TF2 General Chat and Update Speculation Station - One of Several Edition - Games

[QUOTE=RedDagger;52563586]Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but the detonator can already flare jump mid-air using the air burst.[/QUOTE] Oh shit guess what I'm practicing once I get off vacation

[QUOTE=rolfum;52563508]cause I still am and I'm sick of it popping up in my recommended even though I haven't touched game theory since 2014[/QUOTE] There are plugins and scripts like Youtube+ that let you blacklist the whole channel from ever appearing anywhere.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52563597]Oh shit guess what I'm practicing once I get off vacation[/QUOTE] Vavlie has a nice video on det jumping, it's not a tutorial but close enough - basically Gun Mettle changed how det jumping worked and it's covering those changes, but works well enough ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [video=youtube;hgSdBW9njK0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgSdBW9njK0[/video] If you don't know Vavlie's channel, they've got a lot of nice Pyro Mobility Repertoire videos that also include normal jumps that most classes can do, not just pyro.

[QUOTE=rolfum;52563508]is it wrong to still be angry at game theory over that garbage tf2 vs overwatch episode they did where they argued that tf2 was worse cause most of the cast was white males cause I still am and I'm sick of it popping up in my recommended even though I haven't touched game theory since 2014[/QUOTE] i'm way angrier about the scout v tracer death battle, tbh strips tracer of all of her in-game and in-lore limitations on her blink ability, plays up her endurance to the level of being able to survive a homerun (that taunt kill that can one-shot an overhealed heavy?) while playing down scout's endurance, faster movement speed, higher burst damage... it's a complete mess and obvious pandering to the overwatch crowd also they totally neglect to mention that scout and the rest of the mercs are literally wizards

Let me interrupt you getting your jimmies rustled by YouTubers speaking of TF2 and/or Overwatch to share the realization I've had after getting back in TF2 these last couple of months. The Airblast buff, which heals you whenever you extinguish someone, aids surviveability so much more than I ever expected. I've been getting back to the Pyro loop, fixing my airblasts, remembering how awesome the Detonator is and this buff has changed my playstyle. Whenever I'm hurt instead of looking for medpacks (or on my way to one), I look for burning allies. After teamfights, if allies are burning I can instead of retreating to a safe spot, put them out and keep on pushing/holding as if I never got damaged. It helps the pacing of the class so much. Now if only Pyro had a good initiation tool and the flames' hit detection worked.

[QUOTE=Contra132;52563662]i'm way angrier about the scout v tracer death battle, tbh strips tracer of all of her in-game and in-lore limitations on her blink ability, plays up her endurance to the level of being able to survive a homerun (that taunt kill that can one-shot an overhealed heavy?) while playing down scout's endurance, faster movement speed, higher burst damage... it's a complete mess and obvious pandering to the overwatch crowd also they totally neglect to mention that scout and the rest of the mercs are literally wizards[/QUOTE] As someone who's played both games quite a bit, I can say with 100% certainty the people who made that video have neither played Overwatch or TF2. But then Scout was cocking the scatter gun for some reason. Things I remember: -Scout cannot use two primaries at the same time -Bonk is not super sayain mode, scout cannot attack during it -Tracer should literally never be able to build her ultimate in this fight. Scout just doesnt have the HP pool to build it. -Overwatch heroes do not gain ultimate from shooting invulnerable targets, it scales based on damage done -Tracer has good horizontal mobility and thats it, no Naruto tier teleport combos for you. -Tracer cant recall after dying. Tracer would win this fight if it was Stock with range advantage, Scout would win if unlocks were allowed, I'd probably go Shortstop Crita Cola and then Tracer is actually at the disadvantage for range. The tracer wasn't playing like a tracer and the Scout wasn't playing like a Scout. I'm not sure who should actually like that video.

[QUOTE=Petroklos;52563749]Let me interrupt you getting your jimmies rustled by YouTubers speaking of TF2 and/or Overwatch to share the realization I've had after getting back in TF2 these last couple of months. The Airblast buff, which heals you whenever you extinguish someone, aids surviveability so much more than I ever expected. I've been getting back to the Pyro loop, fixing my airblasts, remembering how awesome the Detonator is and this buff has changed my playstyle. Whenever I'm hurt instead of looking for medpacks (or on my way to one), I look for burning allies. After teamfights, if allies are burning I can instead of retreating to a safe spot, put them out and keep on pushing/holding as if I never got damaged. It helps the pacing of the class so much. Now if only Pyro had a good initiation tool and the flames' hit detection worked.[/QUOTE] Airblast healing seems like just another band-aid to me. It makes pyro stronger, and it's good that it encourages you to help teammates, but it's not something the user really has much control over.

[IMG]http://puu.sh/x7Y01/220e9c2170.png[/IMG] Is this true? I thought rockets fired auto-corrected to angle towards whatever geometry your crosshair is trained on I remember firing at closed doors and having them open only for the rocket to veer off to the left because the vector drawn from my weapon to the door was a steeper angle towards the left than it wouldve been were the door open

The pyro is too much of a gimmick: Reflects rely on the presence of projectile classes. Extinguishing health relies on the presence of another pyro. Unlocks like the back scratcher/homewrecker are useless if certain classes are/aren't played. The flamer only works in the max DPS range of all the other combat classes. Flares are avoidable at the distance snipers/projectile classes fight. It's DPS is too low to sustain at close range against them either. The shotgun's spread makes it have the DPS of a water gun at those ranges too, and the Scout's weapon and movement are superior at closer ranges. The axe/degreaser got nerfed, the phlog makes you an easy target It's almost like they want pyro to fail at everything he does. It's like valve is listening to the braindead potato legions of bad players, shitting nerf cries out the steam discussions, who are also demanding penalties for demo and heavy.

[QUOTE=ikes;52563790] Is this true? I thought rockets fired auto-corrected to angle towards whatever geometry your crosshair is trained on I remember firing at closed doors and having them open only for the rocket to veer off to the left because the vector drawn from my weapon to the door was a steeper angle towards the left than it wouldve been were the door open[/QUOTE] Rockets autocorrect if range is long enough (i don't remember exact value), if you are close to object you aim at - it will just come out with offset. Same for flares. On the side note, i really wish valve implemented centered viewmodel as an option, and not original exclusive. This would make soldiers and demos life so much better. edit: [video=youtube;ZwWoA6B9VfQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwWoA6B9VfQ[/video]

Playing TF2 for so long is almost like being in a shitty relationship. I'm not gonna ditch them because I've been disappointed so much, I actually wanna see them do well. You keep dealing with their shit, in hope that something will change. I love the game too much to just leave. To be honest, I didn't even hate EOTL and MYM. TF2 will still have it's fun core mechanics that will always be there. I never hyped myself up either, so that helped. This update drought is kind of killing me though

[QUOTE=Contra132;52563662]i'm way angrier about the scout v tracer death battle, tbh strips tracer of all of her in-game and in-lore limitations on her blink ability, plays up her endurance to the level of being able to survive a homerun (that taunt kill that can one-shot an overhealed heavy?) while playing down scout's endurance, faster movement speed, higher burst damage... it's a complete mess and obvious pandering to the overwatch crowd also they totally neglect to mention that scout and the rest of the mercs are literally wizards[/QUOTE] You should see what those retards did for the Master Chief Vs. Doomguy fight. 6 years later and I'm still mad.

[QUOTE=st00pid;52563815]Rockets autocorrect if range is long enough (i don't remember exact value), if you are close to object you aim at - it will just come out with offset. Same for flares. On the side note, i really wish valve implemented centered viewmodel as an option, and not original exclusive. This would make soldiers and demos life so much better. edit: [video=youtube;ZwWoA6B9VfQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwWoA6B9VfQ[/video][/QUOTE] i want centered viewmodels because it's aesthetically god and i love how much viewspace i get

I'd kill for a center viewed shotgun themed after either Doom or Quake. But just having a center view option for all weapons would be amazing, but good luck animating all of that.

[QUOTE=Kegan;52563895]I'd kill for a center viewed shotgun themed after either Doom or Quake. But just having a center view option for all weapons would be amazing, but good luck animating all of that.[/QUOTE] Just dont do it like Brutal doom did. Shotgun looks like it has [URL="https://youtu.be/oSzYliSASKc?t=33s"]balls that shake.[/URL]

[QUOTE=ics;52563916]Just dont do it like Brutal doom did. Shogun looks like it has [URL="https://youtu.be/oSzYliSASKc?t=33s"]balls that shake.[/URL][/QUOTE] Brutal Doom is a bit of a joke. But really if they were to do a center viewed shotgun, I think it should be modeled after Quake 1's shotgun. As much as I love Doom and its boomstick, Quake's shotgun has a slightly more distinct visual look to it.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52563810]The flamer only works in the max DPS range of all the other combat classes.[/QUOTE] This is the biggest problem, in my opinion. The primary weapons of ALL the other main combat classes are fucking amazing at what they do. Scattergun. Rocket Launcher. Grenade Launcher (ehh). Even the Minigun. The Flame Thrower doesn't stand a chance against any of them DPS-wise, so a Pyro always loses in perfect-skill fights against them. PYRO, not Scout, should be the most powerful close-combat class, but the Flame Thrower needs a complete overhaul mechanically for this is come to pass: 1. The Flame Thrower's visible fire particles should be attached to the damaging fire hitboxes. This needs to happen before ANYTHING ELSE, and if this doesn't happen, Pyro's primary is still useless and annoying to fight against. The importance of this change cannot be overstated. Everyone gets annoyed when they're hit by fire from what looks like twice the distance the fire LOOKS like it's going. But the truth is, if you look at how the hitboxes actually act with "tf_debug_flamethrower 1", you'll see that it's EXACTLY what it does (with the right kind of movement), and shame on the original developers for granting that much woe to players by not letting them see and dodge the slightly-more midrange fire. 2. Any discrepancies of range between players of different connection strengths needs to stop. I don't know how this even became a problem, but it needs to be fixed like 9 years ago. The way fire acts on a listen server is really cool and interesting, and is based on movement of the player. The range of that fire should not be influenced by connection strength. 3. Change fire hitboxes into moving points. This creates a need to aim, and offsets the newfound damage output. see 4. 4. Increase DPS directly. Currently, fire's maximum (firing directly into the enemy) DPS is ~153. The Scattergun's DPS is technically higher, with 105 burst damage / 0.625 per second attack interval, giving us 168 as Scout's technical DPS. So I think Pyro needs more power in his Flame Thrower, to fend off Scouts. I think increasing the DPS from 150 to 250 would be a good start. Remember, in point 3 I suggested that the fire hitboxes should be turned into points, requiring the Pyro to aim. IF that were to happen, Pyro's newfound ability to take down full-health Scouts in half a second would require a massive amount of skill; the current fire hitboxes are huge. 5. Make afterburn scarier. Pyro's ability to create panic was greater at the game's release because there were much fewer ways to extinguish it. At the moment, Pyro's afterburn is an inconvenience rather than a threat, at a measly 6 dps for 10 seconds. This should be changed, in my opinion, but it should also require skill. The way to require skill for afterburn is simple: The amount of direct fire damage received in the last second should determine the severity of the afterburn received. Given point 3, getting a full-length afterburn would be much more difficult now. However, afterburn itself would also be changed in a way that creates greater panic and much faster damage should you pull off a full second of direct fire damage. My proposal is divided into two parts. 1. Afterburn no longer damages in ticks, but rather in single points of health at a time (as if you're being the opposite of healed, if that makes sense). 2. Scale afterburn on amount of direct fire damage received (though I'll use time as an example). So: if you somehow managed to get the full second of fire damage, the enemy would receive an afterburn amount of 120 damage over 5 seconds (24 dps. still weak, but it would make a difference in 6s.). If you damaged them for half a second, they'd receive 60 damage over 5 seconds (the baseline that I used to want all afterburn to become). And for a quarter of a second, a measly 30 damage over 5 seconds (equivalent in dps to current afterburn.) Note: I think the flare, scorch, etc should have 60 damage for 10 seconds like it is now, or to be changed as appropriate. EDIT: continuing with afterburn. this is a bit difficult to explain, but it solves the question, "what happens if pyro misses a couple of flame particles? does afterburn begin immediately and stack with direct fire damage, causing weird math with new afterburn, etc?" so after like 5 minutes of thinking about this, i've devised an idea. basically, any time the enemy leaves the flame particles, the afterburn begins to drain the enemy's health instead (your direct fire does not stack with afterburn.) once you begin doing more fire damage, the remaining damage the afterburn WOULD'VE done is now apart of the damage you've done so far against the enemy. So say you managed to damage the enemy for half a second with direct fire damage. they're about to start losing 60 health over 5 seconds in afterburn. but 2 seconds in, you start damaging them again with fire. this means that the 36 damage left over from the afterburn is added to the damage calculation for the new afterburn after you've finished your second round of direct fire damage. tl;dr pyro needs a whole lot of shit done to him. this is only his primary weapon.

[QUOTE=Kegan;52563895]I'd kill for a center viewed shotgun themed after either Doom or Quake. But just having a center view option for all weapons would be amazing, but good luck animating all of that.[/QUOTE] I think current animations would work perfectly for centered view. One offset option works more or less for every weapon. What we need is unique rotation and offset options for each animation, and there we go - no need to reanimate anything, and old timers like myself are perfectly content. [video]https://youtu.be/ZIdjC4T6Uow[/video]

[QUOTE=Kegan;52563895]I'd kill for a center viewed shotgun themed after either Doom or Quake. But just having a center view option for all weapons would be amazing, but good luck animating all of that.[/QUOTE] Ever since the release of the Original Rocket Launcher when Quake 4 came to Steam I've wanted a center view sticky and grenade launcher for demoman as well, both using the quake 1 Grenade Launcher. Which was used for both the Pipe Bomb Launcher and Grenade Launcher in QWTF. I believe someone did actually make a model of the Quake Grenade Launcher on the workshop though, but it never got past ( probably due to no license agreement ). The gamebanana skin won't work as it doesn't have center fire like the original has either. =/ [quote][video=youtube;c1UxWzxvsLo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1UxWzxvsLo[/video][/quote] I've also wished for the Super Shotgun for Scout, probably as a Force-a-Nature reskin since if you compare how the weapons function they're probably the closest in terms of how they preformed when compared to the other scout weapons. Someone also made a BFG Model that acts as a reskin of the Cowmangler... I'd totally use that more often if it got in lol. [quote][video=youtube;ijgIIOfMdk4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijgIIOfMdk4[/video][/quote]

[QUOTE=st00pid;52563966]I think current animations would work perfectly for centered view. One offset option works more or less for every weapon. What we need is unique rotation and offset options for each animation, and there we go - no need to reanimate anything, and old timers like myself are perfectly content. [video]https://youtu.be/ZIdjC4T6Uow[/video][/QUOTE] Holy shit it's nearly perfect. Now I'm sad because this will never become a thing.

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;52563982]Ever since the release of the Original Rocket Launcher when Quake 4 came to Steam I've wanted a center view sticky and grenade launcher for demoman as well, both using the quake 1 Grenade Launcher. Which was used for both the Pipe Bomb Launcher and Grenade Launcher in QWTF. I believe someone did actually make a model of the Quake Grenade Launcher on the workshop though, but it never got past ( probably due to no license agreement ). The gamebanana skin won't work as it doesn't have center fire like the original has either. =/ I've also wished for the Super Shotgun for Scout, probably as a Force-a-Nature reskin since if you compare how the weapons function they're probably the closest in terms of how they preformed when compared to the other scout weapons.[/QUOTE] But SSG in quake is pretty much scattergun, albeit with infinite clip. It's rapid-firing enough, and fires two shells at once, instead of two fast consecutive shots. Also, i drool when i imagine if valve gave me centered quake grenade launcher with authentic "ding" bounce sound. But then i snap back into reality and see the only three things that are coming: more treats for soldier, more crit gimmicks for pyro, and more cosmetics for ＥＶＥＲＹＯＮＥ

[QUOTE=st00pid;52563995]But SSG in quake is pretty much scattergun, albeit with infinite clip. It's rapid-firing enough, and fires two shells at once, instead of two fast consecutive shots. Also, i drool when i imagine if valve gave me centered quake grenade launcher with authentic "ding" bounce sound. But then i snap back into reality and see the only three things that are coming: more treats for soldier, more crit gimmicks for pyro, and more cosmetics for ＥＶＥＲＹＯＮＥ[/QUOTE] I'm talking about Doom II's super shotgun. Not Ultimate Quake's Super Shotgun. Sorry bout' the confusion... [quote][video=youtube;Huc1c6W3SzU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huc1c6W3SzU[/video][/quote] It was extremely powerful at close range, and reloaded after every shot, which used up two shotgun rounds.

[QUOTE=Kegan;52563924]Brutal Doom is a bit of a joke. But really if they were to do a center viewed shotgun, I think it should be modeled after Quake 1's shotgun. As much as I love Doom and its boomstick, Quake's shotgun has a slightly more distinct visual look to it.[/QUOTE] Q1 shotgun would also fit better with the stock shotgun firing speed (and it's mostly the same animation anyway too) that + axe melee skin for soldier and we're all set

[QUOTE=comet1337;52564018]Q1 shotgun would also fit better with the stock shotgun firing speed (and it's mostly the same animation anyway too) that + axe melee skin for soldier and we're all set[/QUOTE] An axe melee reskin wouldn't make sense, because the soldier's default melee actually does damage. :v:

[QUOTE=Kegan;52564028]An axe melee reskin wouldn't make sense, because the soldier's default melee actually does damage. :v:[/QUOTE] With the exception of Spy and Engineer, who had a wrench and knife specifically. All classes default melee weapon in QuakeWorld Team Fortress used the Quake Axe as their melee. Medic's had a special skin though ( technically two skins actually ) applied to his though.

Oooh centered view models look really nice. I would definitely like to see that become an option.

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;52563982] Someone also made a BFG Model that acts as a reskin of the Cowmangler... I'd totally use that more often if it got in lol. [video=youtube;ijgIIOfMdk4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijgIIOfMdk4[/video][/QUOTE] what i find most impressive about that are the muzzle flash and explosion effects

Quick poll : Optimistic - 15th of August first day page, 16th second, 17th third Agree - 16th first day, 17th second Friendly - 16th just one day update Disagree - anything else

Don't expect anything till much later. Its been over 400 days since anything meaningful has happened, and some of these changes have been discussed already by the community for nearly half a decade like the spy ones. What makes you think valve is in any hurry? They have no bosses or concept of timely deadlines.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52564426]Don't expect anything till much later. Its been over 400 days since anything meaningful has happened, and some of these changes have been discussed already by the community for nearly half a decade like the spy ones. What makes you think valve is in any hurry? They have no bosses or concept of timely deadlines.[/QUOTE] This goes both ways, you know. Quite literally the only thing we have that can be used to estimate an ETA is Driller saying "We are actively trying to finish and ship it" - which to me personally doesn't sound like september, and does sound like they want this update out sooner than later.