TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53170385]You won't get anywhere here. People think the new flamethrower is clearly not overpowered around these parts...[/QUOTE] It's hard to argue that it's overpowered when it's really not a problem at high skill levels. The issue is that aiming is broken and it's much too easy to deal near-full damage using crutch flailing tactics. It's broken but not really overpowered per say.

I'd like a new map set in Scotland, it could be set in a Mann co munitions factory or something, Demo's backstory and the Caber makes it seem the TF version of Scotland has an explosives based culture.

[QUOTE=JasperDx17;53170466]lads [url]http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=37676[/url][/QUOTE] wait since when are the saxxies in fucking [I]march[/I]? I could've sworn they took place way later in the year... speaking of march my birthday's tomorrow 🎉

[QUOTE=Contra132;53170612]wait since when are the saxxies in fucking [I]march[/I]? I could've sworn they took place way later in the year... speaking of march my birthday's tomorrow 🎉[/QUOTE] Got moved to March either because of the JI delays, or to make it more like awards shows like the Oscars?

Our first major update of the year!

Can they please update Replays? They still need Quicktime which has had support dropped by Apple, so it's a security risk. (and to let people get the replay achievement again)

BOOM, BABY! [t]https://i.imgur.com/5lA1Ca2.png[/t] Sorry for the god-awful quality, but hey, my first unusual unbox!

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53170385]You won't get anywhere here. People think the new flamethrower is clearly not overpowered around these parts...[/QUOTE] I still don't think it's OP in the slightest. Just broken and very easy to maximize it's effectiveness compared to other primaries. Fixing those broken particles registering as hits when they clearly miss, and then a little bit of skill indexing would probably go a long way without directly nerfing the pyro's output. I mean, pyro's DPS is 173 isn't it? While Scout's, Demo's and Soldiers are all over 200... Heavies DPS is 500 if the wiki is correct at point blank and 30-300 mid range? The biggest issue is the lack of aiming more then anything, something those bugged particles significantly contribute to since as stated they all register as hits as long as one of them lands on the target(s).

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;53170576]It's hard to argue that it's overpowered when it's really not a problem at high skill levels. The issue is that aiming is broken and it's much too easy to deal near-full damage using crutch flailing tactics. It's broken but not really overpowered per say.[/QUOTE] Well now you're just splitting hairs. Is the weapon meant to deal max damage against a limitless number of enemies standing in it's range? No. But you can accomplish that already questionable feat with an absolute lack of skill. The broken flames give the flamethrower too much power, hence the term. By valve hasn't made fixing ostensibly the biggest problem in casual right now priority one is beyond m- Wait. Valve. Never mind.

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53171200]Well now you're just splitting hairs. Is the weapon meant to deal max damage against a limitless number of enemies standing in it's range? No. But you can accomplish that already questionable feat with an absolute lack of skill. The broken flames give the flamethrower too much power, hence the term. By valve hasn't made fixing ostensibly the biggest problem in casual right now priority one is beyond m- Wait. Valve. Never mind.[/QUOTE] If they had made the Thermal Thruster actually useful, they would've banned the weapon in 6s, not because of the weapon itself, but because of Pyro's dumb fire

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53171200]Well now you're just splitting hairs. Is the weapon meant to deal max damage against a limitless number of enemies standing in it's range? No. But you can accomplish that already questionable feat with an absolute lack of skill. The broken flames give the flamethrower too much power, hence the term. By valve hasn't made fixing ostensibly the biggest problem in casual right now priority one is beyond m- Wait. Valve. Never mind.[/QUOTE] It's likely they're going to have to make major flame changes yet again to fix them. If so I feel a bit bad for them tbh.

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53171220]It's likely they're going to have to make major flame changes yet again to fix them. If so I feel a bit bad for them tbh.[/QUOTE] I find that difficult to feel after 400+ days of pyro development was found to be horribly flawed in a single hour of play testing by the users. This borked flame physics had to be intentional, as the claim that somehow, after all that time and effort, they had no idea about it basically confirms that they have no internal play testing with the live game whatsoever, and developed an update without it. Which, considering Dane said he literally saw men on computers playing TF2 on a random weekday, I refuse to believe. I don't get it.

the thing is the pyro's flames aren't exactly powerful unless you get in arm's each of an enemy gamer, but in serious competitive play, that's never going to happen for more than half a second before the pyro gets maimed and all the damage he's done gets turned into ubercharge for the enemy medic, but in a pub there's no communication to let people know that there's a pyro waiting around that corner about to slow cook anyone who dares fight for the objective

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53171249]I find that difficult to feel after 400+ days of pyro development was found to be horribly flawed in a single hour of play testing by the users. This borked flame physics had to be intentional, as the claim that somehow, after all that time and effort, they had no idea about it basically confirms that they have no internal play testing with the live game whatsoever, and developed an update without it. Which, considering Dane said he literally saw men on computers playing TF2 on a random weekday, I refuse to believe.[/QUOTE] It seems the source of the bad hitreg, the game only checking if you're in contact with any flame hitboxes, not how many, was simply for the best performance. May be hard to fix it without worsening existing perf issues.

[QUOTE=rolfum;53171253]the thing is the pyro's flames aren't exactly powerful unless you get in arm's each of an enemy gamer, but in serious competitive play, that's never going to happen for more than half a second before the pyro gets maimed and all the damage he's done gets turned into ubercharge for the enemy medic, but in a pub there's no communication to let people know that there's a pyro waiting around that corner about to slow cook anyone who dares fight for the objective[/QUOTE] It's not like suicide plays are a thing or the pyro was given a jetpack in the most recent update, eh? I ran pyro in an RGL prolander scrim and did exactly what you said, even against experienced competitive players, and still managed to get away with slaughter. Pyro has become a serious rushdown pick in competitive because of this bug, and for that matter, you do have to balance casual, by fixing issues before they appear in competitive.

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53171272]It's not like suicide plays are a thing or the pyro was given a jetpack in the most recent update, eh? I ran pyro in an RGL prolander scrim and did exactly what you said, even against experienced competitive players, and still managed to get away with slaughter. Pyro has become a serious rushdown pick in competitive because of this bug, and for that matter, you do have to balance casual, by fixing issues before they appear in competitive.[/QUOTE] I find the Jetpack to be pretty easy to counter play. It's distinctive sound makes it easy to note when a Pyro is around. and that nice little 30% added push back makes it easy to send the pyro flying away from you if you land a hit on it. If heavy is being run he can shut down jetpack pyro's fairly easily. Infact, he can pin them to walls and ceilings if he constantly nails the pyro while he flies through the air. Balancing around competitive, for the most part will balance around casual as well more often then not. Uncle Dane actually posted a pretty decent video covering why in his trickle down balance video. [video=youtube;X1p42KtZOCw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw[/video] Exceptions though probably still exist... Like the Quick-fix for instance... Where I feel it's more problematic when teams have less players then it would if they had the typical 12x12 casual match numbers due to more players = high damage output. Not to mention Crits one shotting people potentially even during the quick-fix's uber.

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53171272]RGL prolander scrim[/QUOTE] I said serious competitive play :v:

[QUOTE=rolfum;53171295]I said serious competitive play[/QUOTE] Ah yes. Veteran players taking the game seriously with mostly 6s classes in a prize pool tournament isn't good enough, so what do you define as "serious competitive play"? ESEA Invite? LAN finals? Because yes, let's balance a class that isn't run at the highest levels around a format that barely resembles the flagship game experience that 80% of the player base plays. The point is to unite the two on the side of skill based gameplay, which the current pyro is the opposite of. Of course you have to balance around competitive, but there has to be some allowance for things that are overtly disruptive to the general game, as well.

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53171200]Well now you're just splitting hairs. Is the weapon meant to deal max damage against a limitless number of enemies standing in it's range? No. But you can accomplish that already questionable feat with an absolute lack of skill. The broken flames give the flamethrower too much power, hence the term. By valve hasn't made fixing ostensibly the biggest problem in casual right now priority one is beyond m- Wait. Valve. Never mind.[/QUOTE] If your team is grouped up and all manage to let a pyro get in range and you all can't manage to kill him with all your combined damage you deserve to get demolished. The only issue with current pyro is that pyro doesn't have to aim to do it. That is a BIG problem, a central point of TF2 is that if you're better at the game than your opponent you should be able to outmaneuver them and kill them. But pyro doesn't have too much power, soldier and scout have more power than he does. The problem is his horrible skill curve, not his actual damage output, which is pretty much fine.

the issue with that skill curve is that the current particle system in the flamethrower negates it because its either is broken or its poorly implemented, and i'm willing to bet they never figured how to properly do so (implement a system hat rewarded accuracy and leading of the stream to maximize output damage) or because they ran out of time and somehow forgot to either update it (if they had it done) and just ship it as it was hoping for the best(wich i fear might be the case). you can still dogfight another pyro and outmaneuver him and its even more posible to do so, use terrain to get tackle down and harass people with your flames and you will not get ten years of afterburn if you just got one tick of a flame by accident, they finally fixed the phlog's flames to actually be a stream of particles and not a misleading laser beam, but all of that is obscured by the fact that a newcomer can simply m1 into you and do max damage at any angle, at any range. and even kill you if any lingering fire particles manage to touch you. still, it feels more like the old minisentry in wich years went down the drain before they realised that the thing was not working as it was suposed to be. wich combined with the overall impact of a class-focused update on the ammount of people using said class (it has been like this since well, always) makes the class look overpowered as fuck. as someone who has played so much pyro, i can understand why it feels broken as fuck and completely denies the feeling of a "righterous death" when you see in the kill cam that goku.roberto.2009 was just aimlessly waving his mouse at you while you did your best to land consecutive meatshots.

[QUOTE=Metaru;53171835]the issue with that skill curve is that the current particle system in the flamethrower negates it because its either is broken or its poorly implemented, and i'm willing to bet they never figured how to properly do so (implement a system hat rewarded accuracy and leading of the stream to maximize output damage) or because they ran out of time and somehow forgot to either update it (if they had it done) and just ship it as it was hoping for the best(wich i fear might be the case). you can still dogfight another pyro and outmaneuver him and its even more posible to do so, use terrain to get tackle down and harass people with your flames and you will not get ten years of afterburn if you just got one tick of a flame by accident, they finally fixed the phlog's flames to actually be a stream of particles and not a misleading laser beam, but all of that is obscured by the fact that a newcomer can simply m1 into you and do max damage at any angle, at any range. and even kill you if any lingering fire particles manage to touch you. still, it feels more like the old minisentry in wich years went down the drain before they realised that the thing was not working as it was suposed to be. wich combined with the overall impact of a class-focused update on the ammount of people using said class (it has been like this since well, always) makes the class look overpowered as fuck. as someone who has played so much pyro, i can understand why it feels broken as fuck and completely denies the feeling of a "righterous death" when you see in the kill cam that goku.roberto.2009 was just aimlessly waving his mouse at you while you did your best to land consecutive meatshots.[/QUOTE] Pyro's flamethrower could be made much better with the Pyro-related commands Valve added in the Jungle Inferno Update. I again think they'll fix things up only in a bigger update.

wich they should not. its an actual much needed hot fix.

I just thought that the Saxxy winners this year will go to Valve's new offices, maybe they'll see another sfm model like the Hale one or something else new.

Key prices in refined seem to be going up again.

[QUOTE=ASIC;53172115]Key prices in refined seem to be going up again.[/QUOTE] maybe just a correction

Some unused island props Speedboat [t]https://i.imgur.com/ANzn9hS.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/cvZWEWI.png[/t] Silo that looks a bit like something from the early TF2 maps [t]https://i.imgur.com/3Ik5a4D.png[/t] Guard tower, sneak peek at a new Heavy weapon? [t]https://i.imgur.com/xGWd5DW.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/zkDcuye.png[/t] Also the fridge looking things in the lab near last are named incubators :sick:

[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;53168954]Does anyone even legit use the Shove mechanic?[/QUOTE] I've played a fair amount with it on Doublecross. I meme-shoved an ubered Medic off the bridge.

[video=youtube;lNrdqvWpxj4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNrdqvWpxj4[/video]

today's event on NA [B][I]Team Deathmatch[/I][/B], we'll be playing [URL="https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1311009222"]dm_backfort[/URL] followed by convoy and Balloon race in about 3 hours, stay tuned

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53172596][video=youtube;U5K4rbqiuUI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5K4rbqiuUI[/video][/QUOTE] What is that video? It's down now.