Final Major Update Speculation V37 - This is the last MUS thread. Speculate in General Chat. - Games

[QUOTE=Contra132;52302105] In my experience as a competitive Spy player, I've been chased down, roasted and toasted by a number of skilled Pyros versus my Dead Ringer. If we start in close proximity before my feign, I can't outrun the flame particles, and you'll still hear the feedback of the flames hitting the Spy, whether or not you have hitsounds enabled. Track the Spy with your flames, airblast-pin them to a wall, and kill them. Afterburn resistance or not, the overall damage resistance of the new DR is much worse than that of the old one and decreases quickly, so if you can keep track of the Spy he's just as dead as he would be otherwise. Ask any UGC Steel+ Pyro, and they'll tell you the same thing I just did. The DR may be an annoyance, but a skilled Pyro can still shut it down..[/QUOTE] I'm gonna start training more now haha. Thx for the tactic info. Hopefully itll still be effective after whatever changes they make to the pyro in the next update

[QUOTE=Magypsy;52303279]Since Valve promised to release the jungle map assets before the update arrived, implying that they would want to accept a themed map for the Jungle/Pyro update, and they would need to give map makers time to do an art pass, it's safe to assume that the update itself is still a long way away, right?[/QUOTE] I'd expect them to give out the assets when there's 1 - 2 weeks left to the update, as that's plenty of time to let the map maker(s) give their map an art pass with new props.

[QUOTE=Magypsy;52303279]Since Valve promised to release the jungle map assets before the update arrived, implying that they would want to accept a themed map for the Jungle/Pyro update, and they would need to give map makers time to do an art pass, it's safe to assume that the update itself is still a long way away, right?[/QUOTE] They said they'll "try" to do that. Knowing Valve they might aswell bean it. I continue to believe we can expect the Blog Post and Props in the next 14 days.

[QUOTE=Contra132;52302465]cloaked spies do show blood particles[/QUOTE] [I]damn you germany you piece of crap[/I]

[QUOTE=Magypsy;52303279]Since Valve promised to release the jungle map assets before the update arrived, implying that they would want to accept a themed map for the Jungle/Pyro update, and they would need to give map makers time to do an art pass, it's safe to assume that the update itself is still a long way away, right?[/QUOTE] Considering its not July right now is enough to assume that the update is a long way away.

[QUOTE=Contra132;52302465] I mean, you can disagree with me if you want, but I'm pretty sure I know more about what counters my class at a high level than you do. [/QUOTE] Any time you think of writing a sentence like this again, please think it through, and reconsider.

[QUOTE=Tinker;52303915]Any time you think of writing a sentence like this again, please think it through, and reconsider.[/QUOTE] Am I wrong? Because I don't see anything controversial about making a statement based on my own competitive experience with my main class. Especially not one that's generally agreed with by other Spies at and above my level I've spoken to. There are countermeasures for skilled Pyros as a Spy. Not so for skilled Heavies, who can lock down the area of the map they're in against Spies with impunity from the right positions. This applies especially to Product and other KOTH maps. If I know literally anything about this game, it's Spy. I've earned that much. It's incredibly insulting for people with a-fraction-to-none of my experience or skill with my class to dismiss me offhandedly around Spy topics without providing a real argument. A Good Heavy is a better counter for Spy than Pyro is. A Pyro can chase a Spy and cover a small area around him. A Heavy can lock down a larger portion of the map and shred a disguised Spy at a distance, preventing his play, killing him or both. These points are supported by my literal years experience playing Spy competitively, and other, better Spies I've consulted in those years.

it should be fairly important to mention you're talking about regular cloak and not deadringer.

I think we're going to go another week without the TF2 team answering the VNN interview questions. :cry:

[QUOTE=Contra132;52304038]There are countermeasures for skilled Pyros as a Spy.[/QUOTE] There shouldn't be. Just like a bombing soldier is likely to wipe out a sniper unless the sniper can headshot a jumping soldier, a pyro should wipe out a spy unless the spy has remarkable revolver aim. Cloak shouldn't save him because of fire, and DR shouldn't have a spycicle effect that gets rid of fire while the spy is moving as fast as a scout.

-snip-

The Email wouldve been answered weeks ago if VNN would've asked Jill about Xcode

[QUOTE=Contra132;52304038] A Heavy can lock down a larger portion of the map and shred a disguised Spy at a [B]distance[/B][/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/77p8pEJ.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Contra132;52304038] If I know literally anything about this game, it's Spy. I've earned that much. It's incredibly insulting for people with a-fraction-to-none of my experience or skill with my class to dismiss me offhandedly around Spy topics without providing a real argument. [/QUOTE] You don't know that. Look, we have a lot of people around here with very entrenched opinions around here. I know what Exor thinks about Heavy, what Johnny Joe thinks about Spy, what you think about the Spies' unlocks. That's not an issue, that's fine. But you're the only person here who constantly starts posts with, and never fails to mention, your competitive spy background and assumed higher knowledge of the class than anyone around here. Not only is that probably not true in itself (we're a forum of TF2 die-hards here, we stuck around forever, everyone here knows the game), but it's horrible self-glorifying and dismissal out of hand of everyone because hey, they [i]don't know as well as you[/i]. It also pretends there's some kind of higher level consensus about classes and unlocks at some unseen, too-hard-to-reach-for-Facepunch competitive level (there isn't). It's completely fine to argue on here about issues you feel strongly about, and not everyone will agree - but don't do it in such an incredibly dismissive way. It's masturbatory, fallacious, and insulting, and you do it way too often. Don't.

[QUOTE=Tinker;52304780]You don't know that. Look, we have a lot of people around here with very entrenched opinions around here. I know what Exor thinks about Heavy, what Johnny Joe thinks about Spy, what you think about the Spies' unlocks. That's not an issue, that's fine. But you're the only person here who constantly starts posts with, and never fails to mention, your competitive spy background and assumed higher knowledge of the class than anyone around here. Not only is that probably not true in itself (we're a forum of TF2 die-hards here, we stuck around forever, everyone here knows the game), but it's horrible self-glorifying and dismissal out of hand of everyone because hey, they [i]don't know as well as you[/i]. It also pretends there's some kind of higher level consensus about classes and unlocks at some unseen, too-hard-to-reach-for-Facepunch competitive level (there isn't). It's completely fine to argue on here about issues you feel strongly about, and not everyone will agree - but don't do it in such an incredibly dismissive way. It's masturbatory, fallacious, and insulting, and you do it way too often. Don't.[/QUOTE] I would argue that someone who does solely play a single class in a competitive setting does, in fact, know more about that class than most people who do not.

[QUOTE=geel9;52304823]I would argue that someone who does solely play a single class in a competitive setting does, in fact, know more about that class than most people who do not.[/QUOTE] It does not make opinions fact though, and I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of people here who have plenty of competitive experience as well. At competitive levels there's plenty of discussion about weapons and classes too, not that far removed from what happens here. It's not some kind of PhD in Spyology, and assuming (and appealing to) authority is bad.

As of about 30 minutes ago, there was another VAC wave Reddit post: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6ewgjk/lmaobox_is_now_detected_again/[/url] Someone mentioned something about nullcore getting VAC waved too, but no idea if that's actually true Edit: Doesn't look like nullcore was detected, not confirmed though

[QUOTE=Koi_Pond;52304942]As of about 30 minutes ago, there was another VAC wave Reddit post: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6ewgjk/lmaobox_is_now_detected_again/[/url] Someone mentioned something about nullcore getting VAC waved too, but no idea if that's actually true Edit: Doesn't look like nullcore was detected, not confirmed though[/QUOTE] Who is this magical nullcore?

[QUOTE=Fluury;52305104]Who is this magical nullcore?[/QUOTE] Another popular cheat [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiD5UhUNnmw[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah8iX4xPb2k[/url]

[QUOTE=hahagoni_r;52300557]I have some worries concerning this update, here's one. Remember when they introduced texture streaming in [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/toughbreak/"]Tough Break[/URL] to fix "Out of memory" issues on Mac and Linux? (According to the page, Windows users already had that) [I](It also makes things like engineer blueprints look like crap and since you only see them for a short amount of time their quality won't improve, but that's beside the point)[/I] Weapon skins are also progressively loaded, but (in order to be less memory consuming I would assume), the stock skin will load first and the skin then renders after a brief moment. Currently, it's only a minor annoyance, but since [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1549175&p=51804577#post51804577"]non-stock skins are coming[/URL] I figure they'd all be rendered like that and that would look ridiculously bad. I honestly have no idea of an answer is here, you'd have to either sacrafise aesthetics or performance (maybe add an option to disable texture streaming?) Hopefully, Valve is going to prove me wrong on this. (Or am I just completely wrong? Correct me if so)[/QUOTE] This is actually (slightly) different from the streaming of normal textures. For normal texture streaming, which is for memory/GPU-resource-usage reasons, low-mipmaps of textures are pre-loaded, and their higher mipmaps are streamed in when they are needed. The game interpolates the newly-loaded mipmaps in somewhat slowly to not draw attention to resources popping in -- this works well for e.g. level textures that might be slightly-too-low-res-for-your-settings as you approach, but falls down when such a texture is suddenly directly in front of your face, like the engineer blueprints. The solution to those is to have better hinting -- when you are playing engineer, for instance, hint the texture system that the blueprint textures may be used soon. For skins, the exact skin is unique per gun. Wear, blood spatter, stickers, etc, can be slightly different from gun-to-gun, so what is actually happening is the texture is being generated in the background for your specific gun. Again, hinting to the system that a gun might become visible soon earlier would reduce the cases where it has to be rendered un-skinned.

Good going guys We wasted our Jill post on skin texture streaming

[QUOTE=Contra132;52304038]Am I wrong? Because I don't see anything controversial about making a statement based on my own competitive experience with my main class. Especially not one that's generally agreed with by other Spies at and above my level I've spoken to. There are countermeasures for skilled Pyros as a Spy. Not so for skilled Heavies, who can lock down the area of the map they're in against Spies with impunity from the right positions. This applies especially to Product and other KOTH maps. If I know literally anything about this game, it's Spy. I've earned that much. It's incredibly insulting for people with a-fraction-to-none of my experience or skill with my class to dismiss me offhandedly around Spy topics without providing a real argument. A Good Heavy is a better counter for Spy than Pyro is. A Pyro can chase a Spy and cover a small area around him. A Heavy can lock down a larger portion of the map and shred a disguised Spy at a distance, preventing his play, killing him or both. These points are supported by my literal years experience playing Spy competitively, and other, better Spies I've consulted in those years.[/QUOTE] Again, Heavy's ability to deter may be superlative, but he isn't very effective at actually killing DR Spies.

[QUOTE=geel9;52305277]Good going guys We wasted our Jill post on skin texture streaming[/QUOTE] See you all in 7 months or so

[QUOTE=geel9;52305277]Good going guys We wasted our Jill post on skin texture streaming[/QUOTE] Better than the word "neato"

[QUOTE=Blackavar;52305295]Better than the word "neato"[/QUOTE] But not as good as a blogpost

[QUOTE=Koi_Pond;52304942]As of about 30 minutes ago, there was another VAC wave Reddit post: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6ewgjk/lmaobox_is_now_detected_again/[/url] Someone mentioned something about nullcore getting VAC waved too, but no idea if that's actually true Edit: Doesn't look like nullcore was detected, not confirmed though[/QUOTE] [T]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/300025028630675457/320294323491176448/unknown.png[/T]

[QUOTE=Hell-met;52304631]it should be fairly important to mention you're talking about regular cloak and not deadringer.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lord Exor;52305282]Again, Heavy's ability to deter may be superlative, but he isn't very effective at actually killing DR Spies.[/QUOTE] Literally didn't mention cloak once in the post you're replying to, and the choice of cloak has almost nothing to do with the truth of my statement. A vigilant Heavy will effectively prevent the Spy from successfully picking off players who are within his area of influence, himself included. Invis Watch means that the Spy may attempt to cloak away, but will likely be tracked down with the minigun/combined minigun fire before he has escaped. The Dead Ringer in the same situation isn't a guarantee of survival, either, since a good half of the team just got alerted to the Spy's presence and failed pick, but it does raise the chance of the Spy leaving to try again...at which point the same thing will happen if the Heavy is not dealt with in some way. Can a Heavy chase cloaked Spies? No. But that's not relevant to my statement. By 'shut down', I mean prevent the Spy from being able to do accomplish his intended goal, making picks on important targets. If the Sniper is playing with the combo, as he often is in Highlander and high-level play in general, the Heavy effectively protects all of the most important players from the Spy's influence. Please. That has got to make sense. I cannot possibly explain this in any more detail than I already have. [QUOTE=Blackavar;52304699]There shouldn't be. Just like a bombing soldier is likely to wipe out a sniper unless the sniper can headshot a jumping soldier, a pyro should wipe out a spy unless the spy has remarkable revolver aim. Cloak shouldn't save him because of fire, and DR shouldn't have a spycicle effect that gets rid of fire while the spy is moving as fast as a scout.[/QUOTE] Weird how I didn't specify what I meant by countermeasures, and you jumped to the conclusion that I meant the Dead Ringer. Which I don't, not really, not against good players and a coordinated team. You both need to stop putting words in my mouth where I haven't said them. It's pretty annoying. [QUOTE=Johnny Joe;52304776][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/77p8pEJ.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] Yeah, that wouldn't work. A decent Medic is usually keeping his combo and his Sniper topped-off with overheal, and even if he isn't the Ambassador cannot burst down the Heavy fast enough to secure the kill before he gets to cover unless the Heavy is already hurt. Unless my Ambassador suddenly gained the ability to deal 450 burst damage, this argument is irrelevant, especially in high-level play. Next. [QUOTE=Tinker;52304780]But you're the only person here who constantly starts posts with, and never fails to mention, your competitive spy background and assumed higher knowledge of the class than anyone around here. Not only is that probably not true in itself (we're a forum of TF2 die-hards here, we stuck around forever, everyone here knows the game),[/QUOTE] This is the only thing about your post that I'm really going to argue with. I do know more about Spy than you do. Unless I see one of you playing at or above my level with my level of experience, I do know more than you do. I know more about what counters Spy. I know more about the thinking required to play him against coordinated teams, which you cannot develop in a pub setting. Period. Now, you can argue with me about these things, and I may be willing to concede some ground on some Spy-related topics, because general game knowledge is just as important and can sometimes paint things in a different light. For instance, as someone playing against the Natascha, I hate its fucking guts. I thought it was stupid and overpowered, but Exor pretty eloquently explained to me why it wasn't and I tried it out and realized he was right. It's annoying, not OP. My mistake. Now, you can argue that Pyro is a better counter to Spy than Heavy. If your definition of counter is JUST chasing, yes, but by that same logic Scout is the better counter. (He is, too, come to think about it...) But for overall influence on how a Spy plays, a hypervigilant Heavy is sooooo much worse to deal with than even the best Pyro, because the Pyro is limited in his ability to stop me by like five feet in front of him. The Heavy is not. The Heavy can prevent me from making the picks I need to make, rendering me useless. [quote]but it's horrible self-glorifying and dismissal out of hand of everyone because hey, they [I]don't know as well as you[/I]. It also pretends there's some kind of higher level consensus about classes and unlocks at some unseen, too-hard-to-reach-for-Facepunch competitive level (there isn't). It's completely fine to argue on here about issues you feel strongly about, and not everyone will agree - but don't do it in such an incredibly dismissive way. It's masturbatory, fallacious, and insulting, and you do it way too often. Don't.[/quote] Mild disagreement- almost none of the opinions expressed on FP seem to line up with either the 6s or HL communities ideas of balance. And aside from a precious few of you, most of you don't seem to be competitive players. Perhaps I'm biased, but I consider organized and coordinated play to be a better authority on game balance than the current, chaotic state of pub play. As far as Spy goes, yeah. I think I'm the most knowledgeable about Spy here, because i've put the most time and work into him in a stressful, difficult setting. But I'm certainly not some Spy god- there's plenty of people who are better than me at this class, and I've never tried to pretend otherwise. But those people are not here. I'm pretty sure I'm the only fucking Spy Main on these forums right now, except maybe that one guy with a Spy avatar. I forget who. All of that being said...you have a fair point. It's not an attempt on my end to come off as condescending. I refer to my experience because I believe it grants my opinions weight, and experience usually does that. When my opinions are repeatedly dismissed, with not even a portion of the effort that I put forth to express them, I'm insulted and feel the need to re-emphasize that if nothing else, my opinions about Spy should be taken seriously. Because I know more about playing it than any of you do. Putting the hours and seasons of competitive play I have into Spy, that should be the case for any player that isn't a Spy main who outranks me. [QUOTE=Tinker;52304842]It does not make opinions fact though, and I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of people here who have plenty of competitive experience as well. At competitive levels there's plenty of discussion about weapons and classes too, not that far removed from what happens here. It's not some kind of PhD in Spyology, and assuming (and appealing to) authority is bad.[/QUOTE] Re-iterating that only a few of you seem to be competitive players, and that the competitive community, of which I am an active part, shares little to no of the opinions expressed about balance here. The only other competitive players here that I can list off the top of my head are Bleghfarec, Blades and Rhike. Obviously, my opinions aren't fact. But my opinions also line up with other, better Spies that I've interacted with. The consensus among high-level Spies, as far as I can tell, indicates that Heavy is the better counter to Spy than Pyro, because he prevents him from accomplishing his desired goal almost entirely. No opinions are fact, but informed opinions have more weight than uninformed opinions. The scale of informed opinions also isn't a binary state, and years upon years of experience with Spy at a high level of coordinated play grants those opinions more weight than the perspective of someone who plays little-to-no-Spy or doesn't play competitively at all. I don't feel like that's a horribly arrogant thing to say. Experience and skill lends weight to the opinions of the people who have it, and until a Plat Spy Main pops here in Facepunch to contradict me, my Spy opinions have the most weight here under that logic. I will attempt to come off as less...arrogant, or condescending, or whatever you think I am. But in return, I want actual debate with what I have to say, not offhanded dismissals or disingenious statements responding to parts of my statements that were neither stated or implied. I think that's a fair trade. also hi jill im doing it again

[IMG]http://puu.sh/w93Pn/5176dd5190.png[/IMG] Not even the TF2 Developers are safe from Source 2 memes (That Server has a lot of Valve Devs on it alongside of Content Creators for TF2 that have self mades and/or Saxxies - coincidence? 🤔 )

[QUOTE=Fluury;52305522](That Server has a lot of Valve Devs on it alongside of Content Creators for TF2 that have self mades and/or Saxxies - coincidence? 🤔 )[/QUOTE] [B]I think not.[/B] Though in all seriousness, do you think this may be a maptest in disguise? Cause I'm pretty sure that maps have been tested before disguised as different maps in the server browser. (Didn't that happen with Snowplow?)

[QUOTE=Contra132;52305541][B]I think not.[/B] Though in all seriousness, do you think this may be a maptest in disguise? Cause I'm pretty sure that maps have been tested before disguised as different maps in the server browser. (Didn't that happen with Snowplow?)[/QUOTE] Yo... [IMG]http://puu.sh/w94P7/edbfbe957e.png[/IMG] This is not a common Valve Server, normally when you try to join it will just launch TF2 and then say Ad-hoc aint allowed, however this one asks for a Password. This is an organized special Valve Server where they are doing, well, something, and the content creators got invited to it. So either they are doing something special like secret maptesting or whatever, or they are just playing - thundermountain. The thought of Valve Devs and Content Creators secretly meeting in a special, set up Valve Server just to play thundermountain amuses me.