TF2 General Chat and Update Speculation Station - One of Several Edition - Games

[QUOTE=ics;52614381]I have been optimistic about seeing yet another Valve made map at Halloween but at the light of the past 2 years and this whole update thing sliding all the time further, closer to halloween, i'm still in between hope and loss. They may have had worked on halloween map in the background but they also may have not done any work for halloween. Atleast not untill they get the current update done.[/QUOTE] Honestly I've lost hope that the heavy update will be out this Christmas, much less Valve will be able to put out a Halloween map this year.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52614577]Honestly I've lost hope that the heavy update will be out this Christmas, much less Valve will be able to put out a Halloween map this year.[/QUOTE] The heavy pack. You're funny. That may never come out.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52613263]Valve has failed as a major game developer, and now it's time to move along.[/QUOTE] I both agree and disagree with this statement. In a business sense, Valve has been wildly successful as a game developer and as a company, even in recent years. I may not agree with their business strategy or ethics, but no one can argue their visible, tangible success. While they don't make traditional single player retail games like they used to, they bank millions upon millions of revenue with pretty minimal effort on their end. They've created a system, and it brings in a pretty hefty sum of cash. Valve as a business (whose sole purpose is to make as much money as possible), they're doing pretty alright. However, I agree that they have become out of touch with their original fanbase. And this would make sense, because as a company, they gravitate to whatever makes the most money. I can say with confidence that single player games like the half life series, even if they sold millions of copies, would not generate nearly as much revenue as their new model of steam marketplace and microtransactions. If single player retail games were as profitable as TF2/DOTA2/CSGO economies, we would have had Half-Life many years ago. I am personally not a fan of Valve's game development decisions, especially around Artifact. But I'm willing to bet that despite its mediocre initial reception, that it will ultimately generate more revenue for the company than if they finished HL3. And that is why we've never gotten the sequel after all these years. While it would be profitable, it wouldn't be profitable [I]enough[/I] to make it worth their time.

After Half-Life: Episode Two released, Gabe Newell spoke pretty confidently about HL2: Episode Three. I would imagine some really bad shit happened during its development, that's why Gabe became more and more quiet, becoming completely quiet in 2010. Now people just sometimes try to start developing HL2:EP3/HL3, always failing to get friction and going back to the zero. Of course, it could be Valve has a gigantic 20 year plan related to VR and both HL2:EP3 and HL3 which was created when bad stuff happened, and that could be the reason why Valve is silent about Half-Life and not selling HL to someone. Of course, probably there is nothing related to future HL games inside Valve, aside from concept art and some tests. Valve sees us as "Valve customers and fans", not as "TF2/HL customers and fans". That's why if they speak about a new product, they usually talk about us "customers" in general, talking how we "all" are a single community. That's how it pretty much works in Valve too: Valve is pretty much Dota and VR. Thus, they don't feel urgency to ship a new HL game. But I don't think the Pyro Update is the last TF2's update. It's [I]clear[/I] that TF Team has a long term plan for the game. They wouldn't promise two updates in a row and try to make their own competitive mode and Valve willing to give prize money when that is done if that wasn't the case. In an optimistic standpoint, Valve could flock to TF2 if the Pyro Update turns out to be a success. TF Team is taking as much time as possible to the Update to make it as perfect as possible. It's fucking gigantic, too. They want to make the Pyro Update the Update that makes TF2 mainstream, the Update that makes people interested in competitive TF2. They can take as much time as they want, because, it's true: we will come play TF2 when the Pyro Update releases no matter after how long Update will ship. However, PC Gamer is still wrong; Valve said the "update will be out plenty of time before Halloween." So, the conclusion is: HL series are probably fucked, TF2 is not. Edit:Boy, a new page!

Quite honestly if this goes to 2018 i'm really gonna be upset. No matter if it's good or not. It's been so long. We are all slowly kind of decaying here.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52613603]At least they're doing that. Also, speaking of valve and vaporware updates, PC Gamer seems to have thrown their hat into the speculation ring, and [URL="http://www.pcgamer.com/2017-shooters/"]called the pyro update for October 10th, the TF2 birthday.[/URL][/QUOTE] Why are they saying that with so much confidence? They don't know more than we do, do they?

[QUOTE=Fluury;52614799]Why are they saying that with so much confidence? They don't know more than we do, do they?[/QUOTE] Valve said the "update will be out plenty of time before Halloween."

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;52614825]Valve said the "update will be out plenty of time before Halloween."[/QUOTE] I know that, however this seems kinda weird. Then again I dont read PC Gamer. Is it normal for them to make claims like this?

[QUOTE=Fluury;52614880]I know that, however this seems kinda weird. Then again I dont read PC Gamer. Is it normal for them to make claims like this?[/QUOTE] PC Gamer is occasionally an example of the downside of modern (particularly gaming) journalism. I've seen everything from enlightened critiques, to nonsensical and uninformed opinions shat together into op-ed 'articles'.

So, I was pretty tired of there not being a phyisical version of the TF comics, so I decided to get my own made. Issue #1 came out pretty well I think, so I'll be getting the next issues printed out over time aswell. Had to do a bit of editing on some "pages" so that puns would work (e.g. when in the digital version you need to click the image, only for it to be replaced by a slightly different image). I also used a couple of poster images from The Music of TF2, for the interior of the cover and backcover. [sp]Sorry for the poor quality pictures, only had my phone at hand[/sp] [t]http://puu.sh/xjU1C/0c78d7f9cd.jpg[/t][t]http://puu.sh/xjUoG/e2867a6acd.jpg[/t][t]http://puu.sh/xjU61/808f4d1934.jpg[/t] [t]http://puu.sh/xjUf8/2b862d254b.jpg[/t][t]http://puu.sh/xjUs7/9ce3fc76d8.jpg[/t][t]http://puu.sh/xjUjk/5d10a5f9b1.jpg[/t] [t]http://puu.sh/xjUks/95fa165470.jpg[/t][t]http://puu.sh/xjUlq/ce253584a1.jpg[/t][t]http://puu.sh/xjUmd/dc403fd29e.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Ace of Butts;52614367]I wonder if any work on Team Fortress 3 has even begun or at least been humored by Valve.[/QUOTE] I can't think of a single reason for TF3.

[QUOTE=Drury;52614960]I can't think of a single reason for TF3.[/QUOTE] There's no need for a new plot or title, just some something like dota 2's Reborn, which is what people are expecting the pyro update to be for TF2, but let's be real here, this is valve, and that would be a lot of work for less money than VR or artifact. Here's a reason: A better, more modern game engine/base to work off of, that doesn't have dung for hit detection and something break during even the most minor of updates? Either that, or the TF team is being paid WAAAYY too much for how bad they are at coding these patches. (Which seems unlikely based on the impressive résumé you need at valve)

The most that's been humored and worked on in small parts at valve is the port to Source 2, but it's a fucking huge amount of work and the team is already constantly fragmenting itself to work on new VR stuff, and not TF2.

[QUOTE=JPRAS;52614931]So, I was pretty tired of there not being a phyisical version of the TF comics, so I decided to get my own made. Issue #1 came out pretty well I think, so I'll be getting the next issues printed out over time aswell. Had to do a bit of editing on some "pages" so that puns would work (e.g. when in the digital version you need to click the image, only for it to be replaced by a slightly different image). I also used a couple of poster images from The Music of TF2, for the interior of the cover and backcover. [sp]Sorry for the poor quality pictures, only had my phone at hand[/sp][/QUOTE] How do you deal with the panel switcheroos?

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;52614825]Valve said the "update will be out plenty of time before Halloween."[/QUOTE] They also said they were moving offices in July, Valve says a lot of things.

[QUOTE=RetroMike;52615163]They also said they were moving offices in July, Valve says a lot of things.[/QUOTE] An entire office move =/= the TF Team releasing an update

[QUOTE=Fluury;52615185]An entire office move =/= the TF Team releasing an update[/QUOTE] The point being that they have said a lot of things they don't stick to. It will be unfortunate if it gets pushed back to mid Sept or later but I'm at the point where even that wont surprise me. I've kinda just dropped all expectations now, which is saying something because I had already tempered them heavily.

[QUOTE=RetroMike;52615197]The point being that they have said a lot of things they don't stick to. It will be unfortunate if it gets pushed back to mid Sept or later but I'm at the point where even that wont surprise me. I've kinda just dropped all expectations now, which is saying something because I had already tempered them heavily.[/QUOTE] Valve doesn't equal the TF Team. Not saying that the TF Team hasn't broken any promises in the past, however we shouldn't start to take everything they say with a grain of salt.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;52615159]How do you deal with the panel switcheroos?[/QUOTE] It really depends from each situation, but I try to include both versions (before/after) without interfering with the flow of the comic, like so: [img]http://puu.sh/xjZAy/ff8c2ee2ca.jpg[/img] Adjustments like this aren't perfect, but I think they work well enough for what it is.

[url]https://www.twitch.tv/essentialstf[/url] If you guys arent watching, i61 day2 is starting soon and they're playing some throwback clips.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52613263]Valve has failed as a major game developer, and now it's time to move along.[/QUOTE] Oh [I]come on[/I]. Three of Valve's major multiplayer games are still in the top ten most played games on Steam. This is the problem I have when anything ever goddamn happens with Half Life, or L4D, or lack of an update to TF2. Everyone comes out and announces it's time to wipe your hands of this company because it doesn't do games you're interested in anymore! You have to be [I]objective.[/I] Valve may have "failed" as a major [I]single-player[/I] game developer, but the livelyhood of CS:GO and Dota 2 (with the side-dish of TF2 still being popular enough to rank) is attestment to their non-failure as a major multiplayer game developer. Am I saying it's wrong to be upset that the Valve that made Half-Life, Left 4 Dead 2 and Portal is mostly "dead"? Of course not, but to tout out things like "Valve has failed!" is completely blind to the status of the rest of the gaming world. [I]Gearbox[/I] has very almost failed - Battleborn was a major flop and they keep making weird publishing decisions, like with G2A. Hell, on a yearly basis EA is WAY closer to failing! Did you see the state of Mass Effect Andromeda and the dull-lifeless emotions expressed by their facial animations? Not to mention the awful writing. And then there's Ubisoft, with For Honor's lack of dedicated servers, Ghost Recon Wildlands' entirety, the Division... I like Half-Life and would love to see an Episode 3, even if it was just straight up what that Epistle thing was. But to basically shove everything else Valve has been succeeding at, (Steam, Dota, CS:GO, TF2, Steam Controllers, VR...) under the bus because it isn't Episode 3? Come on.

Valve is succeeding at TF2? I don't know if an average of approximately 20,000 or so actual players is success when CS, Dota 2, and PUBG are around with 100k or more each. The other companies you cite as comparisons aren't commensurate with Valve insofar as they produce games at a much more accelerated rate. This means they're not only reaching a broader demographic with genres and IPs developed and marketed to different groups, but that when they do err, it's less scandalous in the long term. Don't worry fans of [i]Mass Effect[/i], Andromeda may not have been sensational, but you're guaranteed another installment before too long. In the meantime, it's been a decade since Episode 2. If you're not a fan of Dota (and I know you are, so recent events surrounding Valve are much less painful for you), then Valve does a disservice to thousands of its customers by being neglectful of their passions and desires. Edit: Wait, did you actually mention the Steam Controller? Valve's foray into hardware manufacturing has proven to be less than flattering, and last time I checked, the controller hasn't been selling like hotcakes.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52615635]Valve is succeeding at TF2? I don't know if an average of approximately 20,000 or so actual players is success when CS, Dota 2, and PUBG are around with 100k or more each. [/QUOTE] I was being fair. If I wasn't, I'd say that between Overwatch and probably Paladins, and Valve's lacking support in the past year, that most players have moved on. If I was being incredibly bitter, I'd say TF2 is dead, but I'm optimistic. [quote] If you're not a fan of Dota (and I know you are, so recent events surrounding Valve are much less painful for you), then Valve does a disservice to thousands of its customers by being neglectful of their passions and desires.[/quote] I was as blindsided by Artifact as anyone, and ultimately I'm just interested to see how they handle it on a F2P-basis - if it'll be Dota-style, and all cards are unlocked, but you can get foils/goldens, etc. I've got enough cardgame between attempting to understand Gwent and Hearthstone, thanks. But what would you have Valve do to the [B]hundreds[/B] of thousands who are perfectly happy (or atleast don't care) with Valve just focusing on CS:GO and Dota 2? I've constantly said in the past that I just don't [I]get[/I] CS:GO, but I don't bely its popularity or think that Valve should focus more on TF2 or Dota instead. I've noticed there's a fair amount of people - not just in regards to Valve and TF2, but in gaming communitys in general - that a lot of people just care wholly about their one patch of grass on their side of the fence, without being aware of the multitude of other fences and patches of grass. I'm peeved at Valve for not doing more Portal 2 content and for not doing L4D3 yet, but I'm not exactly gonna stop playing their games forever and scrawl my posts on the wall saying that Valve is dead, long live CD Projekt Red. I don't know. This has turned into a bit more of a ramble than I intended. I think what I mean is I'm fine with people being disheartened, or upset, but some people take things [I]way [/I]too far. The whole MUS-closure drama is testament to that. EDIT: And here's my case in point; [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/app/570/reviews/?p=1&browsefilter=mostrecent#scrollTop=0"]Half-Life fans are reviewbombing Dota 2. [/URL] Come [I]on.[/I]

Valve has literally 0 reason to keep supporting TF2. They make SO much money off of CS:GO and Dota 2 that if they just wiped TF2 off the face of Steam, their income would barely diminish. And if it diminished more significantly than they anticipated, they could.. idk, do a Steam sale. Pretty much everything Valve does gets them more money than TF2. I'm sure the TF2 devs have been asked by the other devs to stop working on their dead game and help out the other teams instead. That isn't to say I don't want them to keep working on TF2. But there really is no incentive. EDIT: and the public outcry against Valve destroying TF2 would be quickly silenced by the masses of CS:GO, Dota 2, Overwatch, etc etc players who also think TF2 is a dead game unworthy of support.

Well yes, that's how people function. Very few people are going to adore all of a company's products, which is why it's usually good practice for a company of Valve's stature to diversify its brand portfolio. Imagine if The Coca-Cola Company suddenly stopped producing Sprite because, hey, Classic Coke sells well enough and those people are happy, so why bother with Sprite?

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52615697]Well yes, that's how people function. Very few people are going to adore all of a company's products, which is why it's usually good practice for a company of Valve's stature to diversify its brand portfolio. Imagine if The Coca-Cola Company suddenly stopped producing Sprite because, hey, Classic Coke sells well enough and those people are happy, so why bother with Sprite?[/QUOTE] But there's a difference between adore-ance and "well okay that's not for me I guess." And The Coca-Cola Company does that with flavors all the time.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52615697]Well yes, that's how people function. Very few people are going to adore all of a company's products, which is why it's usually good practice for a company of Valve's stature to diversify its brand portfolio. Imagine if The Coca-Cola Company suddenly stopped producing Sprite because, hey, Classic Coke sells well enough and those people are happy, so why bother with Sprite?[/QUOTE] I'm sure the amount of Sprite lovers to Coke lovers is way more similar than TF2 players to CS:GO players.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;52615685]Valve has literally 0 reason to keep supporting TF2. They make SO much money off of CS:GO and Dota 2 that if they just wiped TF2 off the face of Steam, their income would barely diminish. And if it diminished more significantly than they anticipated, they could.. idk, do a Steam sale. Pretty much everything Valve does gets them more money than TF2. I'm sure the TF2 devs have been asked by the other devs to stop working on their dead game and help out the other teams instead. That isn't to say I don't want them to keep working on TF2. But there really is no incentive. EDIT: and the public outcry against Valve destroying TF2 would be quickly silenced by the masses of CS:GO, Dota 2, Overwatch, etc etc players who also think TF2 is a dead game unworthy of support.[/QUOTE] I don't think the CS:GO and DotA communities would be happy about TF2 being gone because it'd mean that there would no longer be an active testbed for changes and would instead get their games broken apart by a bad decision or half-finished idea that takes years to renege on while another product gets a polished version of said changes (or just withheld entirely). There's a lot of potential for TF2 that simply isn't being tapped into at all.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;52615709]I don't think the CS:GO and DotA communities would be happy about TF2 being gone because it'd mean that there would no longer be an active testbed for changes and would instead get their games broken apart by a bad decision or half-finished idea that takes years to renege on while another product gets a polished version of said changes (or just withheld entirely). There's a lot of potential for TF2 that simply isn't being tapped into at all.[/QUOTE] What has TF2 recently been a guinea pig for? Contracts? No, CS:GO already does that. Skins? CS:GO. Competitive? literally every other game. TF2 hasn't tested anything for years.

[QUOTE=Jetamo;52615701]But there's a difference between adore-ance and "well okay that's not for me I guess." And The Coca-Cola Company does that with flavors all the time.[/QUOTE] They introduce limited-time products that are normally clearly labeled as such. So while it usually stings when said product doesn't last if you're fond of it, the ephemerality of the entire ordeal is known in advance and better accepted. They're not enticing large swaths of customers with Diet Coke only to abandon it years later because they lost interest in producing it. If Valve didn't just up and abandon us, no one would be resentful of their precious new babies.