TF2 General Chat and Update Speculation Station - One of Several Edition - Games

It was never overpowered.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52635959]It was never overpowered.[/QUOTE] The subsequent nerfs to it indicate the opposite. Yet it's one-dimensional noob design remains it's greatest problem.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52635998]The subsequent nerfs to it indicate the opposite. Yet it's one-dimensional noob design remains it's greatest problem.[/QUOTE] The lack of airblast makes the phlog super weak to soldiers and demos. The only really annoying thing about it is when you turn a corner and are killed basically instantly by a crit pyro you didn't see.

I think the only situations I see a Phlog pyro ever destroy a team is: - Teammates just installed the game. - Pyro has an uber medic girlfriend that pockets them the entire game. - Pyro catches team unaware around a corner. - Pyro uses crits on cap. In the hands of a good strategic player it can be devastating, but stock in the same hands is far superior in every way. Especially since the removal of self-heal for the 'pointless uber' replacement, the self-heal at least had a use.

vainilla phlog was the best selling item because at the time of launch it was the only way to get it. they added crafting and drop chances way later. also vainilla phlog was really fun to use and it was a blast to chain and roam maps like steel with it. the main issue will always be that you can gain meter with flares, wich negate the inherent risk un the "risk and reward" part of the mechanic. even without the self heal it is a reallly nice weapon to mess around in pubs

[QUOTE=dx9er;52636058]I don't understand why this is a thing.[/QUOTE] Because back in 2007 valve thought it would be a good idea to have crits in a fps.

Is there a good way to check TF2's CPU and GPU usage that is not MSI Afterburner? It doesn't work for me for some reason.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52635998]The subsequent nerfs to it indicate the opposite. [/QUOTE] Just because valve decided to nerf it doesn't mean it was actually overpowered. In some cases it might just be an original design that wasn't the most fun to play against, or it could just be that valve made a mistake. I mean hell, by your logic the 10% damage vuln on the damn buffalo steak sandvich made [I]it[/I] overpowered.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52635959]It was never overpowered.[/QUOTE] Infact, I'd argue it's always been the worst Pyro Primary since it's initial release... [QUOTE=X marks it;52636032]I think the only situations I see a Phlog pyro ever destroy a team is: - Teammates just installed the game. - Pyro has an uber medic girlfriend that pockets them the entire game. - Pyro catches team unaware around a corner. - Pyro uses crits on cap. In the hands of a good strategic player it can be devastating, but stock in the same hands is far superior in every way. Especially since the removal of self-heal for the 'pointless uber' replacement, the self-heal at least had a use.[/QUOTE] The only time I really have issues with a Phlog pyro is when there's a medic ubering them after they taunt honestly. Even if they surprise you around corners they're not to hard to shutdown pyro's to shutdown, although a bit dependent on what class your playing I'll admit. Phlog has always been the easiest of the primaries to counter though, in every iteration of the weapon has gone through. I don't think I've ever considered it to be even above the stock or backburner flamethrowers in terms of usefulness honestly unless your playing against really really bad people that is. The better the players though, the less and less functional the phlog will be. Well, besides Mann vs Machine... Where I see it and the backburner as the actual best options for the game mode. Over all though, the only people I've seen Phlogs destroy on a regular basis though were really bad players. Generally ones that showed signs of tunnel vision or generally didn't pay enough attentions to their surroundings. Hell, in game a huge chunk that complained about phlogs while I was playing often stood next to the pyro as he taunted attacking him like an idiot, that weren't heavy mind you ( heavy can actually out DPS the phlog pyro even with his crits lol ). [QUOTE=Metaru;52636056]vainilla phlog was the best selling item because at the time of launch it was the only way to get it. they added crafting and drop chances way later. also vainilla phlog was really fun to use and it was a blast to chain and roam maps like steel with it. the main issue will always be that you can gain meter with flares, wich negate the inherent risk un the "risk and reward" part of the mechanic. even without the self heal it is a reallly nice weapon to mess around in pubs[/QUOTE] I believe the phlog's mmmrph reset when you touched the cabinets when it first launch didn't it? Making it even harder to utilize heh. They could maybe tune down how fast mmmrph is earned from secondaries... But I feel the risk would completely outweigh the reward if secondaries didn't help build mmmrph at all. At that point I'd never pick it over the backburner. Against a competent team though getting close enough to build mmmrph with just the flamethrower itself is relatively difficult. You'd more or less have to sneak up from behind while they're distracted more or less, from which at that point you may as well use the backburner as it already gets crits from behind, not to mention you can still airblast if needed.

[QUOTE=gigazelle;52633550]School has already started in just about every place I know.[/QUOTE] Not until September 4th in some schools here and maybe some other countries,so we've still got the weekend for a "summer" update.

Phlog is a great example of a terrible design It's a weapon that works amazingly well against terrible players, regardless of your skill, especially if you have a medic girlfriend [URL="https://youtu.be/-EBjPXqP120"]Example[/URL] However, if there's more than 1 competent soldier/demo on the enemy team aware of their surroundings, you can just give up, it's not happening, you may as well switch class at that point, especially if the enemy team is remotely competent, even if you have Uber, you'll get juggled again and again until your Uber ends, which then you'll get gang raped by that soldier/demo and his team, barely getting one kill in the process, which isn't a lot to expect from an uber

[QUOTE=Drag0600;52636080]Is there a good way to check TF2's CPU and GPU usage that is not MSI Afterburner? It doesn't work for me for some reason.[/QUOTE] GPU-z and the like.

I've been toying with Phlogistinator ideas for years now and this is my current favorite idea. Here are the problems I currently see with the Phlogi: >Criticals are too strong against low level players, nearly useless against high level ones as you'll never get close enough. >Lack of airblast strongly weakens Pyro VS projectile classes and dictates the Mannmelter if you want to retain your support capabilities >MMPH building with any Fire damage, dictates a Flaregun for Secondary, optimally the Scorch Shot or Detonator. Phlogistinator +Dealing damage with any weapon builds MMPH meter. +Press the Reload button when full MMPH. All of you damage becomes MiniCrits and you receive increased speed. -The Airblast destroys projectiles instead of redirecting them Details: Now that all Secondaries (and Melees) build MMPH and you still have an airblast able to put out allies, you aren't limited to the Flareguns MMPH's MiniCrits affect everything, direct Primary/Secondary/Melee damage and Afterburn MMPH's SpeedBonus is the same as the Concheror's (35%, 405HUs, 5HUs faster than Scout) Fighting Soldiers and Demomen will still be harder, even with MMPH, when you give up the massive burst potential of reflected projectiles. Fighting Scouts, one of the 3 worst Pyro matchups, becomes easier with MMPH, thanks to the speed boost. Fighting Heavies, another of the 3 worst Pyro matchups, becomes easier with MMPH, thanks to the damage increase. Fighting Engineers, the last of the 3 worst Pyro matchups, becomes a bit easier as well, thanks to the speed boost and the damage increase. Fine balancing comes from MMPH duration, MMPH build cost. New interesting options: >Pelting enemies with medium range MiniCrit shotguns. >2 Hitting Soldiers with MiniCrit Backscratcher. >MiniCrit Scorch Shot direct hits, bounce hits and afterburn. >Increased Detonator and Scorch Shot jumps. >Holding the Powerjack when MMPHed will make you faster than Scouts. >Running after MiniSentries at the speed of Scout and Homewrecking them before they get built. >Others I cannot think of now. One final idea, is making the MMPH activation instant. Obviously decrease the MMPH duration by the amount it burns during the taunt. This would allow Pyros to use it as a trump card on 1v1s that don't look too good, use it to hunt down fleeing enemies (Spies, Medics, Scouts) etc.

[QUOTE=Chuggoth;52636492]Phlog doesn't need a non-functional airblast. Just give it heavy's projectile destruction during "MMPH!"[/QUOTE] There's plenty of reasons why this might not be as good as you think. Balance wise, being able to only do that when MMPHing limits its applicability and leaves Pyro as open to projectiles as he currently is. Furthermore, still unable to extinguish allies you are either forced to use the Mannmelter or ignore one of the most team based aspects of the class. This ability was designed for PvE and it might not work well, or work too well in a PvP environment. Implementation wise I can see two possible issues. This ability was designed as an add on to the minigun and unless the TF2 code is greatly segmented in objects, it would be harder to implement for Pyro than a weakened airblast Last but not least, Heavy's Projectile Destruction works based on hitscan, implementing it on a flamethrower would need either projectiles to collide or a new hitscan capability for the Phlog. Now to be clear, I wouldn't be against it, I just think it's too much hassle when easier solutions can be implemented.

I still like the idea of a Short Circuit style projectile deletion that doesn't deal any damage. So you can't reflect them to get kills but you're not totally defenceless against a projectile class.

[QUOTE=Chuggoth;52636492]Phlog doesn't need a non-functional airblast. Just give it heavy's projectile destruction during "MMPH!"[/QUOTE] that would make it the most braindead weapon in the game,

[QUOTE=Chuggoth;52636492]Phlog doesn't need a non-functional airblast. Just give it heavy's projectile destruction during "MMPH!"[/QUOTE] Except if you don't carry the manmelter with you when using the phlog, you're officially an asshole pyro because you can't extinguish your teammates.

[QUOTE=Kegan;52636792]Except if you don't carry the manmelter with you when using the phlog, you're officially an asshole pyro because you can't extinguish your teammates.[/QUOTE] Too bad the Manmelter is hot garbage. It reloads extremely slowly and doesn't even reload while it's holstered despite claiming that it does. I'm pretty sure they have it set up to recharge reload instead of standard reload since you'll hear a ding to indicate that it's ready to fire instead of a reload animation.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;52636842]Too bad the Manmelter is hot garbage. It reloads extremely slowly and doesn't even reload while it's holstered despite claiming that it does. I'm pretty sure they have it set up to recharge reload instead of standard reload since you'll hear a ding to indicate that it's ready to fire instead of a reload animation.[/QUOTE] All the more reason to buff the manmelter and retool the phlog, both weapons are busted.

but phlog + detonator = sick flanks and frags

If you're flanking may as well go with backburner for near constant crits + still having the ability to airblast tbh

[QUOTE=RedDagger;52636928]If you're flanking may as well go with backburner for near constant crits + still having the ability to airblast tbh[/QUOTE] i can't ever get backburner to crit it's harder than landing headshots

I really hope when the Update eventually comes out we will have a long Blog Post explaining what we should expect in the future because the entire community is just that one image of that block guy with the question marks. Everything is overlapping with everything this year. Let's go with the best case scenario: The Update releases next week. Chances of that happening? As likely as this week, but for now we'll roll with this Scenario. Update releases, and with it a new campaign. Let's ignore the content it brings for now except the Campaign. Campaigns usually run 3 months, which means the Campaign will overlap with Halloween, and not by a few days, but by one entire month - and since Halloween will likely feature Merasmissions - if it's a shitty baby update with a single new case or a big one, they'll overlap either way causing a massive clusterfuck of Contracts. And then there is Smissmas, if we even get one. The only ETA we have is "lots of time before October" means its [B]not[/B] planned for the anniversary. All this leads to me thinking this won't be your usual 3 months campaign. I'm not thinking it'll be a 1-2 months campaign, but instead that it might become a permanent, overhauled addition to the game with maybe new skins every now and then to unlock. Anyone else?

[QUOTE=Fluury;52636954]the entire community is just that one image of that [b]block guy[/b] with the question marks.[/QUOTE] ?? [img]http://i.imgur.com/wKrLJmp.png[/img] ??

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;52636968]?? [img]http://i.imgur.com/wKrLJmp.png[/img] ??[/QUOTE]i was thinking of this picture [IMG]https://indiafellow.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/confusion.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;52636968]?? -snip- ??[/QUOTE] Exactly this one.

I get that we are kinda in a bad place when it comes to valve as a whole but considering how long this takes... I just hope TF team wont disappoint us again. It's been over a year already, i'm seriously worried what happens to this game if the update is a fuck up.

[QUOTE=comet1337;52636934]i can't ever get backburner to crit it's harder than landing headshots[/QUOTE] It's less about where you are and more about which way you're facing just like backstabs

Another change i'd like is better ways to directly support content creators. 100% the money spend on stamps and strange filters goes to mappers and that's great, but I feel the incentives to buy them are not good enough. The unusual stamp effect of the Wolrd Traveler's Hat requires you to wear it in your main hat slot, which replaces hats you most likely prefer and limits your loadout, so that reward isn't really attractive unless you have no other hats (and people who can spend money generously on stuff that isn't directly useful to them are probably the ones who also have good hats they'd rather wear). Strange filters on the other hand just make no sense to me. I bought a sunshine one to test how it worked, because I have never seen one in game, and it's even more weird than I thought. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/YdpLNS0.jpg[/IMG] [I]....why would I need to remove the strange part to remove the filter? that's so arbitrary[/I] And why would people spend $1 to make their strange weapon worst? It's not attractive at all and just confusing. [U]Here's some ideas to incentivise people to directly support creators :[/U] -A more expensive version of cosmetics in the mann co store with a new color/quality, that gives you a "generous" effect ingame and untradable. The issue with that is that hats are already way overpriced in the store. I'd buy a $5 hat in the store from time to time if I knew 100% of the revenue went to the creators, [I]but there's already hats at $10+ in the store...[/I]. The avantage with that idea is that you still get to choose the hats you want you wear, and show your support for the creators of your favorite hats ingame. You could make it so you can only buy it if you already own that hat, that way it doesn't compete with trading or the mann co store. -A better way to showcase your stamps collection. Instead of just being "Coldfront-5" in the desccription of the World traveler's hat if you bought that stamp 5 times, have a visual way to showcase in your inventory or ingame that you bought mutliple copies of that stamp. A neat looking stamp collecting page for instance, with tiers of stamps, 1 = bronze, 5 = silver, 10 = golden, 20 = platinum. -Replace strange filters with something that actually incentivises you to buy them instead of making a strange weapon worst. Why not make it simply "Strange part : Points earned on Coldfront"? Or even better, give the weapon a special shine on that map. In general I feel you need an ingame visual incentive like the stamps effect to show your support for a particular map or cosmetic. Edit, added the "generous effect" hat idea

I think that they should rework some of the basics in TF2 to make it seem more like a modern game. The controller support: Controller support in TF2 is honestly not good. Some people might dislike controllers, but the controller support is also pretty bad for the Steam Controller (which is useable in casual for anyone wanting to know) There are some issues like not being able to use the Call a Vote menu and some prompts not using controller buttons. An example being that it will say "H" when trying to pick up a weapon instead of saying "A" or "X". Xbox controllers and DS4 controllers currently do not have an official configuration leading to some issues like not having a jump or crouch button. DS4 controllers also do not use DS4 prompts, so you have some cognitive dissonance. Training mode: The training mode only has 4 classes. This is ok, but a full 9 classes would be useful. The tips in the character select menu should be expanded upon in the training mode, like the Pyro ambushing enemies around corners and how to use the airblast efficiently. When someone first boots up the game, this should be at the front of the menu with a big "Play" button. When they complete it, it'll go away. Training mode with AI is fine in my opinion, it's just that they should have some more maps and rework the AI just a bit to make it more human-like. Training mode also does not support any type of controller, since it only supports keyboard inputs. I expect that they'll do both, since a training mode is a must for beginners and controller support just helps make the game a bit more polished.