Final Major Update Speculation V37 - This is the last MUS thread. Speculate in General Chat. - Games

[QUOTE=quake84;52333244]Scaleform for TF2 would mean no more custom huds ever, so I seriously hope it never comes. Reminder that CS:GO doesn't have custom huds, because the flash files used by scaleform contain executable scripts which people used to cheat / have "legit" ingame ESP at all times and could also use to infect with malware etc. Valve promised to re-introduce the custom huds to CSGO which they then proceeded to never ever do. Sauce: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1kd9rt/custom_hudsbanned/cbnw94e/[/url] Disabled 3 years ago, and has yet to be re-enabled.[/QUOTE] Maybe we'll see it with panorama?

The "friends beta" is the friends beta for Steam. When HL2 came out. Over a decade ago. All those files are just HL2 files. They mean nothing. It's the tracker being weird.

[QUOTE=quake84;52331064]Working with old/not your code usually means that even the simplest changes can uncover an underlying issue that you will need to invest work hours to solve. You clearly underestimate the headache potential of a 10 year old game. [/QUOTE] I'd love a work environment where I could "work on what I want, when I want." But there's a very apparent flaw with this system. From one of VNN's recorded interviews when he visited Valve HQ, a question was asked along the lines of why Valve isn't more open with their source material. Valve's response was... "We don't keep a tidy paper trail..."~ Doesn't this lack of prep undermine the freedom for people to work on what they want? At the time of TF2's release, I'm not certain the team thought they would be able to get away with more content, but they learned otherwise. And to no ones surprise, a lot of the original TF2 team left for other projects as time went on. I wont blame the current team for having to teach themselves the way of the code for TF2, but shouldn't crunch time be [I]all the time[/I] then? Which leads me to wonder... [QUOTE=geel9;52330227]They pushed a patch out on a Saturday which means they're working weekends. They may like tf2 but they don't like it enough to work a weekend unless they're in crunch mode.[/QUOTE] [I]What are they doing while not in crunch mode.[/I]

[QUOTE=grif;52333508]I'd love a work environment where I could "work on what I want, when I want." But there's a very apparent flaw with this system. From one of VNN's recorded interviews when he visited Valve HQ, a question was asked along the lines of why Valve isn't more open with their source material. Valve's response was... "We don't keep a tidy paper trail..."~ Doesn't this lack of prep undermine the freedom for people to work on what they want? At the time of its release, I'm not certain the team thought they would be able to get away with more content, but they learned otherwise. And to no ones surprise, a lot of the original TF2 team left for other projects as time went on. I wont blame the current team for having to teach themselves the way of the code for TF2, but shouldn't crunch time be [i]all the time[/i] then? Which leads me to wonder... [i]What they are doing while not in crunch mode.[/i][/QUOTE] Why would they be in crunch mode "all the time"? That's not how software development works. They're still doing work when they're not in crunch mode. They're just not going ham. They're doing a reasonable level of work. It's absurd to ask someone to dedicate all of their time to something 100% of the time. That's a really phenomenal way to get burnout.

[QUOTE=geel9;52333516]Why would they be in crunch mode "all the time"? They're still doing work when they're not in crunch mode. They're just not going ham. They're doing a reasonable level of work. [/QUOTE] I'm not suggesting they should damn near suffocate themselves with an overload of work. But is it really too much to ask for a team to get its bearings as soon as possible before attempting to add to/change an existing system without a [i]paper trail[/i] to follow? [QUOTE]It's absurd to ask someone to dedicate all of their time to something 100% of the time. That's a really phenomenal way to get burnout.[/QUOTE] I can't imagine what coders behind the more recent Call of Duty and Battlefield titles have experienced. With the two companies in a gridlock race to release a 1UP each year... I think DRiller put it nicely... (Paraphrasing off memory, forgive me...) "As time goes on, expectations get larger." .. Although I have an opinion that disputes what DRiller said, I think what he said fits for a sequel title that has had well over a hundred updates. [QUOTE] That's not how software development works.[/QUOTE] :stop:

The thing that sets valve away from other companies is that they aren't always taking every shortcut they can to get an update done. At least, that's why people liked them for a while before they did exactly just that. From an optimistic perspective, they ideally wouldn't go down that road again. But what you're saying is essentially that they SHOULD consider every day crunch mode, which is what they did for MYM, which is what led to my pathetic perception of their company today. They should make adjustments to make every update better than the last, but they shouldn't be whipping employees into getting more done. They need better workload organization and propose a solution to this "nobody wants to work on our game" problem that's apparently so crippling that the only remnants of the TFTeam are the 5 people left at valve that actually have any glimmer of interest in the game.

[QUOTE=grif;52333577]I'm not suggesting they should damn near suffocate themselves with an overload of work. But is it really too much to ask for a team to get its bearings as soon as possible before attempting to add to/change an existing system without a [i]paper trail[/i] to follow? [/QUOTE] I believe Tyler wanted the development history of the game. Art, story, character, gameplay design, etc. All that would be buried in archives. Unless someone was dedicated to maintaining clean and organized records, following that paper trail into that past would be a HUGE undertaking. For the development of the software, I don't think we've heard much on that. That's something few people would be interested in so it's not something you'd get in interviews. I'm curious only because that's what I do for a living. It'd be reasonable to expect them to have version control and plans to achieve their goals. Documentation is probably lacking, but there's plenty of knowledge in-house: just gotta know the right person to ask. Beyond that, they're the ones most familiar with their own needs, so I trust they're utilizing their resources to the best of their knowledge.

[QUOTE=Punchy;52333703]The thing that sets valve away from other companies is that they aren't always taking every shortcut they can to get an update done. At least, that's why people liked them for a while before they did exactly just that. From an optimistic perspective, they ideally wouldn't go down that road again. But what you're saying is essentially that they SHOULD consider every day crunch mode, which is what they did for MYM, which is what led to my pathetic perception of their company today. They should make adjustments to make every update better than the last, but they shouldn't be whipping employees into getting more done. They need better workload organization and propose a solution to this "nobody wants to work on our game" problem that's apparently so crippling that the only remnants of the TFTeam are the 5 people left at valve that actually have any glimmer of interest in the game.[/QUOTE] remind yourself that valve already has a relatively low employee count for a company so influential like when you put those 5 people in the scope of a total of what, 300? most of which probably work directly on steam, customer support, or VR, the rest being left to work on the actual games (DOTA, CS:GO, L4D3, and TF2) you realize that the few people who actually work on TF2 are still probably a relatively fair portion of the total manpower at work on just games at valve hopefully the new office changes this

[QUOTE=ikes;52333848]remind yourself that valve already has a relatively low employee count for a company so influential like when you put those 5 people in the scope of a total of what, 300? most of which probably work directly on steam, customer support, or VR, the rest being left to work on the actual games (DOTA, CS:GO, L4D3, and TF2) you realize that the few people who actually work on TF2 are still probably a relatively fair portion of the total manpower at work on just games at valve hopefully the new office changes this[/QUOTE] As i recall, the csgo gambling related response that valve gave out stated that Valve has 450+ employees. The majority of the people at Valve propably are right now people who don't work games directly but run Steam as it's the main thing Valve does. Support, business relations, Steam software development, steam hardware, datacenters, network engineering, Linux stuff, staff management (yes, it exists), misc stuff, etc. Running this takes a lot of people and resources. This leaves about 200 people to work on the game side. VR development (software and hardware) and Source2 propably eat quite a chunk of those people, especially with 3 VR games coming out later and even though TF2/Dota2/CSGO teams who are about 40-50 people total work on the games they want, they propably are doing something else too. But if you count the numbers, it leaves 0 people to work on any other games. Valve is dimming on the game development side. They havent even released any publications for over 2 years. Last games released were 5 years ago, Portal2, Dota2 and CSGO. An oddly lot of people who have been with the company for a long time have moved on. Instead of making games, that people actually want and look forward to, Valve focus is on Steam and VR. I don't think anyone has courage to go against the flow as they might find themselves outside the company so they rather leave the company. This is of course 100% speculation on my part but i type it as i see it.

[QUOTE=riki2cool;52333020]Neither were the Wee Booties and the Bootlegger.[/QUOTE] a prime example of why some cosmetics, should stay cosmetics

It's not so much the quantity people worry about, but how many of those are veterans of 10 or even 20 years. Laidlaw, Wolpaw, Faliszek and Pinkerton in particular have had a huge impact on what feels to us like "Valve".

[QUOTE=Tinker;52334379]It's not so much the quantity people worry about, but how many of those are veterans of 10 or even 20 years. Laidlaw, Wolpaw, Faliszek and Pinkerton in particular have had a huge impact on what feels to us like "Valve".[/QUOTE] Not to be an asshole towards mentioned people, i truly respect their work and thankful for it, but sometimes the good is the enemy of the best. While for sure there is a risk that quality of Valve stuff may drop, there are also now more opportunities for new people with a different view on the product. Who knows, probably something that feels to us like Valve now is objectively worse than something that will feel to us like Valve in the future, so i think there are things to look forward to.

You're right, but the problem is that Valve currently has so many ongoing products, like the TF2 comic mentioned (written by Wolpaw and Pinkerton), or Half-Life as a series (story at least partially by Laidlaw), that those people leaving makes people worried about the future of those things. Nothing bad about new blood and a turnover of people, Nintendo has recently shown it can work for the better, but it feels like Valve is potentially leaving some stuff unfinished.

[QUOTE=ics;52334147]As i recall, the csgo gambling related response that valve gave out stated that Valve has 450+ employees. The majority of the people at Valve propably are right now people who don't work games directly but run Steam as it's the main thing Valve does. Support, business relations, Steam software development, steam hardware, datacenters, network engineering, Linux stuff, staff management (yes, it exists), misc stuff, etc. Running this takes a lot of people and resources. This leaves about 200 people to work on the game side. VR development (software and hardware) and Source2 propably eat quite a chunk of those people, especially with 3 VR games coming out later and even though TF2/Dota2/CSGO teams who are about 40-50 people total work on the games they want, they propably are doing something else too. But if you count the numbers, it leaves 0 people to work on any other games. Valve is dimming on the game development side. They havent even released any publications for over 2 years. Last games released were 5 years ago, Portal2, Dota2 and CSGO. An oddly lot of people who have been with the company for a long time have moved on. Instead of making games, that people actually want and look forward to, Valve focus is on Steam and VR. I don't think anyone has courage to go against the flow as they might find themselves outside the company so they rather leave the company. This is of course 100% speculation on my part but i type it as i see it.[/QUOTE] Steam Support is outsourced, so there should be more people that can work on games.

Man i want another blog post like this soon [url]http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=8256[/url] It's so simple but it built so much hype, remember when valve themselves had fun with the game.

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;52334521]Steam Support is outsourced, so there should be more people that can work on games.[/QUOTE] Majority of it has been outsourced to 3 companies but the hardest tickets that those cannot handle are still being done by Valve people. Also there are people who have moved from the outsourced ones to Valve to work on.

In any case, E3 is this week until the Thursday the 15th, likely pushing the update further back.

[QUOTE=Upgrade;52335846]In any case, E3 is this week until the Thursday the 15th, likely pushing the update further back.[/QUOTE] that's assuming valve has some major presence at E3, which I doubt. even if they do, I doubt it would go beyond Gabe and a few others showing off some new VR games at the PC gaming conference.

[QUOTE=Man in the Moon;52335143]Man i want another blog post like this soon [url]http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=8256[/url] It's so simple but it built so much hype, remember when valve themselves had fun with the game.[/QUOTE] Kinda fucked up to think that Pyromania is five years old. I still vividly remember being crazy hyped for that update, and lurking this thread during the Poopy Joe ARG.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;52335925]Kinda fucked up to think that Pyromania is five years old. I still vividly remember being crazy hyped for that update, and lurking this thread during the Poopy Joe ARG.[/QUOTE] Do you believe in magic? [sp]I remember the combination of anger and delight at being trolled by Valve that week.[/sp]

[QUOTE=hahagoni_r;52334214][URL="http://www.valvetime.net/threads/whos-left-or-joined-valve-in-recent-history.257815/"]A recap of the people that have left/ joined Valve in recent time[/URL] It's actually not bad as I though it would be[/QUOTE] Looks like all the animators who made Meet the Spy are now back together at Valve since July last year. (Aaron Halifax, Jamaal Bradley, Andrew Burke)

Item Trading

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;52335925]Kinda fucked up to think that Pyromania is five years old. I still vividly remember being crazy hyped for that update, and lurking this thread during the Poopy Joe ARG.[/QUOTE] I still vividly remember the anger and disappointment.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52336230]I still vividly remember the anger and disappointment.[/QUOTE] I still remember everyone being excited for the MVM reveal since Valve had been teasing it for months by adding MVM related stuff to the sound manifest files when updating maps and someone found the images for the day 2 update page early (which were of course just the Pyroland reskins) and everyone was disappointed.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52336230]I still vividly remember the anger and disappointment.[/QUOTE] I don't remember too much disappointment tbh, mostly just salt over pyrovision and doomsday which I thought was hilarious.

Imagine if they teased the update at E3.

And that's why Valve doesn't do ARGs anymore. That sucks, but there were more disappointment from ARGs than there were not. Though, please TF Team, have an ARG here. We promise to not get angry! The other communities aren't good, but we are like little angels. EDIT: Joking.

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;52336311]And that's why Valve doesn't do ARGs anymore. That sucks, but there were more disappointment from ARGs than there were not. Though, please TF Team, have an ARG here. We promise to not get angry! The other communities aren't good, but we are like little angels.[/QUOTE] Good God having an ARG only on Facepunch would be awful. It was bad enough here last year when Jill posted that MyM was going to be Neato and then MyM was delayed and we kept having new people coming here shitposting nonstop. I think there were more bans in MUS during that time than any other time in MUS history. A facepunch ARG would be 1000 times worse. And I don't see Valve every promoting one community over the others like that. It was just awful. I see you registered in August 2016 so I'm not sure if you were actually reading this thread during that time.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52336360]It was bad enough here last year when Jill posted that MyM was going to be Neato and then MyM was delayed and we kept having new people coming here shitposting nonstop. I think there were more bans in MUS during that time than any other time in MUS history.[/QUOTE] consider it a training exercise, you gotta keep those moderators on their toes

[QUOTE=Whomobile;52336283]I don't remember too much disappointment tbh, mostly just salt over pyrovision and doomsday which I thought was hilarious.[/QUOTE] Why were people salty about pyrovision?