TF2 General Chat and Update Speculation Station - One of Several Edition - Games

[QUOTE=Blackavar;52615713]What has TF2 recently been a guinea pig for? Contracts? No, CS:GO already does that. Skins? CS:GO. Competitive? literally every other game. TF2 hasn't tested anything for years.[/QUOTE] Banana Hats.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52615731]They introduce limited-time products that are normally clearly labeled as such. So while it usually stings when said product doesn't last if you're fond of it, the ephemerality of the entire ordeal is known in advance and better accepted. They're not enticing large swaths of customers with Diet Coke only to abandon it years later because they lost interest in producing it.[/QUOTE] This year Coke Zero was outright replaced with "Coke No Sugar". Different recipe/formula. ...I'm not sponsored by Coca-Cola. We should stop going on about Coke.

Trying to improve a product is not equivalent to replacing it. That's like saying Valve replaced [i]Dota 2[/i] when they transitioned to Source 2. If Valve announced a third [i]Team Fortess[/i] most of us would likely be excited, or at the very least, feel like we matter. Only the traders would be alarmed, really.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;52615713]What has TF2 recently been a guinea pig for? Contracts? No, CS:GO already does that. Skins? CS:GO. Competitive? literally every other game. TF2 hasn't tested anything for years.[/QUOTE] TF2 hasn't received anything innovative recently in the first place, instead it's getting content backported from other products. Except for some reason these finished and functional features are broken, poorly structured, or poorly optimized in the transition. Rather than a testbed in recent years, it's getting scraps from CS:GO that are tough to chew. A matchmaking system that was hardly functional on release, skins that would cause sizable framerate drops when loaded into memory, a crate tiering system that no one asked for and still vehemently oppose. Not to mention how what was originally just a joke back in the day in the form of unusual weapons is now a reality. These aren't things for the common player to experience, they're for those willing to drop money on the game for a chance to get a particle effect to show off. While the economy is the driving force behind the game's financing now, there's no doubt that the tangible content has been stagnant to downhill. I'm hopeful that the Jungle/Pyro reinvigorates a focus on that content, but I'm far too burned out.

I would wager Love&War was the last "old valve" update.

[url]https://www.twitch.tv/essentialstf[/url] Finals are on, watch b4nny lose against seven and blame the entire EU.

[QUOTE=Jetamo;52615526]Oh [I]come on[/I]. Three of Valve's major multiplayer games are still in the top ten most played games on Steam. This is the problem I have when anything ever goddamn happens with Half Life, or L4D, or lack of an update to TF2. Everyone comes out and announces it's time to wipe your hands of this company because it doesn't do games you're interested in anymore! You have to be [I]objective.[/I] Valve may have "failed" as a major [I]single-player[/I] game developer, but the livelyhood of CS:GO and Dota 2 (with the side-dish of TF2 still being popular enough to rank) is attestment to their non-failure as a major multiplayer game developer. Am I saying it's wrong to be upset that the Valve that made Half-Life, Left 4 Dead 2 and Portal is mostly "dead"? Of course not, but to tout out things like "Valve has failed!" is completely blind to the status of the rest of the gaming world. [I]Gearbox[/I] has very almost failed - Battleborn was a major flop and they keep making weird publishing decisions, like with G2A. Hell, on a yearly basis EA is WAY closer to failing! Did you see the state of Mass Effect Andromeda and the dull-lifeless emotions expressed by their facial animations? Not to mention the awful writing. And then there's Ubisoft, with For Honor's lack of dedicated servers, Ghost Recon Wildlands' entirety, the Division... I like Half-Life and would love to see an Episode 3, even if it was just straight up what that Epistle thing was. But to basically shove everything else Valve has been succeeding at, (Steam, Dota, CS:GO, TF2, Steam Controllers, VR...) under the bus because it isn't Episode 3? Come on.[/QUOTE] Valve, as a huge, powerful company which shouldn't be managing to screw this up, has failed as TF2's developer. There's no excuse for that. Edit: apparently there is.

:stop:

Theres more to a game being alive than playercount. To many tf2 died when community servers dried up because the sense of community and a group of people you knew frequently was what tf2 was to them, for others tf2 couldve died when a playstyle or weapon was nerfed to oblivion knowing that valve only rebalances a weapon every 3 years. And for others tf2 died when the game took away freedom of choice in exchange for a non working matchmaking system with meet your match. A game being "X played on steam" or having X amount of players doesnt mean the game is healthy or in a good state, especially for a low investment free 2 play title like tf2. And as others have stated people have moved on to other games like Overwatch, warframe, paladins, or rainbow six siege at least this is what ive noticed all my old tf2 friends have been playing instead. Regardless of whether tf2 is the superior game or not noone wants to dedicate themselves to a game that has had no content for over a year when multiple other games in the same genre get dev streams/ videos, regular content updates, and re balancing on a bi-weekly to monthly basis.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;52616265]Theres more to a game being alive than playercount. To many tf2 died when community servers dried up because the sense of community and a group of people you knew frequently was what tf2 was to them, for others tf2 couldve died when a playstyle or weapon was nerfed to oblivion knowing that valve only rebalances a weapon every 3 years. And for others tf2 died when the game took away freedom of choice in exchange for a non working matchmaking system with meet your match. A game being "X played on steam" or having X amount of players doesnt mean the game is healthy or in a good state, especially for a low investment free 2 play title like tf2. And as others have stated people have moved on to other games like Overwatch, warframe, paladins, or rainbow six siege at least this is what ive noticed all my old tf2 friends have been playing instead. Regardless of whether tf2 is the superior game or not noone wants to dedicate themselves to a game that has had no content for over a year when multiple other games in the same genre get dev streams/ videos, regular content updates, and re balancing on a bi-weekly to monthly basis.[/QUOTE] How Valve measures success of the game, isn't any of the things you just said. If their meters show players are playing and money is flowing, things are ok while in reality, this game has been drying up from the inside bit by bit since the death of the community servers and the things you just mentioned. A lot, i mean a lot of my friends who used to play TF2 have moved to other games, like overwatch because they are frustrated to TF2 and how it is today. Even i dont like it as it is. Sure, it's fine to fast casually queue a match but for everything else, it simply fails to deliver. If i wouldn't be making maps which is something that i enjoy doing, i propably wouldnt even playing this game anymore. EDIT I dont really know how valve really measures the game success, but this just shows my own current frustration to the lack of the updates to the game.

It's pretty interesting when people claim "Oh, I know so many people who have moved on from tf2 to this other game" to support themselves that the game has changed or is dying. The consistent player count says otherwise. Maybe it's just natural for players to leave and have new ones take their place? Player count means a lot because it's an actual statistic we can look back at. You can't measure "sense of community". It sounds like people's past experiences are clouding what's right and wrong. I still play TF2 because at it's core the game is amazing, no other game can match up to TF2 when it comes to mechanics.

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;52614755]After Half-Life: Episode Two released, Gabe Newell spoke pretty confidently about HL2: Episode Three. I would imagine some really bad shit happened during its development, that's why Gabe became more and more quiet, becoming completely quiet in 2010. Now people just sometimes try to start developing HL2:EP3/HL3, always failing to get friction and going back to the zero. Of course, it could be Valve has a gigantic 20 year plan related to VR and both HL2:EP3 and HL3 which was created when bad stuff happened, and that could be the reason why Valve is silent about Half-Life and not selling HL to someone. Of course, probably there is nothing related to future HL games inside Valve, aside from concept art and some tests. Valve sees us as "Valve customers and fans", not as "TF2/HL customers and fans". That's why if they speak about a new product, they usually talk about us "customers" in general, talking how we "all" are a single community. That's how it pretty much works in Valve too: Valve is pretty much Dota and VR. Thus, they don't feel urgency to ship a new HL game. But I don't think the Pyro Update is the last TF2's update. It's [I]clear[/I] that TF Team has a long term plan for the game. They wouldn't promise two updates in a row and try to make their own competitive mode and Valve willing to give prize money when that is done if that wasn't the case. In an optimistic standpoint, Valve could flock to TF2 if the Pyro Update turns out to be a success. TF Team is taking as much time as possible to the Update to make it as perfect as possible. It's fucking gigantic, too. They want to make the Pyro Update the Update that makes TF2 mainstream, the Update that makes people interested in competitive TF2. They can take as much time as they want, because, it's true: we will come play TF2 when the Pyro Update releases no matter after how long Update will ship. However, PC Gamer is still wrong; Valve said the "update will be out plenty of time before Halloween." So, the conclusion is: HL series are probably fucked, TF2 is not. Edit:Boy, a new page![/QUOTE] I'll tell you why they havent made hl3/ep3 yet valve is a company about innovation. every single half life game has effectively doubled as a tech demo for whatever new engine/tech they've developed. Half Life demonstrated the power of goldsrc, half life 2 for source and its physics, so half life 3 isnt going to drop until they finish source 2 and develop some sort of new tech for the new engine they're not going to release their flagship franchise on 15 year old technology, and they're not going to release their flagship franchise on their new engine if there's no innovative mechanics/technology, which in today's market is few and far between. Innovation is hard to come by with the power of modern engines. They cant make it a VR exclusive since the VR market is so niche and that would practically kill the franchise for the broad consumerbase, so until source 2 has some new innovative mechanisms, we won't be seeing another half life game but this is for the half life thread, so I'll stop it here

[QUOTE=ics;52616654]I dont really know how valve really measures the game success, but this just shows my own current frustration to the lack of the updates to the game.[/QUOTE] Personally nowadays I think they class game success with overall gained cash, for games like L4D, Half-Life and partly Portal the sum of money they gain from the initial release equals success or not. For games with longevity in mind like CSGO, TF2 and Dota 2. It feels as long as there is a source of cash flow, to them it's a 'success' and doesn't need further tampering with or improvement. Of course I have no evidence on that, it's mainly my opinion from watching Valve evolve as a company into what it is today. Most of my opinion is just built on the fact that the biggest cash gainers (CSGO + Dota 2) receive far more love from Valve's employees than the game which is far more iconic and deserves it too, TF2. However CSGO is even starting to see the short-end of the stick nowadays with hampered operations and cases. Also I'm not saying TF2 doesn't receive any love whatsoever, the current TFTeam members clearly do care about the game otherwise it'd be abandoned. I just long for something to happen where TF2 gets the much needed love and attention it has deserved and needed for so long...

But that's the thing. TF2 could be doing so much better, and be making [I]much more[/I] money for valve, if they put a little effort into it. And therein lies the Valve Problem. Nobody wants to work on something that doesn't make money. But it won't make good money if nobody works on it.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52616718]But that's the thing. TF2 could be doing so much better, and be making [I]much more[/I] money for valve, if they put a little effort into it. And therein lies the Valve Problem. Nobody wants to work on something that doesn't make money. But it won't make good money if nobody works on it.[/QUOTE] Tf2 is just doing "fine/meh" for a 10 years old shooter. Look what they did to css, and the last time I played it was sptermber 2013

[QUOTE=turshitposter;52616736]Tf2 is just doing "fine/meh" for a 10 years old shooter. Look what they did to css, and the last time I played it was sptermber 2013[/QUOTE] CS has GO, and no one is lamenting CSS's loss.

The Valve we wish the current Valve [I]could[/I] be, will probably never be, or isn't able to be.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52616772]CS has GO, and no one is lamenting CSS's loss.[/QUOTE] Css had a better community, and better mods than csgo. They remade the movement in the source branch of csgo and is not the same. Also I might sound like an old man but the new people on the community servers all sound like retards, and not in the good way when you can have a laught and say what a retard. I mean "tsss what a retard" kind of retard

[QUOTE=turshitposter;52616809]Css had a better community, and better mods than csgo. They remade the movement in the source branch of csgo and is not the same. Also I might sound like an old man but the new people on the community servers all sound like retards, and not in the good way when you can have a laught and say what a retard. I mean "tsss what a retard" kind of retard[/QUOTE] Everything you said except the movement mechanics are entirely community-based, Valve can't be held responsible for mod quality or community servers being full of "retards".

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52616849]Everything you said except the movement mechanics are entirely community-based, Valve can't be held responsible for mod quality or community servers being full of "retards".[/QUOTE] I meant that valve didnt update the game as much as they did with tf2, the last "major" update for the game was in 2006 or so. Zombie mod itself was a reason to buy css, it was for me at least, I didnt even know you could do bomb defuses in the game

[QUOTE=JPRAS;52614931]So, I was pretty tired of there not being a phyisical version of the TF comics, so I decided to get my own made. Issue #1 came out pretty well I think, so I'll be getting the next issues printed out over time aswell. Had to do a bit of editing on some "pages" so that puns would work (e.g. when in the digital version you need to click the image, only for it to be replaced by a slightly different image). I also used a couple of poster images from The Music of TF2, for the interior of the cover and backcover.[/QUOTE] Can you upload the images somewhere? I would really love to print a copy for myself!

I really want someone to bring back the [URL="https://web.archive.org/web/20130702160248/https://www.tf2tightrope.com/TheBUE/"]Biggest Update Ever[/URL]. It had some good ideas, even if they were buried under piles and piles of bad ones.

Oh lord, that Heavy nerf--this was compiled by SPUFers I see, back when none of them had any common sense or skill, and irrationally despised Heavy because he soft countered Pyro.

unironically thinking heavy is overpowered is basically wearing a neon sign on your chest that says "I'm A Bad Player"

Is selling random weps for a scrap each dead? I quit trading in 2015 and when I used to say "Buying Manmelter - 1 scrap" - I would be bombarded with trade requests in seconds. Now ... it's completely ignored. I [I]cannot[/I] buy a random wep for a scrap anywhere now. Is it really seen as dead? P.S - I know that I can just swap it on scrap.tf but I keep my profile friends only so I can't use it. And since I quit trading, I don't care about losing "profit", so I'm willing to trade a scrap for em.

[QUOTE=Jboby1;52617480]I really want someone to bring back the [URL="https://web.archive.org/web/20130702160248/https://www.tf2tightrope.com/TheBUE/"]Biggest Update Ever[/URL]. It had some good ideas, even if they were buried under piles and piles of bad ones.[/QUOTE] Some of those ideas look to be really fun, though the Trinnicky would be a little on the busted side, a demoman grenade launcher that has infinite ammo and only a 3 shot clip as a penalty seems silly

[QUOTE='[ToRn];52617700']Is selling random weps for a scrap each dead? I quit trading in 2015 and when I used to say "Buying Manmelter - 1 scrap" - I would be bombarded with trade requests in seconds. Now ... it's completely ignored. I [I]cannot[/I] buy a random wep for a scrap anywhere now. Is it really seen as dead? P.S - I know that I can just swap it on scrap.tf but I keep my profile friends only so I can't use it. And since I quit trading, I don't care about losing "profit", so I'm willing to trade a scrap for em.[/QUOTE] it pretty much is, you won't find a deal in pubs, maybe in a trade server you'll find a new trader interested. It's because half a scrap is worth nothing now, most people would say it's not worth the time to do such a trade

[QUOTE='[ToRn];52617700']Is selling random weps for a scrap each dead? I quit trading in 2015 and when I used to say "Buying Manmelter - 1 scrap" - I would be bombarded with trade requests in seconds. Now ... it's completely ignored. I [I]cannot[/I] buy a random wep for a scrap anywhere now. Is it really seen as dead? P.S - I know that I can just swap it on scrap.tf but I keep my profile friends only so I can't use it. And since I quit trading, I don't care about losing "profit", so I'm willing to trade a scrap for em.[/QUOTE] Last time I tried this was years ago, and I could only get people's attention at rec each. Even then I had to spam like crazy, most people didn't care even for that.

Last night when i wasnt yet sleeping, i took a re-read on valve handbook on their website. Those of you who saw it upon initial release, read it again, it has been updated a lot since. So anyway, if you read between the lines, it also tells you why games like TF2 and CSGO are suffering from lack of content and personnel to work on it. To do tl;dr on it, here's the kicker: People are encouraged to [B]move inside the company[/B]. There are 2 reasons for this, the personnel reviews once a year and the salary. If you do not move around, participate in hiring, new projects, and do the thing that they see as the most important thing for the company (one of the 4 things they think are most valuable in determing the best way to work), you're out of there as you arent a "valve person". [U]If you dedicate your time to only one thing, it's considered bad thing to do.[/U] The people move between the different projects and things because: A) They meet other people who they work with and manage to create new things. This isn't a bad thing keeps company going forward. B) To show they are valuable and working there on different things as they should. Other people who they have met will judge them and their work ethics on personnel review. Their salary also gets decided on how valuable work they do. C) If you dont do this, you arent valuable. If you dedicated work towards something that others dont see important and they tell you to stop, you're not going to get any points for that. D) Moving helps to relax your muscles, so you dont sit all the time. So generally, if a new person comes in and doesn't know what to do and is looking for how he or she can be the most value for the company (the handbook says this is your goal), the thing that they will start doing will not be TF2. By looking the fading update cycle, It's propably considered low priority project by majority of the people and it's really hard to get people involved in making it as it used to be. They know it exists and when someone on the actual TF2 team says "we actually need people to work on this", some join in for a while untill they roll out. There's so many people in the company now that are relatively (they hire 10-15% more people per year vs companys current size) new and they arent working on older projects, but new ones that they could participate and so many old time valve people have left the company too. Valve is missing the what i call "aftermarketing" team. I mean, they have it, people come on and off to older teams but no one stays because A, B and C points i just said. VNN guy Tyler posted a [URL="https://youtu.be/urza2sbU68Q?t=1m"]video on the HL3 thing that Laidlaw published[/URL], but the last paragraph on it, if its really towards Gabe tells exactly the problem Valve currently has as a company. Plenty of people working on new things but no one wants to work on the older things. The older games are left in the wind more and more even though those games and players who play them are HUGE count and part of Valves success. Valve no manager style isnt the problem, it's the issue of finding people to work on things that are important to us, such as TF2, which seem to be considered not the thing you can be most valuable of doing.

So basically the developers of our game(s) consider them not worth their time. Great. Hand over the source code for crowd development immediately. Sheesh, the valve fanboyism, i get it, I get it