TF2 General Chat and Update Speculation Station - One of Several Edition - Games

I was considering to get an unusual thirst blood to go with my Joseph Joestar loadout, but I was wondering what effect would go well for the thirst blood. What do you guys think?

[QUOTE=Chuggoth;52540698]Short circuit on Pyro.Class that can REDIRECT incoming projectiles by default.:goodjob:[/QUOTE] Well, what other [b]side-grades[/b] can you really do for a Pyro flamethrower? The point of weapon unlocks used to be give the class a different play-style, and aside from the backburner being a worse flamethrower, each does change things up. There could be situations in which destroying projectiles as Pyro could be better than redirecting them, such as close combat with soldiers or demos and sticky traps. [QUOTE=Kegan;52540803]Clip size then? I don't know what to call the flamethrower's stock of ammo. What I'm getting at is rather than 200 units of fuel, you'd only have 100 units worth of constant flaming[/QUOTE] Oh, did you mean that it would also have rechargeable ammo like other energy weapons rather than "doesn't require ammo"?

[QUOTE=BrandoJack;52540833]Well, what other [b]side-grades[/b] can you really do for a Pyro flamethrower?[/QUOTE] One option could be to give the Phlog the same fire consuming ability as the Man Melter and then work from there. Maybe it gets crits after enough fire has been extinguished, maybe it's something else. Perhaps give it slightly higher ammo to offset the contextual charge ability slightly. I understand the two WETA weapons were intended to be used in tandem and play off each other but this doesn't like a terribly disruptive option.

I doubt it means anything, but Kritzkast have recently stuffed the workshop full of orange/white Kritzkast themed weapon skins with medic plus patterns as a celebration of sorts. Usually anyone puttin those in the workshop wouldn't mean anything, but since it's Kritzkast who has done things with Valve in the past, it's interesting to say the least.

[QUOTE=JasperDx17;52540856]I doubt it means anything, but Kritzkast have recently stuffed the workshop full of orange/white Kritzkast themed weapon skins with medic plus patterns as a celebration of sorts. Usually anyone puttin those in the workshop wouldn't mean anything, but since it's Kritzkast who has done things with Valve in the past, it's interesting to say the least.[/QUOTE] Usually any collusion done with workshop items is not public, and there clearly was a decent amount of effort + care made into the presentation of all those skins. I am almost 100% certain they aren't going to be added, but even so, the way the workshop submissions are structured give a very distinctive impression that their purpose is to bolster their following.

I don't think they'll accept custom weapon skins for the Workshop before they make a proper custom-importer for them yet.

[QUOTE=bobpineapple;52540798]same weapons, better skins... specifically ones that arent dirt, brick, or plad textures. one could only hope.[/QUOTE] They confirmed they were doing non-stock weapon skins this time around

[QUOTE=Kegan;52540803]Clip size then? I don't know what to call the flamethrower's stock of ammo. What I'm getting at is rather than 200 units of fuel, you'd only have 100 units worth of constant flaming[/QUOTE] well the flamethrower doesn't actually reload, so you probably should've specified that the ammo count regenerates at some rate that prevents constant spamming, yet only goes up to 100 "ammo" in reserve

[QUOTE=Kegan;52540659]Okay so I've been thinking about the phlog and how it could be made to be less bullshit: +Doesn't require ammo +Shooting the phlog builds a heat meter broken into 4 pieces, every full piece gives you an air blast, at full meter you have to air blast to vent the weapon - -50% less ammo capacity This would give the phlog the air blast back, a pyro without an air blast is pretty gimped. This would also discourage w+m1 shenanigans because you have a lower ammo cap. It'd also mean you can't just air blast constantly either. And if needed another one of these stats could further put the phlog as sidegrade: -reflected projectiles are not crit boosted Or -reflected projectiles vanish as if zapped by the short circuit Also I like the infinite ammo thing, I often run out of ammo when I play TF2 :saddowns:[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=A Rogue Cop;52540900]well the flamethrower doesn't actually reload, so you probably should've specified that the ammo count regenerates at some rate that prevents constant spamming, yet only goes up to 100 "ammo" in reserve[/QUOTE] i thought the point he was trying to make was that instead of consuming ammo, his phlog fills up a "heat" gauge (which you also use as airblast ammo), but it takes only half the time to fill the gauge than it does to use up all the ammo on a flamethrower, giving you half as much effective firing time until you have to vent it by airblasting not too sure what to think of that weapon concept, it sounds really high maintenance compared to the rather minor benefit of the "infinite" ammo unless the mmmph meter is still there

[QUOTE=VX-79;52540762]You do know the phlog doesn't even have an airblast to begin with, right? The ability to destroy multiple projectiles at once and extinguish teammates if you also use the manmelter is better than literally nothing.[/QUOTE] I always worry that peoples suggestion still won't make the phlog any more useful except against really bad players as it currently stands, but in return the pyro will lose one of his better unlocks for Mann vs Machine in the process. Which means it'll effectively be in worse shape afterwards. I never like the "better then nothing" argument either. Everytime someone mentions that phrase I think of Might #9 where the dev used it, only for that game to be a colossal failure when it finally came out. Better then nothing my foot.

[QUOTE=BrandoJack;52540833] Oh, did you mean that it would also have rechargeable ammo like other energy weapons rather than "doesn't require ammo"?[/QUOTE] Yeah, I mean that's what the stats are listed for the other grodbort weapons: [IMG]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/687145780029325222/EE4A7FD4AE4BE43E617EBAFD44EC4A891770F33A/[/IMG] So yeah, as you shoot it, the meter would fill up and then you have to airblast to vent it.

We probably gona have a new mechanic on pyro airblasts similar to loose cannon or huntsman build up shots.

[QUOTE=Ultravod;52540513]That exploit is executed with the "reset conditions" function a number of TF2 cheats offer (at least 3 that I know of.) It allows for all sorts of malfeasance (insta-decloak, insta-capping points, removal of debuffs, etc etc) and is apparently one of the harder cheat actions to patch.[/QUOTE] I am usually among those who get to walk off the spawn before others when they are stuck. I dont know how, but i have a hunch. I was dead when round changed (because you know i actually fight to cap). So next round i wont spawn regularly like the others with the stuck flag set on me. Another option is that i changed a class during 1st second of the round. I don't know, need to test this out. This has nothing to do with cheating itself.

[QUOTE=aderrus;52541150]We probably gona have a new mechanic on pyro airblasts similar to loose cannon or huntsman build up shots.[/QUOTE] How about instead of airblasts, it was fireballs? Charge up a fireball, consumes ammo based on how much you charge and consumes ammo to maintain the fireball, fires a knockback inferno, loads of upfront damage and large knockback based on charge, like a giant scorch shot, except of course it does more damage and is closer range. Other downsides could be that it doesn't reflect projectiles, it burns em up instead, or that the primary attack is combined into the charging ability so you lose regular flaming.

I secretly hope the cow Mangler isn't touched in the rebalancing or is just given a small buff based on it's charged shots instead of totally overhauled like other weapons, because I honestly love the charged shots and I would hate for them to be full on removed Maybe make it so 3 out of 4 of your shots are instantly reloaded if you hit an enemy or building with the charged shots, in order to allow you to keep on the pressure when you hit a high healthed enemy or building with a charged shot?

[QUOTE=aderrus;52541150]We probably gona have a new mechanic on pyro airblasts similar to loose cannon or huntsman build up shots.[/QUOTE] I mean, now after I think about that again, it would pair up with the whole idea of rescaling (and hopefully reworking) the reflection area for airblasts. So maybe make it consume like 10 ammo at low rate while the airblast reflection area is decreased by 30% in size (not just from the front), will act like a stock at middle rate and maybe +30% increase for a full charged airblast with a cost of 30 ammo (will charge up probably like a huntsman or slightly faster) And overloading will lead to (yeah that's one of the most fun parts) to an AIRBLAST JUMP! :0 (so pretty much the same if an enemy pyro airblasts you from the opposite direction of where you're aiming) tho it will still reflect stuff, so be aware not to shoot yourself with a crocket (and overloaded airblast will be increased in size by 50%, so there will be a lot of them. Escaping from a soldier with this wouldn't be as easy as you might think). For a one more positive side maybe give it faster weapon switch (we are considering that reserve shooter is already gone and that stat would just encourage you to use it with detonator) and about cons I think it would be better to reduce the ammo capacity to avoid "constantly spamming M2 at low rate" pyros. Regarding the phlog, though, I had a pretty fun idea : Wave airblast. It would take a half of a second to load and will wave to the end of the reflection area in half of a second aswell. It will reflect anything that touches the wave's end. And now, as someone already mentioned, give it vacc-kind of charge with 4 small charges (each charge requires 75 fire damage). However the projectiles will not receive any kind of a mini-crit boost after being reflected. Airblast animation should look like a red plasma stroke to fit in with the whole grordbord artstyle. And airblasting with a full 4 charges will lead to a mini-crit boosted wave (it will also take the same time to load as the cowmangler's M2 charge, will slow you down as well.) BUT the wave will travel for a whole second and everything that touches that wave will be set in mini-crit boosted flames (both enemies, enemy projectiles and ally projectiles).

[QUOTE=ics;52541341]I am usually among those who get to walk off the spawn before others when they are stuck. I dont know how, but i have a hunch. I was dead when round changed (because you know i actually fight to cap). So next round i wont spawn regularly like the others with the stuck flag set on me. Another option is that i changed a class during 1st second of the round. I don't know, need to test this out. This has nothing to do with cheating itself.[/QUOTE] You can run off earlier if you change class or load an item preset after the 10s counter

What pyro truly needs is a flamethrower that's basically a modded Tuba and whenever you airblast it does a really loud "BWOOP" sound

[QUOTE=Fluury;52541649]What pyro truly needs is a flamethrower that's basically a modded Tuba and whenever you airblast it does a really loud "BWOOP" sound[/QUOTE] Isnt the rainblower a tuba?

[QUOTE=turshitposter;52541650]Isnt the rainblower a tuba?[/QUOTE] Yea, but it has to sound something like this: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwDuKTvNRBc[/url]

[QUOTE=m4x;52539938]what would be the best way to balance a weapon like the Phlogistinator?[/QUOTE] The Phlog is balanced in my opinion. The only time you should die to a Phlog Pyro is when he catches you by surprise, the same way a Demoman has a sticky trap.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52541649]whenever you airblast it does a really loud "BWOOP" sound[/QUOTE] Something like this? [url]http://gamebanana.com/sounds/37707[/url] Use with the Rainblower for a totally immersive experience. It also plays different additional notes if you airblast a player instead of the air.

[QUOTE=Super Glue;52541749]The Phlog is balanced in my opinion. The only time you should die to a Phlog Pyro is when he catches you by surprise, the same way a Demoman has a sticky trap.[/QUOTE] It's 100% useless in competitive, so imo it needs a complete overhaul. After Pyro gets his complete overhaul, anyway.

[QUOTE=Super Glue;52541749]The Phlog is balanced in my opinion. The only time you should die to a Phlog Pyro is when he catches you by surprise, the same way a Demoman has a sticky trap.[/QUOTE] It's OP in pubs UP in competitive. Not balanced in the slightest.

[QUOTE=Drury;52541839]It's OP in pubs UP in competitive. Not balanced in the slightest.[/QUOTE] Pubs are a bit unimportant in terms of game balancement when anything can be seen as OP to them. Opinions are so mixed there it's not funny. Simply put, it's not possible to balance around the common pub player.

[QUOTE=Drury;52541839]It's OP in pubs UP in competitive. Not balanced in the slightest.[/QUOTE] Why is the phlog OP ? It cant even reflect projectiles, its not that hard to avoid the wm1 pyro. Yes the crits are annoying but compared to the other flamethrower its rather weak

[QUOTE=Doodle966;52541844]Why is the phlog OP ? It cant even reflect projectiles, [B]its not that hard to avoid the wm1 pyro.[/B] Yes the crits are annoying but compared to the other flamethrower its rather weak[/QUOTE] It is for pub players.

[QUOTE=Doodle966;52541844]Why is the phlog OP ? It cant even reflect projectiles, its not that hard to avoid the wm1 pyro. Yes the crits are annoying but compared to the other flamethrower its rather weak[/QUOTE] It isn't. It's been the worst flamethrower for PvP gameplay since it's initial release. It's never even been better then the Backburner in terms of functionality. The only place were it was good is Mann vs Machine. [QUOTE=GLH;52541848]It is for pub players.[/QUOTE] Question is, what isn't OP to pub players?

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;52541850] Question is, what isn't OP to pub players?[/QUOTE] The Righteous Bison, it's so bad not even pub players can complain.

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;52541850]It isn't. It's been the worst flamethrower for PvP gameplay since it's initial release. It's never even been better then the Backburner in terms of functionality. The only place were it was good is Mann vs Machine. Question is, what isn't OP to pub players?[/QUOTE] the sun on a stick?