TF2 General Chat and Update Speculation Station - One of Several Edition - Games

@nebrassy; thank you! I'll be back in town after tomorrow for the trading stuff, that's really awesome of you. I remember FlareAxtinGreaser pyro. That was the only pyro I had fun playing with because all three weapons were a serious threat. Admittedly in my 5000+ hours I've not played much pyro, but it seemed like instead of nerfhammering the one viable way to reach the usefulness/danger of other classes, they could have made it less dumb or gimmicky. Now pyro just feels like the butt monkey of the team. Airblast is useful yeah, but it just feels like the class could be a lot better if the mechanics were better.

I exclusively play casual so my opinion probably isn't as valuable for competitive even though I've been playing 8 years, but I never used the degreaser because I knew it was too cheap, and it made me feel not as bad of a person for doing puff+sting combos with flamethrower to flare/axtinguisher. I miss the axtinguisher before it was "re-balanced," since it strangely felt as satisfying to get [i]killed by[/i] it as it did to get kills with it. Knowing that someone put in like 3 or 4 extra inputs to kill me isn't as bad as knowing they probably just bound their W key to "+forward; +attack" and managed to kill me. I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, since most people don't like the "+ this stat, but - that stat" as balancing, but I'd be totally fine if they reverted its stats to what it was in the Love & War Update. Maybe even keep a slower swing speed but have a slower holster speed instead of switch-to speed. Yeah, it's still a cheap "crit-combo" but if you actually manage to get the crit kill with two swings from behind, you pretty much earned it.

[QUOTE=Archimedes;52518106]So back in the day it used to be Degreaser/Flare Gun/Axstinguisher but since that combo was gutted what became the standard Pyro loadout. Is it just Flamethrower/Whatever/Powerjack?[/QUOTE] I see Degreaser/Shotgun/Powerjack. Reliable source of damage with the shotgun and Powerjack. My favourite set-up is: Degreaser/Scorch/Homewrecker. Doesn't deal a ton of damage, but the annoying factor of the Scorch (especially against experienced Snipers) is a blessing. The Homewrecker is a nice way to support your fellow Engineer.

stock pyro (except powerjack) is what i use, but then again the only time i play pyro is as a denying offclass...

[QUOTE=Archimedes;52518106]So back in the day it used to be Degreaser/Flare Gun/Axstinguisher but since that combo was gutted what became the standard Pyro loadout. Is it just Flamethrower/Whatever/Powerjack?[/QUOTE] Degreaser is still the best flamethrower because it still allows flare/reserve combos, and mitigates a huge weakness on pyro; weapon heckling. Degreaser is worse than before, but it still has an edge over the other flamethrowers. But yeah, Axtinguisher is garbage now.

Everyone is giving out prizes for their raffles and I'm still sitting here waiting to find out what game mode the Valve map is to do my raffle.

It will be a brand new game mode that will be instantly abandoned.

[QUOTE=DrCactus;52518586]Degreaser is still the best flamethrower because it still allows flare/reserve combos, and mitigates a huge weakness on pyro; weapon heckling.[/QUOTE] Aye, I main pyro but I'm not really one for combos - preferring to use almost exclusively the detonator because jumping around and annoying the enemy from far away just kinda works for me - and I still use the degreaser solely because of this. The amount of times I tried using the backburner or stock just to get caught with my pants down, like not being able to switch and reflect in time, made the degreaser an obvious choice even after the nerf. That stuff's useful, yo. Sure, when the airblast cost nerf hit, it was initially really noticeable when playing TF2C games but now it doesn't even register because I got used to it, and it didn't hinder my playstyle enough to make any conscious changes. In casual and comp settings the downsides really don't nearly outweigh the upside of having faster switch speed in my experience, combos or not.

Those fancy crit combos-shmombos are cool alright, but i stick to the shotgun - nothing beats it's reliability to me. Also might sound stupid, but that's kind of RP thing as i run hazmat cosmetic set and shotgun just fits better than flares. Stock flamethrower is way to go too, but i would use any alternative with lowered airblast cost if there was one. I remember the times when nothing could contain kewl axtinguisher mains, and i was glad when minicrit-from-front nerf came, but nerf afterwards was uncalled for, even though it technically returned crits.

[QUOTE=st00pid;52518766] I remember the times when nothing could contain kewl axtinguisher mains, and i was glad when minicrit-from-front nerf came, but nerf afterwards was uncalled for, even though it technically returned crits.[/QUOTE] If I remember correctly they returned the crits after the initial nerf due to pyro mains crying it was a dead melee, since they couldn't lock you in a corner for free unfair 195 crit. (Even though it now supported the flanking roll of still crits on behind). Funnily enough the return of crits was its real death to the weapon, slower switch speed killed it. Hopefully with the pyro update they revert it back to the previous nerf as minicrits on front and crits on back were fine.

I'm going away on the 5th for a week. Odds of it happening by the time i'm back?

I had a dream about a Heavy workshop item, where the model was tiny compact-size Sandvich case meant for a second Sandvich. Except, there was a promotion video (Heavy: "Why, I can't carry a second Sandvich in my lunch box!") and the unlock... The unlock was beautiful to Heavy, so he embraced the second sandvich compartment in order for Valve to give him it. Until Valve gave it a golden trophy in "honor for a great idea, but we won't accept it." The dream was crushing.

Speaking on pyro secondaries, I like using the manmelter for its infinite ammo supply and being able to quickly put teammates out. I just wish the crit shots didn't emit MASSIVE fire particles that block my view

I normally roll stock + detonator + homewrecker to be the flankmaster I recommend Vavlie's videos on pyro detonator spots, they are really useful.

Weird, I [I]too [/I]had a game update dream last night. Had a dream that a tf2 major update went live (was like 3 years from now, not the pyro jungle) and I was waking up to view it several hours after it launched. I checked all the maps added and it was all things I'd never heard of and I felt a bit disappointed. Things like 'chpl_mirage' among other things. Felt a bit disconnected from the game reading that.

[vid]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GenerousMistyJuliabutterfly-mobile.mp4[/vid] Disciplinary Action is fair and balanced

[QUOTE=Torterra;52519016][vid]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GenerousMistyJuliabutterfly-mobile.mp4[/vid] Disciplinary Action is fair and balanced[/QUOTE] Random crits are fair and balanced

[QUOTE=Torterra;52519016][vid]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GenerousMistyJuliabutterfly-mobile.mp4[/vid] Disciplinary Action is fair and balanced[/QUOTE] God please don't ever "fix" this weapon valve, the whip is fun mode.

[url]http://blog.dota2.com/2017/07/welcoming-new-players/[/url] If only tf2 had this.

Players only being able to play Soldier, Demoman and Medic for the first ten or so levels would be pretty great.

Heroes aren't exactly comparable to classes although I wouldn't mind a restriction on spy/sniper

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;52519175]Players only being able to play Soldier, Demoman and Medic for the first ten or so levels would be pretty great.[/QUOTE] Honestly gradually unlocking classes with level/play time could be a good idea but at the same time if sniper and spy are the last to be unlocked it would probably cause new players to idolise them more then they do now.

I was less looking at the class locks (even though that WOULD be pretty sweat in some ranges) but more about the matching newbs with newbs.

[QUOTE=X marks it;52518816]If I remember correctly they returned the crits after the initial nerf due to pyro mains crying it was a dead melee, since they couldn't lock you in a corner for free unfair 195 crit. (Even though it now supported the flanking roll of still crits on behind). Funnily enough the return of crits was its real death to the weapon, slower switch speed killed it. Hopefully with the pyro update they revert it back to the previous nerf as minicrits on front and crits on back were fine.[/QUOTE] I still never saw the Axtinguisher itself as a problem. I also don't ever recall people complaining about it till the degreaser was released. But what really killed it was when powerjack became the only item needed for the movement speed perks, which far outweighed the usefulness of the axtinguisher as a whole. While it still got use occasionally, it finally became a trash item for roughly the bulk of the tf2 community when they decided to nerf it further. Slow switch speed and crits from the back made it too unreliable to use, at least when in comparison to how godly useful powerjack's mobility offered. The nerf to the powerjacks damage didn't even phase it either. Even now I bet anything that a complete revert to back when the axtinguisher did full crits from where ever, the powerjack would still be the more dominant melee item for pyro by quite a long shot. As it stands now, you may as well run the backburner on pyro instead. At least your not restricted to melee range for crits from behind. [QUOTE=Fluury;52519196]I was less looking at the class locks (even though that WOULD be pretty sweat in some ranges) but more about the matching newbs with newbs.[/QUOTE] While it may deter from the casual experience. I think it'd be healthier if they at least hade people of simular play times stick together and not get clumped up with people with tons of hours that know how to play at least reasonably well in a pub environment. While playing better players does help people get better at the game, when your getting out right destroyed by people it's significantly harder to understand what you did wrong and what you need to do to get better at the game.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;52519175]Players only being able to play Soldier, Demoman and Medic for the first ten or so levels would be pretty great.[/QUOTE] New players only have to understand that not all the classes are meant to be played for the full match but instead choosing the good class for the exact moment is a fundamental tactic for a match. Personally, I think some tutorials would be a good choice to teach new players: videos that explains the basic approaches and your role and then levels that teach you the main mechanics in the game. (Like Quake Live)

[QUOTE=CoolJosh3k;52518169]There are more types of pyro now. Degreaser, Reserve Shooter... Scorch, Homewrecker... Phlog, Scorch... Backburner, Detonator... Stock, Shotty... Personally I use Stock for the afterburn, then follow up with 2 or 3 shotgun blasts. Fire axe for when I can puff them into a corner for that sweet 65 damage swing with really high crit chance.[/QUOTE] It seems most of the changes that happened over the past two years made more loadouts (for all classes) viable by removing or dampening the "best" option which is nice.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52519157][url]http://blog.dota2.com/2017/07/welcoming-new-players/[/url] If only tf2 had this.[/QUOTE] it already does. although it does it the opposite way: it pairs shit people with other shit people.

The only weapons for pyro I never touch unless I purposely want to piss people off is the backburner and reserve shooter. I can't use them without feeling like a massive prick the entire match. Mainly doesn't help with the fucky flame particles giving me crits when I'm not attacking from behind and the reserve shooter just being an ezmode shotgun for Pyro. I'm sure there is people that'd defend these weapons are fine, but they just don't feel good to use. But at the very least, I look forward to whatever happens with these weapons when the pyro update comes out. As well as the worrying Scorch Shot 3.0, for some reason I sense another un-needed buff.

If you really want to piss people off, go on nucleus using the Detonator and Backburner. There is an entire upper level of the map that even soldiers won't go to, mostly because it's fairly useless, but it allows you to traverse the entire map unseen. You can be as stealthy as a ninja, jumping down and swiftly destroying people.

I never get why they nerfed the DA to be one second shorter with the speed buff, it doesn't seem like that much of a big deal