Final Major Update Speculation V37 - This is the last MUS thread. Speculate in General Chat. - Games

If such a massive rumor is true, then this update is make-it or break-it for TF, which is pretty much how most players already feel about the update's impact on the game. Whether it's true or not, TF2's on the edge of irrelevancy for many casual players. Hard-core fans will always remain, but public interest is dipping. I'll admit I haven't sat down and played TF thoroughly since before MYM. But I want this to be what reels me back in, so badly.

If valve wanted to make a roadplan, they would focus their efforts on creating the conditions for competitive TF2 to prosper. They seem to intend that, given the weapon balances and extensive amount of time spent on the update. Without competitive, the game can only hold a chance to grow based on its jump-the-shark tactics like holiday events and cosmetic memes. Otherwise you're looking at years of more uninspired community content drops filling the space in between contract updates. In my opinion, the game will always survive no matter what, but it will never prosper unless valve makes an effort to really grow the esport scene to a new level. Valve knows what content is needed for this. Weapon balances, placement matches, class tweaks. What I worry about is whether they know how to sell this to the general public, which has written off TF2 as a past-its-prime hat simulator. They need to sell the fact that it's mechanically perplex and spectatively entertaining but also relatively easy and fun to get into as a serious game. This is what I worry about. I don't think they would ever support or so much as host a tournament, which would be a good start to this, and I don't think they would ever try and force pub players into a scenario where they have to play competitive, because there's a legitimate casual audience who doesn't like competitive. Competitive needs to be made fun, and then people need an incentive to try the ropes. If valve can make a solution that isn't easily exploitable, that's the best case scenario.

[QUOTE=Punchy;52445019]If valve wanted to make a roadplan, they would focus their efforts on creating the conditions for competitive TF2 to prosper. They seem to intend that, given the weapon balances and extensive amount of time spent on the update. Without competitive, the game can only hold a chance to grow based on its jump-the-shark tactics like holiday events and cosmetic memes. Otherwise you're looking at years of more uninspired community content drops filling the space in between contract updates. In my opinion, the game will always survive no matter what, but it will never prosper unless valve makes an effort to really grow the esport scene to a new level. Valve knows what content is needed for this. Weapon balances, placement matches, class tweaks. What I worry about is whether they know how to sell this to the general public, which has written off TF2 as a past-its-prime hat simulator. They need to sell the fact that it's mechanically perplex and spectatively entertaining but also relatively easy and fun to get into as a serious game. This is what I worry about. I don't think they would ever support or so much as host a tournament, which would be a good start to this, and I don't think they would ever try and force pub players into a scenario where they have to play competitive, because there's a legitimate casual audience who doesn't like competitive. Competitive needs to be made fun, and then people need an incentive to try the ropes. If valve can make a solution that isn't easily exploitable, that's the best case scenario.[/QUOTE] I mostly agree, except for one thing Competitive already [I]is[/I] fun, it just needs to [I]work.[/I]

[t]http://i.imgur.com/EFsTGq8.jpg[/t] I guess they reckon since we can wait 12 months, we can wait longer.

[QUOTE=Seaner23;52444565]As was said on VNN's stream, it might be coming this month,but it might also come in august. Again, I'm not sure if this is true.[/QUOTE] anyone can make a video in which they say "HMMM UPDATE MIGHT COME OUT THIS WEEK FOLKS /OR/ THE FOLLOWING MONTH. WHATCHA THINK FOLKS" i'll give VNN credit, a lot of people seem to like his videos because he groups forum gossip and internet tidbits into easily digestible things for the masses and occasionally does some unique, exclusive pieces of content but boy do you need to quit dunking your head into unsourced claims like a TF2 roadmap and doing stupid stuff like that twitch title at least you respond well to critique

[QUOTE=gjw22;52445041]I mostly agree, except for one thing Competitive already [I]is[/I] fun, it just needs to [I]work.[/I][/QUOTE] Competitive is a sour memory term for a lot of casual players though. I mean for gods sake the 'big competitive update' of M.Y.M. basically tore out the old quickplay system with a rusty fork and gave us the fucking joke of the first casual system. No autobalance (this is a bad thing), no map votes, no ad-hoc connections, no medal-level teambalancing, a RIDICULOUS idea for a leaver's penalty (something that [B][U]NO[/U] GAME, INCLUDING VALVE'S OWN CS:GO AND DOTA 2, HAS IN ITS CASUAL MODE[/B]) and basically a broken system for a week. The update for quickplay had no real benefits except "It has a badge and progress bar!"

30 new posts and it's just people getting mad at Tyler again

[QUOTE=Stroheim;52445075]Competitive is a sour memory term for a lot of casual players though. I mean for gods sake the 'big competitive update' of M.Y.M. basically tore out the old quickplay system with a rusty fork and gave us the fucking joke of the first casual system. No autobalance (this is a bad thing), no map votes, no ad-hoc connections, no medal balancing, a RIDICULOUS idea for a leaver's penalty (something that [B]NO GAME HAS IN ITS CASUAL MODE[/B]) and basically a broken system for a week. The update for quickplay had no real benefits except "It has a badge and progress bar!"[/QUOTE] And they removed Stopwatch which was actually a good thing. It encouraged teams to beat the time, made matches shorter, more competitive and also fun. Now everyone just leaves if they're losing or the round is taking too long. Sadly I don't think Valve wants to restore the stopwatch clock because redditors bitched about it not being "casual" enough, when the real problem was the abandon penalty. Valve should have waited a few months before deciding on whether to keep Stopwatch, rather than hastily reacting to the "I WANT QUICKPLAY PUBS BACK" whining threads.

[QUOTE=Contra132;52445102]30 new posts and it's just people getting mad at Tyler again[/QUOTE] guess we should stick to trying to predict update and blog post times despite every year someone posting there's no correlation to be found. either that or page long diatribes on balance it's a forum bub, topics ebb and flow

TBH VNN did pull a Max Box on this stream with the whole "I KNOW OF THIS SECRET ROADMAP FOR THE FUTURE OF THE GAME" thing. Where's the source on that one?

[QUOTE=fendermcbender;52445152]guess we should stick to trying to predict update and blog post times despite every year someone posting there's no correlation to be found. either that or page long diatribes on balance it's a forum bub, topics ebb and flow[/QUOTE] I was surprised to see a sudden surge of posts when the previous mood in the thread was "yeah we're probably not getting it anytime soon" and activity died down significantly the sudden surge of activity made me think perhaps something had happened to change that, and I wound up being sorely disappointed when that wasn't the case

[QUOTE=Stroheim;52445157]TBH VNN did pull a Max Box on this stream with the whole "I KNOW OF THIS SECRET ROADMAP FOR THE FUTURE OF THE GAME" thing. Where's the source on that one?[/QUOTE] He was most likely going of what he sees as TF2's future. It makes a shred of sense that the Pyro/Jungle update would be a last ditch effort to show that the game is worth it overall.

[QUOTE=Stroheim;52445157]TBH VNN did pull a Max Box on this stream with the whole "I KNOW OF THIS SECRET ROADMAP FOR THE FUTURE OF THE GAME" thing. Where's the source on that one?[/QUOTE] It's in the video of his last twitch stream which was linked on the last page. I don't have the time to find the timestamp but it was pretty far in (45 minutes to an hour) and he talks about it before the Q&A section. I believe he said a little birdie told him about it so he's keeping any source confidential. Assuming it's true I would guess it was one of the saxxy winners who recently visited the TF2 team that told him about it but who knows.

[QUOTE=gjw22;52445041]I mostly agree, except for one thing Competitive already [I]is[/I] fun, it just needs to [I]work.[/I][/QUOTE] Organized competitive is fun. No class limits and unbanned shitty weapons isn't, which is what current in-game competitive is.

You know what the game needs more than some 'improved' competitive and a flaregun? [B]Hatless Update 2: Bugfix Boogaloo.[/B] Or even something as basic as the 2013 cosmetic update (with the 9 crates and the fuck ton of weapon changes). Just something that just improves the quality of the game

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52445198]It's in the video of his last twitch stream which was linked on the last page. I don't have the time to find the timestamp but it was pretty far in (45 minutes to an hour) and he talks about it before the Q&A section. I believe he said a little birdie told him about it so he's keeping any source confidential. Assuming it's true I would guess it was one of the saxxy winners who recently visited the TF2 team that told him about it but who knows.[/QUOTE] I doubt that's a legitimate leak. It makes no sense that Valve would inform -- of all people -- VNN or a saxxy winner that the game is essentially going to maybe [i]die[/i] if the next update doesn't go well. I honestly don't think Valve would tell that to [i]anyone[/i], considering that one of the factors behind a game's longevity is [i]player trust that it will continue to be developed[/i]. Valve wouldn't risk leaking that shit. Consider this: when is the last time we've had any leaks whatsoever that had to do with Valve's roadmap for the game? The only leaks we've had were content-related.

Random speculation. - Mantreads Changes: +75% push-force reduction now includes airblast Added: +200% air control when blast jumping - "+75% push-force reduction now includes airblast" Are there any items that exist right now that [B]reduce[/B] airblast's power without nullifying it completely? Because if not, this change is a big sign that airblast has been fundamentally changed (e.g. based on explosive knockback now instead of being an overly reliable stun) for the better. 1 of 5 things I had hoped for the Pyro, so he would become a more skill-based class. those 5 things being: airblast requires skill (based on explosive knockback and momentum) fire requires skill (visible fire particles attached to hitboxes) fire has more power (at one time i wanted it to be triple what it is now :V) extra mobility (give detonator its old jump power, increase pyro's speed to that of the medic, etc) phasing out combos (reducing amount of crit-based weapons) those 5 things alone would make pyro the monster of close combat he should be, as well as the spy counter he's supposed to have been this whole time.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;52445287]Random speculation. - Mantreads Changes: +75% push-force reduction now includes airblast Added: +200% air control when blast jumping - "+75% push-force reduction now includes airblast" Are there any items that exist right now that [B]reduce[/B] airblast's power without nullifying it completely? Because if not, this change is a big sign that airblast has been fundamentally changed (e.g. based on explosive knockback now instead of being an overly reliable stun) for the better. 1 of 5 things I had hoped for the Pyro, so he would become a more skill-based class. those 5 things being: airblast requires skill (based on explosive knockback and momentum) fire requires skill (visible fire particles attached to hitboxes) fire has more power (at one time i wanted it to be triple what it is now :V) extra mobility (give detonator its old jump power, increase pyro's speed to that of the medic, etc) phasing out combos (reducing amount of crit-based weapons) those 5 things alone would make pyro the monster of close combat he should be, as well as the spy counter he's supposed to have been this whole time.[/QUOTE] If that's what we're going to be seeing, that sounds great but, valve and their changes(either buffing it to the high heavens or nerfing it to hell). I hope this doesn't change.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;52445287] Are there any items that exist right now that [B]reduce[/B] airblast's power without nullifying it completely? Because if not, this change is a big sign that airblast has been fundamentally changed (e.g. based on explosive knockback now instead of being an overly reliable stun) for the better.[/QUOTE] there isn't. however, there are attributes already in place that specifically resist airblast. These are used in mvm. Valve will most likely use those attributes on the treads and airblast itself will not be mechanically changed

[QUOTE=geel9;52445251]I doubt that's a legitimate leak. It makes no sense that Valve would inform -- of all people -- VNN or a saxxy winner that the game is essentially going to maybe [i]die[/i] if the next update doesn't go well. I honestly don't think Valve would tell that to [i]anyone[/i], considering that one of the factors behind a game's longevity is [i]player trust that it will continue to be developed[/i]. Valve wouldn't risk leaking that shit. Consider this: when is the last time we've had any leaks whatsoever that had to do with Valve's roadmap for the game? The only leaks we've had were content-related.[/QUOTE] We haven't revived any leaks pertaining to content in quite a long time now. Up until this point, those "leaks" have more often then not been intentional to gage feedback on proposed features and additions. I have a feeling that with the blog post and more frequent important email responses, the TF team may see actual communication as a better way of gathering this data. Stark contrast with everything the CS team is pulling, where random code currently suggests TF style hats being added, and no word from the team on the topic. -snip-

this is actually getting absurd, this damn game needs new content

[QUOTE=Jichael;52445416]this is actually getting absurd, this damn game needs new content[/QUOTE] Couldn't agree more. (Yes I get it I'm dumb, move on.)

[QUOTE=valvenews;52445372]We haven't revived any leaks pertaining to content in quite a long time now. Up until this point, those "leaks" have more often then not been intentional to gage feedback on proposed features and additions. I have a feeling that with the blog post and more frequent important email responses, the TF team may see actual communication as a better way of gathering this data. Stark contrast with everything the CS team is pulling, where random code currently suggests TF style hats being added, and no word from the team on the topic. -snip-[/QUOTE] Did I misinterpret what you said on your stream (and it was actually speculation) or did you actually hear from someone that future TF2 support depends on the performance of the jungle/pyro update? I though it was pretty clear that you heard it from someone but I could be wrong.

[QUOTE=Jichael;52445416]this is actually getting absurd, this damn game needs new content[/QUOTE] I will be happy if I get to read a line in the update log starting with something like [i]-core updates[/i] or [i]-optimization changes and improvements[/i]. I want to be able to use the settings I had just 9 months ago.

I'd like to think that the game playerbase would be more happy and growing if it would get steady content updates. I understand that with the current team size and their other priorities, we can never go back to the times pre 2012. However, i'd like to see an update arriving more that 6 months apart. The long "springbreak" is so frustrating and annoyingly long time without nothing new to play on. The most annoyingly long delay between updates is the time between smissmas and summer update. Wouldn't it be smart to have something to release around march? Something like [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/communitymappack/"]Community mappack was[/URL] and bundle that with some items crate such as the mayflower but name it springflower. A lot of people would be more than happy to help them out, if they just would pitch in a bit well ahead of time like they did with the jungle stuff. Now there's more than 30+ maps in the workshop for them to consider, as well as hundreds of items to choose from.

[QUOTE=ics;52445687]I'd like to think that the game playerbase would be more happy and growing if it would get steady content updates. I understand that with the current team size and their other priorities, we can never go back to the times pre 2012. However, i'd like to see an update arriving more that 6 months apart. The long "springbreak" is so frustrating and annoyingly long time without nothing new to play on. The most annoyingly long delay between updates is the time between smissmas and summer update. Wouldn't it be smart to have something to release around march? Something like [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/communitymappack/"]Community mappack was[/URL] and bundle that with some items crate such as the mayflower but name it springflower. A lot of people would be more than happy to help them out, if they just would pitch in a bit well ahead of time like they did with the jungle stuff. Now there's more than 30+ maps in the workshop for them to consider, as well as hundreds of items to choose from.[/QUOTE] Yeah I think an MVM update in March/April (sometime shortly with Christmas campaign ends assuming we're still getting those) with mostly community content would be a very good way to fill out the first half of the year [editline]8th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=geel9;52445251]I doubt that's a legitimate leak. It makes no sense that Valve would inform -- of all people -- VNN or a saxxy winner that the game is essentially going to maybe [i]die[/i] if the next update doesn't go well. I honestly don't think Valve would tell that to [i]anyone[/i], considering that one of the factors behind a game's longevity is [i]player trust that it will continue to be developed[/i]. Valve wouldn't risk leaking that shit. Consider this: when is the last time we've had any leaks whatsoever that had to do with Valve's roadmap for the game? The only leaks we've had were content-related.[/QUOTE] Yeah I actually agree with this, I don't see Valve telling that to any outsiders if that were the case. It also seems to be counter to how Valve runs their company (unless everyone on the team decided to call it quits unless the update is a big hit which seems unlikely). I'm just reporting what I heard.

[QUOTE=ics;52445687]I'd like to think that the game playerbase would be more happy and growing if it would get steady content updates. I understand that with the current team size and their other priorities, we can never go back to the times pre 2012. However, i'd like to see an update arriving more that 6 months apart. The long "springbreak" is so frustrating and annoyingly long time without nothing new to play on. The most annoyingly long delay between updates is the time between smissmas and summer update. Wouldn't it be smart to have something to release around march? Something like [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/communitymappack/"]Community mappack was[/URL] and bundle that with some items crate such as the mayflower but name it springflower. A lot of people would be more than happy to help them out, if they just would pitch in a bit well ahead of time like they did with the jungle stuff. Now there's more than 30+ maps in the workshop for them to consider, as well as hundreds of items to choose from.[/QUOTE] Even with nothing to play with the game is still fun, however the problem is for the past 4 years the update drought has been unbearably frustrating, because we're waiting on things like fixes to clueless rebalances over the holidays, or patches to bugs introduced while attempting to fix existing ones. If the problem with our developer gets fixed (incompetence, understaffing, whatever it is,) then the game will live on forever in a healthy way, as opposed to just being average.

If after that the TF team can deliver small updates that fix small portions of the game balance then i think most people would appriciate it more than a huge update that breaks everything on the first week.

[QUOTE=valvenews;52445372]We haven't revived any leaks pertaining to content in quite a long time now. Up until this point, those "leaks" have more often then not been intentional to gage feedback on proposed features and additions. I have a feeling that with the blog post and more frequent important email responses, the TF team may see actual communication as a better way of gathering this data. Stark contrast with everything the CS team is pulling, where random code currently suggests TF style hats being added, and no word from the team on the topic. -snip-[/QUOTE] In other words, no. You don't actually have a source on the claim.

Here's the analysis of the main points made in the livestream: [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6lyt7u/analysing_main_points_of_vnns_livestream_the_devs/"]https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6lyt7u/analysing_main_points_of_vnns_livestream_the_devs/[/URL]