.[/QUOTE] Come on dude.

[QUOTE=Punchy;53148204]Ignoratio elenchi. 6s has no definitive format, regardless of if community 6s is the most popular running version. By saying 6s, people are referring to 6s as a whole. Not just community 6s. By saying heavy is bad in 6s, that implies the format itself is what makes him unviable when the community aspect is what decides that.[/QUOTE] I said nothing about heavy. That's an interesting fallacy... Anyway, what do you mean 6s has no definitive format? Let's see here: The one that just played for $15,000 in Esports prize money? Or valve's unfinished beta mode that literally is impossible for many users to play at the moment dude to low player numbers and no rank diversity. But no, you're right, clearly there's no definitive format of 6s. With that logic one could start a hl league where everything is banned, point to nobody playing it like valve's comp version, and claim there's no definitive hl version either.

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53148300]I said nothing about heavy. That's an interesting fallacy... Anyway, what do you mean 6s has no definitive format? Let's see here: The one that just played for $15,000 in Esports prize money? Or valve's unfinished beta mode that literally is impossible for many users to play at the moment dude to low player numbers and no rank diversity. But no, you're right, clearly there's no definitive format of 6s. With that logic one could start a hl league where everything is banned, point to nobody playing it like valve's comp version, and claim there's no definitive hl version either.[/QUOTE] I was using exors post as an example of why the distinction is necessary. That is why I mentioned the heavy. Yes, rewind 2 had the biggest prizepool yet. I attended. No, it's not the definitive format. Yes, valve's ranked is garbage. It is also not the definitive 6s format. Because neither is representative of 6s' potential. Community 6s is the closest to it, but it is still limited by its map pool and nonexistent developer support. Ranked is the opposite, having no rulesets to abide to whatsoever and no proper matchmaking systems in place. Until we see a valve held/sponsored tournament, there is no definitive version of 6s in play that everybody can point to and claim to be what the mode is supposed to be. Because that's only what valve decides at this point. This is why it's important to be distinct between community 6s and 6s as a format. Asking 'Where does heavy fit?' will result in different answers for each.

[QUOTE=Punchy;53148349] Yes, rewind 2 had the biggest prizepool yet. [/QUOTE] Everyone seems to always forget [URL="http://comp.tf/wiki/PC_Gamer_Showdown"]PC Gamer Showdown 2008[/URL]