TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6 - Year of the Guard Dog SURVEY IN OP - Games

I was looking at github bug reports and I saw [URL="https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/816"]one[/URL] that says cl_interp was removed and replaced with cl_interp_ratio (with interp time being the ratio divided by cl_updaterate) in the HL2 Ep1 version of Source, but the Orange Box release brought it back for some reason, so it's redundant and it says it should be removed.

[QUOTE=CMS2000;53202677]What would you replace End of the War with?[/QUOTE] a coat of black paint and the oWn logo, for drama overdrive.

Wasn't oWn made as a joke from someone waiting to go the airport or something and then people started unironically liking it?

I'm never gonna be able to get over the fact that for years edgy tweens have been putting their GMod TF2 OCs into a faction that's just a parody of a 90s WCW stable consisting of Hulk Hogan, Scott Hall, and Kevin Nash

I hope eventually they filter all the Heavy and Demo lines to be more consistent (I heard they lost the original Heavy filter, don't know if they had one for Demo)

oWn part 6 never. why live.

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53202794]I hope eventually they filter all the Heavy and Demo lines to be more consistent (I heard they lost the original Heavy filter, don't know if they had one for Demo)[/QUOTE] that makes sense why both sound different in their newer voice lines.

There was a filter on the Heavy/Demo's voices?

[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;53202825]There was a filter on the Heavy/Demo's voices?[/QUOTE] People say that but I haven't seen any proof of it (do you honestly think anyone on the TF2 team would ever say "We lost the original voice filter for one of the classes?"). [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZlfMdwFUTg"]There's a 9 year old video of the Heavy's voice actor[/URL] doing heavy voice lines, but it has pretty poor quality video and audio and it's outside with background noise. I think the main issue is that he seems to be pretty old and probably can't do the voices as well as he was able to a decade ago. His age isn't on his IMDB page but based on his bio and pictures of him I'm guessing he's between 50-60 years old.

If they don't use a filter for Schwartz's lines, don't know why the Heavy MvM lines are so incredibly deep (I know it could be that Heavy is older, but he sounds like a demon in MvM :v:) when the Demo MvM lines sound fine. Maybe they told him to go deeper for an older Heavy but he overdid it and his deep voice scared the voice recording team so they couldn't tell him to record them again :v:

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53202898]when the Demo MvM lines sound fine.[/QUOTE] what demo mvm lines?

what truly goes filtered is the pyro voicelines, as proved by the unfiltered, accidentally relased voicelines the class got for the 2015 scream fortress.

[QUOTE=Metaru;53203014]what truly goes filtered is the pyro voicelines, as proved by the unfiltered, accidentally relased voicelines the class got for the 2015 scream fortress.[/QUOTE] Unfiltered pyro voice lines sound like a episode of pingu [video=youtube;-YSr5xllmZ0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YSr5xllmZ0[/video] Also what about the new "old" payload voice lines that valve "fixed" to play when some classes push the payload like for demo or medic.

Those sound like the default Pyro voicelines, filtered or not. As in, those are the ones in the game, are they not?

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;53203210]Those sound like the default Pyro voicelines, filtered or not. As in, those are the ones in the game, are they not?[/QUOTE] They are,from the 2013 halloween before they fixed them,not exacly unfiltered but its the closest of what i know of.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;53202975]what demo mvm lines?[/QUOTE]He got multiple revive and gate-related lines with Two Citites

[QUOTE=JugadorXEI;53202105]I didn't keep charged shots in mind while I was making that statement since, on the video I made, I was comparing quickscope Sniper Rifle headshots and Ambassador headshots. While I do think you're right about the charged shots outdamaging Ambassador headshots, I had in mind quick, on-the-go headshots that occassionally both Spies and Snipers do then they spot a target which may take cover or go out of their vision in a whim, among other opportunistic situations. The video was originally made because people liked to compare the Sniper Rifle and Ambassador, but they forget both are completely different weapons which only share one mechanic, so my tests were done on situations were both could be used, which are middle- or close- range engagements. The results are that although the Sniper Rifle has good burst damage, the Ambassador has better DPS in general.[/quote] I feel like your testing methodology was flawed. For one, the Ambassador shot 11 times in the video. After shot 6, it would've needed a 1.16 second reload delay before it could start firing again, during which time the Heavy would continue to regen and the effective DPS would drop. The Sniper Rifle was functioning as it does in normal play, while the Ambassador was not. Secondly, if we're doing an honest comparison of the weapons, we can't compare the Ambassador at theoretical max efficiency (every shot is a headshot with perfect timing and within 512 HU to ensure 102 damage) while the Sniper Rifle is being used suboptimally. Even in these suboptimal circumstances, the Ambassador only wins in DPS by tenths of a second, an advantage that disappears after the first reload. This is also assuming inhuman perfect timing and aim on more consecutive headshots. [quote]On a close- or middle-range scenario, a Sniper would not be safe enough to charge a shot because of enemy harassment. Again, in this case, I am comparing Sniper Rifle quick-scopes with Ambassador headshots, in a situation where both can be compared against each other.[/quote] Even with this being the case, the lack of reloads in your testing means a key factor is missing. You also aren't counting other real-world factors, like the fact that the Spy engaging in 512 HU is asking to be killed, or that the Sniper Rifle has no such range limit on its quickscope effectiveness. The Ambassador headshot's DPS is better than the Rifle...for 6 perfect shots...if you don't count charged Sniper shots...if you're within 512 HU (ramp-up range for everything else)...and you don't count reload time, which causes it to lose its advantage pretty quickly. You failed to mention any of these caveats in your original post. [quote]Furthermore, in order for a Sniper to do a charged-enough headshot to kill a Heavy, that would take 0.2s (time you need to be zoomed in before you can headshot) + 1.3s (zoom-in charge delay) + 1.65s (50% charge, 300 damage on headshot, 100 on bodyshot) = 3.15 seconds. On Spy's case, he has to wait spread recovery three times for three headshots, so 0.95s * 3 shots = 2.85 seconds. In other words, on a 50%-charged Sniper Rifle headshot against three Ambassador headshots, the Ambassador is faster on killing a Heavy.[/quote] I'm pretty sure that the .2s before headshots can be done isn't cumulative with the rest, but I think you're right. I'll concede that the Ambassador would get the job done quicker in this situation. But I'll also counter that this scenario wouldn't happen, and that the Heavy is still likely to shred the Spy/Sniper to pieces if they're within 512 HU of him. This is the range where Heavy's DPS will be anywhere between 400-540 per second, and the minigun only takes .87s to get wound up. Even if you round that up to a full second, that's both of those classes deader than dead in 2 seconds flat, and neither of them can deal 300 damage that quickly. Also...where are they running into this completely unrevved Heavy with no teammates? This doesn't sound remotely close to a real-world scenario for either class. For it to be the case for the Sniper, he'd have to be overextended beyond belief and...not charging a shot for some reason, and for Spy he'd be in position but...not stabbing an oblivious target? [quote]Zooming in as a Sniper also lowers your mouse sensitivity. This means you have to flicker and move your mouse even more in other to compensate for the zoomed-in state, which, even though it's helpful on long range engagements, it isn't on middle- to close- range ones. The Ambassador doesn't have to worry about zoom changes at all, and considering how professional CS:GO players can hit heads with their AKs when they're the size of a nail, it's something that can be trained for and put on to the test. I'm not saying it's inherently easier to hit smaller targets (heads) with the Ambassador, but compared to the Sniper Rifle (on middle- or close-range), in which you have to zoom in and compensate for the sensitivity, it is easier in general, since Spies don't have to worry about a zoom mechanic unlike Snipers, and train for it.[/quote] I'll concede that close range headshots are easier to execute with the Ambassador than with the Sniper Rifle, but headshots in general in this game take place at a much longer range, especially where the Sniper Rifle is concerned. When we talk about actual "sniping", the Sniper Rifle is at a huge advantage when compared to the Ambassador, even before the nerf. [quote]500 Hu to 1000 Hu (think 2fort bridge). Any further than 1000 Hu (or 1200 Hu? YMMV) is long range. You have to be relatively close as a Revolver-using Spy to inflict 150 damage on your enemy (which would be 3 shots), and on middle-range not only it would take more than three, but the random Revolver spread would also make some of your shots miss. So I wouldn't say myself that it's a reliable way of doing damage.[/quote] Revolver spread isn't that big. [video=youtube;c9PWNPOARfY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9PWNPOARfY[/video] If you're aiming your Revolver at center-of-mass and aren't exceeding 1000 HU, you're going to hit your shots. All Revolvers have a tighter cone as far as spread is concerned, so the stock Revolver is actually extremely reliable in what you define as midrange. It's easier to use than the Ambassador as well, for reasons I don't think I need to explain. Were the Revolver not a reliable way of doing damage, it wouldn't be a favorite among Spies in Plat. Most Spy mains I know playing in Plat/Silver HL right now are running stock over Ambassador since its nerfs, and they're right to. It's just a better weapon right now. [quote]Depends on how "close", and since this is sort of anecdotal I don't want to tackle much on it. Clever spies who use their surroundings to their advantage can cloak away if things go awry, and it would be foolish to just fight completely in the open. Pyros do know when they hit a cloaked Spycicle Spy because of the distinct flame sounds, but track? That requires reliably reading like a book where the Spy is moving for a full second (until fire immunity fades away). That should be enough for a Spy to move the hell away from the flames at that point.[/QUOTE] The point I was making is that players at and above my level can deal with Spies extremely reliably, regardless of what watch or knife they happen to be running. I don't know a single Pyro in Silver who can't track a DR-Spy-cicle Spy, especially not since the horrid flame buffs, and classes like Scout and Soldier often chase after the Spy as well in this setting. It really doesn't matter how "clever" you are as a Spy if you're playing against a coordinated team and they know what they're doing. As soon as you're noticed, you're dead in the next 5 seconds unless you were very far away or get very, very, [I]very[/I] lucky. I highly recommend watching some Plat/Silver Spy demos to get a better idea of what I'm getting at here. I appreciate the effort you put into your testing and research- and I still don't even disagree with your conclusion- but your testing methodology was flawed (which made some of your points flawed) and I feel like you're lacking a lot of key insight that comes with a lot of experience with Spy (especially comp Spy) to say the things you're saying.

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53202898]If they don't use a filter for Schwartz's lines, don't know why the Heavy MvM lines are so incredibly deep (I know it could be that Heavy is older, but he sounds like a demon in MvM :v:) when the Demo MvM lines sound fine. Maybe they told him to go deeper for an older Heavy but he overdid it and his deep voice scared the voice recording team so they couldn't tell him to record them again :v:[/QUOTE] The bigger proof Heavy uses a filter is that he sounds perfect in the same year's as MvM Halloween.

oh nice old thread's back

Why are there so few unusual effects colored yellow or team-based? This would be awesome in a australium / team-based variant. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1330901474

Oh boy, we're back. I thought the Saxxy Drama entries were kind of silly. Definitely not people's strong suit, and TF2 is not known for dramatic moments, although admitedly the bar is set pretty high for such entries to the point that unless you don't try your hardest, people are going to see it as incredibly edgy. My favourite of the nominees was Pointless, but not by a long shot. It felt like it was trying to be vague with its resolution so I could gather my own thoughts whether what the Heavy eventually found was a good or a bad thing. I was struggling to figure out what was even going on in Gravigen. Granted, I watched it at 2 am, but it seemed to be like a videogame world of sorts related to gravity? It wasn't really bad and had the most effort put into it, but I didn't really enjoy it that much. Maybe it was rushed? But I think it had the most effort put into overall, so I wouldn't be surprised if it won. End of the War was super rough and cheesy. Saxton Hale dying? Medic was a bad guy all along but not really? Both the Heavy and the Medic survive a 20-storey fall off a VSH map? And the animation was, well, rough. Definitely the least enjoyable of the bunch because my willing suspension of disbelief was broken the fastest in that entry. Legacy is... okay. It's neat but also still cheesy. It felt like if it used different or original character models, it could've done a better job at conveying its message because you have to willingly think of the characters used as being someone other than their TF2 counterparts for it to work. Animation and music choice was nice, only real issue are the character models used, so I'd say it's a contender. As for the rest of the nominees from other categories: pretty good! This year's saxxies has brung really, really good entries, and it makes me happy to see TF2 Classic models used, like the Mercenary. Too bad we didn't get a TF2 Classic short, but at least Meet the Janitor got an honorable mention, so that's good enough in my books. Looking forward to see the winners.

TTh thing that really took me out of legacy was that THE ENGINEER WAS SCOUT'S DAD. Like that's just too much, I can't handle engineer being scout's dad.

drama saxxies have always been a shit show and incredibly difficult to pull of given the fact that they use characters which are 90% of the times seen in a humorous context Wrapping said context and style in with drama is an art in itself and is the key in creating good TF2 drama, the comics are the best example of this https://i.imgur.com/gAqP9fp.jpg The situation unfolding is incredibly stupid and insane yet is kinda heartwarming and dramatic, obviously SFM makers dont have access to proper voice acting which would likely ruin the moment which is why the best drama entries use Robots - Story of a Sentry, that one entry where that one robit got sentient, you know it. EDIT: How the fuck do I make images smol thumbnail doesnt work anymore and I dont recognize half the people because of new avatars aaa

Hopefully this merges. Let's agree to disagree, but I think you're looking way too far into me shooting at a target around 50 times for the sake of gathering some data. The same way the Ambassador does not reload because it's meant to be a constant DPS test in my video, players wouldn't also find a nigh-unkillable, stationary Heavy to shoot at. Even if it did reload, the first 6 shots still show that the Ambassador has higher DPS (although by a short margin) whereas the Sniper Rifle, in the first 3 shots, has better burst potential, and that's where I was trying to get at in the first place. Next tests will have reload times to better represent DPS, although I do struggle to think when would a Spy need to shoot his entire Ambassador clip to headshot somebody, because 3 headshots should be enough in most cases. Is it suboptimal to shoot at a target as a Spy when you could just backstab them? Absolutely, this I am not discussing at all. Is it suboptimal to bring a Sniper Rifle on close quarters or medium-range engagements? Indeed it is. Yet, you see Snipers occassionally quickscoping and killing other players using their pure raw aiming skill, the same way sometimes you can see some spies around headshooting people with the Ambassador just for the sake of it alongside fun purposes. Even though these are suboptimal situations, flexibility on when and where you can use your weapons do play a factor

the drama category was always a mixed bag since noone really knows how to make a game where big bulky australian men punching yetis into gibs is the norm into something that's dramatic or sad. Honestly the only good drama entry I've ever seen in the saxxys was last year's winner, but I guess if I had to choose a 2nd best it'd be pointless, since it tries something different like living in obscurity with a existential twist.

Weren't there talks about a minor balancing update, or something? It bothers me that we never get any sort of confirmation from Valve aside from little whispers around the community and b4nny.

There were, but noone really knows anything for sure, B4nny might know a bit more than us, but even he probably isn't sure if it'll actually come out anytime soon

there were but as others have said, we are still waiting for it, im personally hoping that its only taking so long because they are fixing pyro also why in the world is the optimistic rating gone how can MUS function without it

there is literally zero reason we have to endure pyro's problems for 5 months and counting.

Depends on how difficult it is, which it could be an easy fix. But I've at least not let it get to me as I still find it fairly easy to manage enemy pyro's on the majority of classes. Hard one oddly enough is dealing with Pyro's as the Pyro himself...