TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

Can someone explain what tf2pl is? Is it like faceit? Ive not played tf2 since JI launched.

[QUOTE=Firetornado;53178907]Can someone explain what tf2pl is? Is it like faceit? Ive not played tf2 since JI launched.[/QUOTE] It's an organizer using FaceIt's backend and reward system. pretty much. It also manages its own ELO and divisions for better matchmaking experiences.

[QUOTE=Daakun;53178261]Spy is something I don't get, for competitive. Like, in the chaos of a 12v12 pub game, I can still easily avoid death by spy, save the odd facestab. How is it they're accomplishing anything at all with that offclass?[/QUOTE] well it's because when you play spy in 6s you also have your own teammates that you can use as distractions for instance if you uncloak as your team starts a push the other team will always be shooting at your teammates, so it's not really that hard to get a pick, likewise medics look at bombers so that they can hit better surfs, so their back is usually to you in cases like that

[QUOTE=Jonii;53178113]Sorry, I know this is old, but Exor, you've been making these kinds of posts on Reddit too and I don't think you're giving 6v6 a fair shake. There's no time limit for offclassing. They ban for "ineffective" offclassing, like throwing the game for your team by running an engi to mid or something. You can play all the Pyro and Heavy you want as long as you have an impact that's actively helping your team. The admins have said that if the meta changes, they'll look less harshly on it. Not to mention that Sniper and Spy are already very common plays to make on any point at all besides the initial mid fight. I genuinely believe that 6v6 is the most dynamic and strategic version of this game that we have. Every class has a use, and this new FaceIt system has opened things up to experiment with the meta (again, as long as you aren't actively hurting your team). The beginner hub on TF2PL is especially great for tactical off classing to really turn the tide of a match. I've seen a guy go Spy and just shut down the enemy team over and over because they didn't have that extreme intuition and instant counter play that invite level players would, and this player was just a really effective spy. On a round of Product, I switched from Soldier to Pyro and played pocket for the medic, which led to some reflect kills/saves and great defense from flanking scouts. I realize this post probably doesn't matter, but I feel so passionate about TF2 and I'm really behind what TF2PL is trying to accomplish. 6v6 isn't a mode where you can only play 4 classes or else you'll be banned because people don't like those other classes, and it's unfair to characterize it that way.[/QUOTE] The term [I]offclassing[/I] itself denotes the full-time play of a select few classes to the detriment of others, therefore celebrating an imbalanced gameplay experience.

[video=youtube;Pl0nWF-7uLU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl0nWF-7uLU[/video] [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/828qrr/is_this_even_legal_pyro_post_jungle_inferno/"]source[/URL], they should really tell players that you move slower when backpedaling. edit: added video embed instead of link

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53179359]they should really tell players that you move slower when backpedaling[/QUOTE] it shouldn't even have been a thing. without that "feature" tf2 melee and pyros would have been way less annoying during all those years.

Watching pyros rush you by flailing is painful to watch. I genuinely can't wish hard enough for focus-fire to do more damage than flail like a dumbass. Trying to actually aim should always be a better strategy than not bothering.

I think at this point the entirety of the Facepunch forum is aware that current Pyro lacks skill and is annoying.

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;53179502]I think at this point the entirety of the Facepunch forum is aware that current Pyro lacks skill and is annoying.[/QUOTE] There are a few holdouts...

[QUOTE=Kaiga;53179547]There are a few holdouts...[/QUOTE] Who says otherwise?

I'm a little late on the talk about Titanium Tank, but my post in their feedback thread confirmed that if they do any other MVM contests, they will indeed all have a tour at the end of them. [t]http://puu.sh/zBnlo/97ebd5ddc9.png[/t]

I wonder who at Valve not only knew how to play the bagpipes, but also play them extremely badly for the Bad Pipes taunt.

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;53179579]Who says otherwise?[/QUOTE] me hehehe. i have my unpopular opinions on him. I wuldnt say he completely lacks skill, but do agree he can be frustrating. i have more to say but dont know if itd start an unnecessary flame war again. so ill just leave it at that.

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53179676]I wonder who at Valve not only knew how to play the bagpipes, but also play them extremely badly for the Bad Pipes taunt.[/QUOTE] Could be stock audio. Otherwise I don’t think you necessarily need to know how to play them to play them badly.

[QUOTE=chandlerj333;53179815]Could be stock audio. Otherwise I don’t think you necessarily need to know how to play them to play them badly.[/QUOTE] I think they do the taunt music in-house with their orchestra pieces, would be funny if one guy new how to play the bagpipes and never gets to show it after Meet the Demoman and DeGroot Keep, then the one time he can he has to play them badly.

[QUOTE=X marks it;53179428]Watching pyros rush you by flailing is painful to watch. I genuinely can't wish hard enough for focus-fire to do more damage than flail like a dumbass. Trying to actually aim should always be a better strategy than not bothering.[/QUOTE] They could probably make a system where each flame particle stores your camera's angle and if it's X° or more than it was 10 frames ago then it creates a slight "Y% inaccuracy damage penalty" to it. They could also come up with an actually good idea that I didn't theorize in 15 seconds but then again who knows

[QUOTE=Ghostlier;53179952]They could probably make a system where each flame particle stores your camera's angle and if it's X° or more than it was 10 frames ago then it creates a slight "Y% inaccuracy damage penalty" to it.[/QUOTE] That would actively punish people with higher mouse sensitivity.

[QUOTE=Ghostlier;53179952]They could probably make a system where each flame particle stores your camera's angle and if it's X° or more than it was 10 frames ago then it creates a slight "Y% inaccuracy damage penalty" to it. They could also come up with an actually good idea that I didn't theorize in 15 seconds but then again who knows[/QUOTE] The best and probably easiest solution would be to track how many consecutive particles have hit. If it's a steady stream of particles it'll deal maximum damage. If the stream is interrupted by flailing or missing flames then it'll deal insignificant damage. That way it'll reward players with good CQC-tracking with a predictable stream of damage. As another note, there is currently a thing that tracks consecutive particles hit already. Which at the moment judges how long afterburn will last from a flamer.

Are there generally good times of the day to find the potato servers empty to join the Titanium MvM tour? Just seems that they're always full and it's taking a long time to get into any of the servers lol. Also, could someone give me the list of map names perhaps so I can download them all and maybe fly through them by myself to see how the level set ups are? Might as well get an idea on how the maps are designed while I wait to get into a server...

[QUOTE=X marks it;53179960]The best and probably easiest solution would be to track how many consecutive particles have hit. If it's a steady stream of particles it'll deal maximum damage. If the stream is interrupted by flailing or missing flames then it'll deal insignificant damage. That way it'll reward players with good CQC-tracking with a predictable stream of damage. As another note, there is currently a thing that tracks consecutive particles hit already. Which at the moment judges how long afterburn will last from a flamer.[/QUOTE] Isn't the whole trouble with new flames that particles are very likely to be hitting consecutively regardless? Even if many of your particles miss, you're still hitting consecutively as long as at least 1 is still in the hitbox. There won't be an interruption in hits unless you miss long enough for all the previous particles to die or exit the hitbox. Unless you mean the system should count the number of individual particles hitting, in which case why not just have them deal damage individually?

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53179338]The term [I]offclassing[/I] itself denotes the full-time play of a select few classes to the detriment of others, therefore celebrating an imbalanced gameplay experience.[/QUOTE] The reason for the "offclassing" term is that the core four classes are the easiest to use for switching between attack and defense on 5CP, which is the most played maptype for competitive. They're the "main" classes because they're generally good in all situations. "Offclasses" have a specific role that they fill in a game. Sniper and Spy are "pick classes" because they're there to get a kill on an important player. We have seen a few full time pyros in high level competitive matches lately, and it's well known that if you don't tactically go heavy and/or engi on last, you lose. All classes have a part to play. All classes have a use. Scout, Soldier, and Demo are the most powerful and dynamic in the hands of a good player because of the way they're designed, which is why you see them most. Just because you call a goalie a goalie doesn't mean he's not important in football/hockey. TF2 is a game about momentum. You pick aggressive classes to gain momentum and push forward to gain more ground. You switch to defensive classes to halt enemy momentum.

Is anyone else just really tense regarding the next update? Like, with Jungle Inferno, we at least had a contest and eventual announcement that there was going to be an update in the future, but now we just have nothing to go off of. At this point the next update could be [I]anything![/I] It could be you! It could be me! It could even be.... a really bad joke.

[QUOTE=Jonii;53180201]The reason for the "offclassing" term is that the core four classes are the easiest to use for switching between attack and defense on 5CP, which is the most played maptype for competitive. Sniper and Spy are "pick classes" because they're there to get a kill on an important player. We have seen a few full time pyros in high level competitive matches lately, and it's well known that if you don't tactically go heavy and/or engi on last, you lose. All classes have a part to play. All classes have a use. Scout, Soldier, and Demo are the most powerful and dynamic in the hands of a good player because of the way they're designed, which is why you see them most. Just because you call a goalie a goalie doesn't mean he's not important in football/hockey. TF2 is a game about momentum. You pick aggressive classes to gain momentum and push forward to gain more ground. You switch to defensive classes to halt enemy momentum.[/QUOTE] A gamemode that allows for the other classes to be used for great (>1/4) amounts of time would be good for 6s then, I think. Mappers ought to try to make a koth map with a resupply near the point so other classes can be switched to for defense instantly. Or just make a competitive A/D map. Those two gamemodes would have the sort of flow a competitive game needs, but mobility wouldn't be quite as massive a deal (not that it doesn't matter. rocket jumping is still huge for bombing, and on koth that initial midfight would still require mobile classes). Even 3cp has potential if a good map were made for it.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;53180213]A gamemode that allows for the other classes to be used for great (>1/4) amounts of time would be good for 6s then, I think. Mappers ought to try to make a koth map with a resupply near the point so other classes can be switched to for defense instantly. Or just make a competitive A/D map.[/QUOTE] That's ideal, and the pros agree, but competitive TF2 is the way it is because they've tried all of this over the past ten years and found what's the most dynamic, fun to play, and watch.. So here are the issues with that: 1. Resupply near the point means you can switch classes and instantly have full HP and ammo whenever. This is highly highly exploitable. KOTH maps are already small enough that you can just run back or change on death and it's not an issue getting to the point. Not even for Heavy! Also, there are only two well designed/balanced KOTH maps at the moment. 2. There are basically no well designed A/D maps right now, but even if there were more... The whole point of the game then becomes for red to just stalemate the game. You can see on Overwatch League how this can get really boring really fast. 5CP has one big midfight and then basically just becomes A/D, except the defending team can push back and flip the tables. This makes the game really exciting to watch and dynamic to play, and it means each side is constantly switching their tactics throughout the game.

Could 3CP work? (with a better map design than Powerhouse)

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53180236]Could 3CP work? (with a better map design than Powerhouse)[/QUOTE] Problem with this is that it's easy for the winner of the midfight to snowball into the last point and win very, very quickly, which is why it's best to have a buffer between mid and last... and that's why 5CP has five points. :v: Powerhouse tries to solve this by making the last points really hard to push into and really easy to turtle... but that's why games last so long and watching would get boring. Prolander sees more modes, maps, and a higher percentage of class play, so if that's more interesting to you than 6s, I suggest you look it up! It's also fun to watch (but not as fun or dynamic as 6s imo).

[QUOTE=Jonii;53180226]That's ideal, and the pros agree, but competitive TF2 is the way it is because they've tried all of this over the past ten years and found what's the most dynamic, fun to play, and watch.. So here are the issues with that: 1. Resupply near the point means you can switch classes and instantly have full HP and ammo whenever. This is highly highly exploitable. KOTH maps are already small enough that you can just run back or change on death and it's not an issue getting to the point. Not even for Heavy! Also, there are only two well designed/balanced KOTH maps at the moment. 2. There are basically no well designed A/D maps right now, but even if there were more... The whole point of the game then becomes for red to just stalemate the game. You can see on Overwatch League how this can get really boring really fast. 5CP has one big midfight and then basically just becomes A/D, except the defending team can push back and flip the tables. This makes the game really exciting to watch and dynamic to play, and it means each side is constantly switching their tactics throughout the game.[/QUOTE] I'm kind of curious if KotH would work if instead of just one point they had KotH maps with three points instead. Give it a 5 minute timer, but make it that each point speeds up the clock, making it ideal to own at least 2 points at any given time.

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;53180248]I'm kind of curious if KotH would work if instead of just one point they had KotH maps with three points instead. Give it a 5 minute timer, but make it that each point speeds up the clock, making it ideal to own at least 2 points at any given time.[/QUOTE] Then you get people just running around in a circle back capping and having fights that are only 4 on 4... Or it would devolve into each team just capping their own point and fighting over one. Which is just KOTH. :v:

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53180236]Could 3CP work? (with a better map design than Powerhouse)[/QUOTE] It would be over either really quickly, or drag on forever, powerhouse aside. Explanation: 6s and 5cp are awesome because you get the best of both speed-fueled rollout and team fight gameplay at mid, and hold busting last-second caps at the last point, with enough game space and time (second still needs to be capped even if you get wiped out at mid) for teams to salvage numbers and repush or seize control of the game. Depending on the map design, unless it's an extremely well constructed layout or one with purposeful elements to spend time navigating around, the team that wins mid will simply chase the fleeing players- except this time they're already pushed back to last at already low numbers. The outcome of the match may very well depend on how many players you lose during the midfight, and after a certain point it becomes pointless to attempt repushing, since there's no second to give up in exchange for a harder last hold which you can use a successful defense of to build momentum for one. By the same token, if the map is so damned big or turtle-y like powerhouse, a team might straight up abandon mid when the fight starts to go south, due to realizing "well, our only other option is to hard hold last" and have the time to actually park the bus, leading the game's pace to bottom out. 2nd points are helpful buffers.

[QUOTE=Jonii;53180254]Then you get people just running around in a circle back capping and having fights that are only 4 on 4... Or it would devolve into each team just capping their own point and fighting over one. Which is just KOTH. :v:[/QUOTE] Eh... It was worth a shot lol... Thought it could be a fair compromise between 5CP's push to constantly swap between attacking and defending while offering some risk vs reward scenario's too. Like being down a lot of time and wiping the enemy and capturing all 3 points to significantly decrease your teams count down ( while the enemy doen't go down at all ) for a come back win might spark a potential new means to play the game and offer something fresh to the ordeal. Still wouldn't mind actual maps like this be made for casual though... Kind of a new twist to and old game mode and 12 v 12 should be fine with it.