Final Major Update Speculation V37 - This is the last MUS thread. Speculate in General Chat. - Games

Then again with all this blueballing from valve its a little difficult not to go ahead of yourself and be grasping on straws.

[QUOTE=Contra132;52449379]Yes. Tyler's returned to the ol' days of Valve Speculation Network on us. :([/QUOTE] I mean to be fair, we're [I]soooo[/I] close to having this super big update that pretty much everyone's desperately grasping at straws trying to figure out [B]something[/B] about this update that valve is keeping under lock and key. Edit: And I accidentally just repeated what Big Snake Said

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52449194] This change seems to be one of Valve's recent anti-content creator moves in the past few years that I don't like. The other is them not buying the art assets for campaign maps so future map creators can't freely use them like the do old maps. Sadly most players have no idea about this and it's likely nothing will happen.[/QUOTE] I dont think valve is against content creators. The stuff (models, textures, sounds, etc) that are inside the maps is just easier to manage if they are packed into the bsp. So they can pack the stuff in before they add the mapfile as part of the official game depot instead of spreading the files all over the depot under different paths and such. Some of that stuff in custom maps is map spesific like signs/sign_carving01 that ended up in the game with the sunshine assets bought by Valve. Not all maps have custom content that should be included into the game, some have practically nothing new to add in. However, i welcome all new models and textures that i can use freely in the maps that i create. About the 2 different ways of adding maps to the game, I assume the bsp packed one (all files in one map file) is for maps that get paid over time by being part of certain update and the other is for just "getting it and paid now".

[QUOTE=Serge Ivanov;52449386]I mean to be fair, we're [I]soooo[/I] close to having this super big update that pretty much everyone's desperately grasping at straws trying to figure out [B]something[/B] about this update that valve is keeping under lock and key. Edit: And I accidentally just repeated what Big Snake Said[/QUOTE] Yeah, and that's what MUS is for. But Reddit, and larger, more general TF2 communities, seem to unflinchingly believe whatever Tyler says. And this is a serious problem when he shares unsubstantiated, explosive rumors like this one. Like it or not, VNN is one of the most influential voices in this community, and that comes with a certain degree of responsibility. A responsibility he...isn't showing by sharing rumors like this one in an extended livestream with a clickbait title.

To be fair Valve probably does have some kind of future road map for TF2. The chances that someone who has access to it sent an email to Tyler with said road map is somewhat less likely.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52449399]To be fair Valve probably does have some kind of future road map for TF2. The chances that someone who has access to it sent an email to Tyler with said road map is somewhat less likely.[/QUOTE] To be honest, I didn't even know I had this responsibility until after I did the stream. I'm still operating on the idea that I'm trying to grow, and I'm still miles behind everyone I work with. I'm quickly learning here however, and I have a plan going forward. I'd really like to move the conversation more towards update speculation on this thread though, although I appreciate the criticism.

[QUOTE=ics;52449393]I dont think valve is against content creators. The stuff (models, textures, sounds, etc) that are inside the maps is just easier to manage if they are packed into the bsp. So they can pack the stuff in before they add the mapfile as part of the official game depot instead of spreading the files all over the depot under different paths and such. Some of that stuff in custom maps is map spesific like signs/sign_carving01 that ended up in the game with the sunshine assets bought by Valve. Not all maps have custom content that should be included into the game, some have practically nothing new to add in. However, i welcome all new models and textures that i can use freely in the maps that i create. About the 2 different ways of adding maps to the game, I assume the bsp packed one (all files in one map file) is for maps that get paid over time by being part of certain update and the other is for just "getting it and paid now".[/QUOTE] Maybe I'm wrong but you can't use any of the custom content from the Gun Mettle, Tough Break or Halloween 2015/2016 maps correct? If you wanted to use something from one of them you would need to get permission from whoever created the asset, unlike any previous community maps that were made official (or any of the maps from Meet Your Match which Valve seemed to buy the old way since they didn't have a campaign). I don't think Valve considers maps from campaigns fully bought and owned assets like old community maps. Honestly I just want to see all the custom content from those maps available to map makers freely for future use like old community maps. I would also love to see Valve buy the asset packs produced for TF2maps.net and made freely available to all map creators but I just don't see that happening.

[QUOTE=valvenews;52449410]To be honest, I didn't even know I had this responsibility until after I did the stream. I'm still operating on the idea that I'm trying to grow, and I'm still miles behind everyone I work with. I'm quickly learning here however, and I have a plan going forward. I'd really like to move the conversation more towards update speculation on this thread though, although I appreciate the criticism.[/QUOTE] Glad you're listening. Don't take it personally- I'm subbed to you, I like your content, and I've enjoyed seeing you grow. Just avoid clickbaiting and make the source of any rumors/speculation [B][I]extremely[/I][/B] clear, or we'll get a thousand reddit threads about them being taken as objective truth every time

[QUOTE=valvenews;52449410]To be honest, I didn't even know I had this responsibility until after I did the stream. I'm still operating on the idea that I'm trying to grow, and I'm still miles behind everyone I work with. I'm quickly learning here however, and I have a plan going forward. I'd really like to move the conversation more towards update speculation on this thread though, although I appreciate the criticism.[/QUOTE] I really do think you're doing a lot better than the early days of your channel (I even remember back in your early days you posted some incorrect information on End of the Line in a video and I posted it in your comment section. You asked me about it and I gave you a link to McVee's blog that had info on EotL so I give you credit for that too) but you gotta be careful with major info like a possible TF2 road map, since I imagine a lot of people will take anything you say as fact. In journalism there's the 2 source rule, where if you have some sort of major unannounced information (like a possible TF2 future roadmap) you want to have 2 different sources on it before you publish that information (there might be some expectations, like if it's a known good source that would have access to that information). I would definitely suggest following that rule.

[QUOTE=Contra132;52449420]Glad you're listening. Don't take it personally- I'm subbed to you, I like your content, and I've enjoyed seeing you grow. Just avoid clickbaiting and make the source of any rumors/speculation [B][I]extremely[/I][/B] clear, or we'll get a thousand reddit threads about them being taken as objective truth every time[/QUOTE] I can't agree enough with this. Clickbait is something that seems like a good idea at first but nearly always comes back to haunt you later.

[QUOTE=valvenews;52446798]Most of the stream was my thoughts on different things I've been told over the last year and a half from a bunch of different places. I was told about the roadmap, however I didn't think it was so believable that I put it in a full video. Historically streams got very little attention, even if the title was click bate, however this seems to be people taking all of my ramblings as confirmed truth because I didn't have my "speculation" sign up in the corner. I was using the stream to filter through my own ideas to get a refined script written, but it appears to all have backfired. I am sorry for the whole mess, and I will answer any questions is necessary.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/4qmLehJ.png[/img] [b]Taunt Equipped: The Schadenfreude[/b] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting + History" - Bradyns))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52449412]Maybe I'm wrong but you can't use any of the custom content from the Gun Mettle, Tough Break or Halloween 2015/2016 maps correct? If you wanted to use something from one of them you would need to get permission from whoever created the asset, unlike any previous community maps that were made official (or any of the maps from Meet Your Match which Valve seemed to buy the old way since they didn't have a campaign). I don't think Valve considers maps from campaigns fully bought and owned assets like old community maps. Honestly I just want to see all the custom content from those maps available to map makers freely for future use like old community maps. I would also love to see Valve buy the asset packs produced for TF2maps.net and made freely available to all map creators but I just don't see that happening.[/QUOTE] No you are correct, stuff that is packed into map bsp cannot be used directly by map makers as they are not part of the game files, but instead the map files. Old maps were not part of campaigns, but neither were the more recently acquired maps sunshine, metalworks or swiftwater that have their files in the game. I dont know the exact legal situation of the maps but i do know they just cannot take any maps from the workshop and include it into the game without the author accepting it. This is why map makers will have to submit the map along with all files to them separately and include all people who contributed. For asset packs, this is propably unpopular opinion but i don't think all of them fit to TF2 that well. Valve did add the swamp pack, but none since. I think they do not want just huge load of assets, but instead select ones, such as the ones that particular map use and it's easier to manage and include them if they are only used in that one map.

I think the Roadmap idea is great to be quite honest.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;52449522]I think the Roadmap idea is great to be quite honest.[/QUOTE] If it was real and not a fake idea VNN presented as fact for views and drama.

Why would they give the community back the ability to make updates after the absolute [B]shitshow/greedfest[/B] that was Invasion? I mean that's literally one of the reasons where stuck in a content death spiral right now.

He didn't say that though, he said they could keep like two people on the tf2 team to add packs of community made content every now and then.

[QUOTE=Stroheim;52449548]Why would they give the community back the ability to make updates after the absolute [B]shitshow/greedfest of a Update[/B] that was Invasion?[/QUOTE] Invasion changed their policy and in a better way. Now everyone can contribute, once they announce something such as the jungle stuff is instead of few selected people who work towards finishing the update in a small circle of people. Quite frankly the new way is far better than the old one for the reason i already mentioned. Community can produce out great stuff that Valve can then choose what they like and think they fit in the most. Recent jungle stuff is great example. Over 200 jungle themed items in the workshop and over 30 maps have come out. Some of the items are branded only jungle despite being submitted for something else first though and some maps have been converted to jungle maps but there are original works too. [editline]9th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=VX-79;52449558]He didn't say that though, he said they could keep like two people on the tf2 team to add packs of community made content every now and then.[/QUOTE] This type of content model would lead to games slow death over time. Valve needs to be making content too as well as new features and whatnot, not just community alone.

[QUOTE=VX-79;52449558]He didn't say that though, he said they could keep like two people on the tf2 team to add packs of community made content every now and then.[/QUOTE] '[I]Content Packs[/I] now and then' sounds like 'they' (because this leak reeks of fake rumors) would just be making a bunch of tiered boxes with random shit in it like they did with Mayflower and Rainy Day. Except I, and a lot of other people, don't want boxes. We want literally anything other than boxes. We'll take [B]fucking easy mode bot improvements and lime color fixes for Linux[/B] than box updates alone.

Valve isn't so good at choosing fitting items for contribution packs though. While the items are definitely well-made and there on the quality end, the last few cosmetic cases (sans rainy day) have contained random parts of unadded workshop sets, Halloween hats in normal crates/silly items made into elite grade all classes, and different versions of existing hats. Not to mention giving full sets to the same 3-4 classes every update and an all-class beanie or two for everyone else. Tiered item cases need a rework.

[QUOTE=Stroheim;52449568]'[I]Content Packs[/I] now and then' sounds like 'they' (because this leak reeks of fake rumors) would just be making a bunch of tiered boxes with random shit in it like they did with Mayflower and Rainy Day. Except I, and a lot of other people, don't want boxes. We want literally anything other than boxes. We'll take [B]fucking easy mode bot improvements and lime color fixes for Linux[/B] than box updates alone.[/QUOTE] I don't necessarily think the "leak" is 100% real either, but at some point major updates have to end and adding a map and a few cosmetics a couple of times a year would honestly be a best case scenario if they also manage to get their shit together and tie up the game's major loose ends by then.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52448548]They did it with WoW.[/QUOTE] MMO players are a special kind of braindead, it wouldn't work here.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;52449615]MMO players are a special kind of braindead, it wouldn't work here.[/QUOTE] are we doing that community elitism thing again but now with vidya genres because I wouldnt exactly call michealo.andrez2005 the top of minds

[QUOTE=Fluury;52449789]michealo.andrez2005[/QUOTE] I had to stop and think for a minute "2005? what happened in 2005?" until I realized there are people [I]born[/I] that year who play TF2 :v:

[QUOTE=Schohns;52449801]I had to stop and think for a minute "2005? what happened in 2005?" until I realized there are people [I]born[/I] that year who play TF2 :v:[/QUOTE] The amount of times I've seen a firstname.lastname account on TF2 is beyond my counting. Sometimes I can't tell if they're doing it ironically or not, or they signed into steam using their mother's email account.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;52449615]MMO players are a special kind of braindead, it wouldn't work here.[/QUOTE] Clearly we players of a 10 year old game that doesn't even update anymore have superior intellect.

[QUOTE=ics;52449565]Invasion changed their policy and in a better way. Now everyone can contribute, once they announce something such as the jungle stuff is instead of few selected people who work towards finishing the update in a small circle of people. Quite frankly the new way is far better than the old one for the reason i already mentioned. Community can produce out great stuff that Valve can then choose what they like and think they fit in the most. Recent jungle stuff is great example. Over 200 jungle themed items in the workshop and over 30 maps have come out. Some of the items are branded only jungle despite being submitted for something else first though and some maps have been converted to jungle maps but there are original works too.[/QUOTE] I entirely disagree about this. Before (excepting the shitshow that went on with invasion) we had small groups that worked hard to make a full thing. By grouping up and producing high quality work it reduced uncertainty. I knew I was going to get paid for my work in EOTL regardless of whether snowplow shipped or not. When I joined Mayann it was a handful of people, working in the same way. We'll create something rad, something that Valve would be silly to snub, the work we invested was low risk. Then they changed how they want to work with updates and now it's open to everyone and anyone. So the chance of any particular piece of work being included goes down [I]dramatically[/I], and there's no safety buffer of the team leader ensuring everyone is paid for the work they did, even if it got cut. Valve's change in policy turned fairly low risk spec work into [I]extremely[/I] high risk spec work, and as any freelancer will tell you: Fuck spec work. This is why I'm finishing pl_ququmannz and arena_sacrifice for the Mayann team and then I'm bouncing from TF2. I love the game, I love making levels for it, but I hate working for free. At one point I wanted to make TF2 level work my dayjob, but Valve have made that impossible for me

I wonder if valve does it because they want to make more profit from community content or they simply dont understand the effect of their actions and they want to avert invasion happening at all cost. Then again valve does have a history of leaving almost no profit for community contributors.Even when you could buy their hat direcly from the store.

I doubt valve cares about maximizing their income from contributors. I'm more inclined to believe it's just a safety measure to avoid headaches down the road, even if that means making things more difficult for contributors.

I hope they will improve the texture streaming thingy its a bit annoying to see the texture of your weapon (festive sandwich, sapper or blueprints) fading in before being high res.

I will gladly sacrifice a hat generation to the retire gods if that means we can get a Iron Curtain strangifier