Final Major Update Speculation V37 - This is the last MUS thread. Speculate in General Chat. - Games

[QUOTE=Nebrassy;52356045]as I keep saying over and over, the stock shotgun is the ultimate best secondary weapon for Pyro, if 2 pyros are facing each other, the one with the shotgun wins, if it's RS vs shotgun, the shotgun Pyro can just stay out of airblast range and have the advantage keep in mind, airblast + shotgun is a really effective strategy, and actually many people argue that it's better and more reliable than using the RS[/QUOTE] I understand that completely, although I'd argue that the level design and how tight area's are can greatly put it into the reserve shooters favor over the stock shotties. Not to mention that if a lots going on around you giving up that extra bullet might not have been a good choice as well.

Unrelated to discussion, or this thread at all, question incoming: since this is p much the most populated threads in the section atm, and I can't find an answer anywhere, is there a FP TF2 Discord? I sometimes want to do some MvM and was wondering if anyone here also would like to spontaneously join, but I don't know if a FP TF2 Discord or anything of sorts has been made to randomly group up for something. Off-topic over, sorry guys.

[QUOTE=hahagoni_r;52354824][B]1. [/B]So HiGPS has basically just uploaded a video reiterating what was already posted to his Steam group, but now we know for sure that Valve does know about his [URL="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10vqucUk3dVbNOo_vNG36Vr5UqNXCxaGhtaWM_9dVwyI/edit#gid=457538217"]balance spreadsheet[/URL] (you can comment on stuff to express your thoughts, by the way) [B]2.[/B] Turns out the [URL="https://github.com/SteamDatabase/GameTracking-TF2/blob/8a7a5bc4011e094b9d24153813f6b10004be8e2f/tf/tf2_misc_dir/scripts/items/custom_texture_blend_layers/paper_overlay.png"]paper overlay PNG[/URL] is just the overlay on the [URL="https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/82504941786289875/AB5D67EEC4B3ED79662BDE0988DCEA5BF2F1522D/"]Conscientious Objector[/URL] (it took me this long because I couldn't find it in my game's files, found it out while browsing old r/tf2 threads)[/QUOTE] The person who had a picture up on their screen and tabbed over to something saying "Top Secret" sounds like Jill.

[QUOTE=RocketRacer;52356094]Unrelated to discussion, or this thread at all, question incoming: since this is p much the most populated threads in the section atm, and I can't find an answer anywhere, is there a FP TF2 Discord? I sometimes want to do some MvM and was wondering if anyone here also would like to spontaneously join, but I don't know if a FP TF2 Discord or anything of sorts has been made to randomly group up for something. Off-topic over, sorry guys.[/QUOTE] I recently asked similar question in general thread but didn't get an answer so i think there is no fp discord. I'm pretty sure there was one but apparently it's dead now...

Have you ever had TF2 related dreams? I did the other night after a highlander match and reading through the previous MUS. It was some mashup of the comic about god's secret base (heaven) and the upcoming pyro update, where god convinced me something was going to happen on the 19th of July. I need to stop reading speculation before bed.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52356124]Have you ever had TF2 related dreams? I did the other night after a highlander match and reading through the previous MUS. It was some mashup of the comic about god's secret base (heaven) and the upcoming pyro update, where god convinced me something was going to happen on the 19th of July. I need to stop reading speculation before bed.[/QUOTE] I know people usually don't control their dreams, but every time i see "tf2 dreams" post i can't help but cringe. I just can't believe you are being serious...

[QUOTE=Fluury;52355071][IMG]https://files.catbox.moe/6ljn2x.png[/IMG] How is the Steak Sandvich a "good" weapon :huh:[/QUOTE] i know this is a bit late, but im looking over that list and its bull shit, there are 1-2 things I disagree with in ever section, like the phlog liberty launcher and backscatter being bad, the liberty jut needs like a 10% damage boost and its easily on par, if not better than, stack. The plog is not bad, it just depends on the number of players on the opposing team, like its terrible in sixes but is great for a flanking way of playing in highlander. and the backscatter also just needs a small damage buff to be an amazing flank tool.

[QUOTE=kos8bit;52356137]I know people usually don't control their dreams, but every time i see "tf2 dreams" post i can't help but cringe. I just can't believe you are being serious...[/QUOTE] According to psychology, dreams are your mind's shitty dollar-theatre reruns of whatever was recently experienced, or might possibly be experienced, and your subconscious attempts to fill in the blanks in between. Cringeworthy?

[QUOTE=AD/HD;52356148]The plog is not bad, it just depends on the number of players on the opposing team, like its terrible in sixes but is great for a flanking way of playing in highlander.[/QUOTE] what fucking mandela universe are you living in where the phlog isn't absolute trash, effortlessly countered by the cunning strategy of "just run away"

[QUOTE=TWKUK;52356219]what fucking mandela universe are you living in where the phlog isn't absolute trash, effortlessly countered by the cunning strategy of "just run away"[/QUOTE] The sniper rifle is absolute trash, effortlessly countered by not getting shot. /s

My TF2 dreams have devolved into seeing an update page for TF2, not even playing it. Pretty soon I'll be dreaming about the update droughts as well.

[QUOTE=TWKUK;52356219]what fucking mandela universe are you living in where the phlog isn't absolute trash, effortlessly countered by the cunning strategy of "just run away"[/QUOTE] Because people who intelligently use it will pop mmph around a corner out of sight, then ambush you with crits. You can't exactly "just run away" from that. "Just running away" only works when the phlog user pops mmph in plain sight, which ends up getting the pyro killed approximately 100% of the time.

I had a dream I got 4 or 5 tf2 workshop item accept emails while I was on a fishing boat (I never do anything of the sort) but then I got a call from Eric where he said "haha oops we meant to delete those, not accept them" and I just put my phone in the water

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;52356238]My TF2 dreams have devolved into seeing an update page for TF2, not even playing it. Pretty soon I'll be dreaming about the update droughts as well.[/QUOTE] Why dream about update droughts when your currently living through one?

[QUOTE=DatHarry;52356254]I had a dream I got 4 or 5 tf2 workshop item accept emails while I was on a fishing boat (I never do anything of the sort) but then I got a call from Eric where he said "haha oops we meant to delete those, not accept them" and I just put my phone in the water[/QUOTE] After this i take my words about cringing back

[QUOTE=Nebrassy;52355677]according to him , the reserve shooter is the most overpowered weapon in the game, now I know many people consider the weapon overpowered, but how can someone think it's the most overpowered weapon when there are other weapons that actually make changes to the class and makes it OVERALL overpowered like the crit a cola and the DDS?[/QUOTE] Overpowered = no reason to use anything else in that slot. Pyro flares are shit. Regular shotgun is ok, but RS does the most damage and air-punching when combined with airblast, so there's no reason not to run it full time. That's what GPS goes by.

[QUOTE=kos8bit;52356137]I know people usually don't control their dreams, but every time i see "tf2 dreams" post i can't help but cringe. I just can't believe you are being serious...[/QUOTE] I know what you mean, but trust me. When you get so into something you can get dreams about it. I know some people who are so mad with OW they have dreams about it. I myself has had some dreams about games but they were super rare, maybe twice in my lifetime(that I remember ofc). [editline]14th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=kos8bit;52356122]I recently asked similar question in general thread but didn't get an answer so i think there is no fp discord. I'm pretty sure there was one but apparently it's dead now...[/QUOTE] Time to take the initiative then! I'll quickly slap something together. EDIT: [url]https://discord.gg/yjBBMhG[/url] - made a Discord server for TF2, hopefully we'll get some people in here.

[QUOTE=gigazelle;52356253]Because people who intelligently use it will pop mmph around a corner out of sight, then ambush you with crits. You can't exactly "just run away" from that. "Just running away" only works when the phlog user pops mmph in plain sight, which ends up getting the pyro killed approximately 100% of the time.[/QUOTE] The only time I generally get killed by a phlog pyro is when he's being regularly ubered by a medic at the same time. Other then that they're almost always a free kill in comparison to stock regardless of how good they are. Heavy can fully tank a phlog pyro utilizing crits and still kill him before he deals any real damage if he focuses him down. There's usually a lot of telltale signs too when a pyro is using a phlog. The most obvious is when they're playing it safe and using flares to build mmmph and when they never both to reflect anything. Then it's more or less just keep tabs on where the pyro has been spotted and general map awareness on the better ambushing spots to know where the pyro's going to attempt to ambush you. Lastly, good team communication will be the pyro's ultimate failure if the enemy team has it.

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;52356279]Overpowered = no reason to use anything else in that slot. Pyro flares are shit. Regular shotgun is ok, but RS does the most damage and air-punching when combined with airblast, so there's no reason not to run it full time. That's what GPS goes by.[/QUOTE] read my previous reply, that's really not the case, flares are less viable right, but they allow you to attack from range and still more reliable, shotgun is the best, it gives you great damage over time, and is just as good to airblast + shoot, the reserve shooter excels in very specific situations like getting an enemy cornered or being in a choke/closed off area (in both situation you're fucked facing a Pyro no matter what weapon he's using), but really, consider you airblasted an enemy and compare shotgun to RS, with shotgun you got a high damage shot, with RS you got 33% more damage of that shot, with shotgun you're left with 5 more shots and an enemy in your face, with RS you're left with 3 shots but you're probably not going to hit any of them due to the randomness of mini crits, sending your enemy flying, and even if you hit that shot, you'll deal less damage, practically speaking, that 33% damage increase rarely ever plays an important role, the shotgun is still the most reliable.

My favorite flaregun is the cowmangler

[QUOTE=TWKUK;52356219]what fucking mandela universe are you living in where the phlog isn't absolute trash, effortlessly countered by the cunning strategy of "just run away"[/QUOTE] A universe where you have to deal 175 burst damage in seconds, before critical W+M1 earned by scorch shot spam kills you for no reason.

I was going to bitch about HiGPS' terrible balance sheet myself, but I'm glad to see ya'll covered it for me. Thank you. In all seriousness, I really hope that the TF Team are looking at the competitive scene first for weapons to tweak. The universal whitelist, for instance, really narrows down basically all of the gamebreaking weapons. A few of the weapons on there only hurt the game in 6v6 (and are less of a problem in pubs, like the Air Strike), but I don't think it would hurt pubfun too much to dial back some of the crazier weapons in the game by a little bit. As for weapons and classes to buff, I'd hope they're looking at equip rate and other player statistics. Heavy is clearly in a terrible place right now, both in pubs and in 6s, so I hope they do some tweaking to make him a little more fun to play and a little less gamebreaking in small playercount formats (lookin' at you, GRU). And, as always, I'd love to see useless fucking weapons like the Your Eternal Reward get some loving reworks that make them more interesting and worth using. I understand I'm probably wearing a few of my biases on my shoulder at this point, but I really think most balancing decisions should be made around competitive play and what the best players are saying before anything else (and, no, I'm not referring to myself as among "the best players"- I'm certainly not). HiGPS' balance sheet just strikes me as "what pubbers find annoying, with some exceptions for bullshit we deem acceptable and pie-in-the-sky rework ideas that make no sense".

[QUOTE=TWKUK;52356219]what fucking mandela universe are you living in where the phlog isn't absolute trash, effortlessly countered by the cunning strategy of "just run away"[/QUOTE] Don't form delusional opinions on balance based solely around your personal experience fighting the weapon. Always look at the bigger picture. how many times will this weapon put players in a scenario where the victim feels like there was nothing they could do? Yes, the counter to phlog is keeping your distance. But in pubs, sometimes that isn't an option. This problem affects players of every skill level. Dying because a pyro turned the corner and scorched you before you could get a shot in is not fun for anybody.

[QUOTE=Contra132;52356438]I was going to bitch about HiGPS' terrible balance sheet myself, but I'm glad to see ya'll covered it for me. Thank you. In all seriousness, I really hope that the TF Team are looking at the competitive scene first for weapons to tweak. The universal whitelist, for instance, really narrows down basically all of the gamebreaking weapons. A few of the weapons on there only hurt the game in 6v6 (and are less of a problem in pubs, like the Air Strike), but I don't think it would hurt pubfun too much to dial back some of the crazier weapons in the game by a little bit. As for weapons and classes to buff, I'd hope they're looking at equip rate and other player statistics. Heavy is clearly in a terrible place right now, both in pubs and in 6s, so I hope they do some tweaking to make him a little more fun to play and a little less gamebreaking in small playercount formats (lookin' at you, GRU). And, as always, I'd love to see useless fucking weapons like the Your Eternal Reward get some loving reworks that make them more interesting and worth using. I understand I'm probably wearing a few of my biases on my shoulder at this point, but I really think most balancing decisions should be made around competitive play and what the best players are saying before anything else (and, no, I'm not referring to myself as among "the best players"- I'm certainly not). HiGPS' balance sheet just strikes me as "what pubbers find annoying, with some exceptions for bullshit we deem acceptable and pie-in-the-sky rework ideas that make no sense".[/QUOTE] main issues He lists tide turner, which at this point is just a stick jumper with a 12 second cooldown higher up then the liberty launcher, and enforcer which while somewhat weak dont completely gimp your ability to deal damage. also the enforcers not bad, it needs a rework because its concept is boring but it can 2 shot squishy classes with pretty much no downside. Liberty Launcher is a solid sidegrade and synergises well with the buff banner. He also says shotgun on heavy has the wrong stats but the family bussiness is fine and he lists the fists of Steel as overpowered but the gloves of running urgently are fine he also has some delusion that the short circuit is better then the wrangler. [editline]14th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Punchy;52356492]Don't form delusional opinions on balance based solely around your personal experience fighting the weapon. Always look at the bigger picture. how many times will this weapon put players in a scenario where the victim feels like there was nothing they could do[/QUOTE] take your own advice, ive never been killed by a phlog pyro and deemed it unfair because the phlog is only as good as the enemy team is bad. The only times pyros can phlog you before you can react is if he ambushes you, this means the pyro managed to get upclose without you noticing either through a successful flank or taking advantage of you being distracted, the pyro deserves the kill. if he doesnt ambush you and you see him coming you can shooting him down or retreat and wait out his crits, since the phlog doesnt have airblast shooting him down is a stupidly easy option unless he has a pocket in which case I recommend retreating, this is how you should handle any pocketed class when you are on your own. Tf2 cant pretend its a competitive game if it continues to nerf already terrible weapons because the playerbase would rather have everything made easy for them rather then learn to counter it. I guarantee if valve never panic nerfed the phlog people wouldve shut up about it a long time ago because people would have finally learned to walk away from shiny taunt pyro, and shoot him from outside his range. If valve wants to push tf2 in a competitive direction they need to balance with decent player in mind, and any decent player should not have ever had a problem shitting on phlog pyros.

Wait so how is the air strike broken? Yeah you can roam way faster and bombing medics is fun but your at a severe disadvantage against any other combat class due to the reduced damage and clip. Due to your crazy speed you'll likely end up half dead on the point alone with 6 angry mercenaries gunning for you. Its very shock and awe-y but it sucks if the enemy team puts up a fight.

[QUOTE=kos8bit;52356137]I know people usually don't control their dreams, but every time i see "tf2 dreams" post i can't help but cringe. I just can't believe you are being serious...[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=C. Blades;52356165]According to psychology, dreams are your mind's shitty dollar-theatre reruns of whatever was recently experienced, or might possibly be experienced, and your subconscious attempts to fill in the blanks in between.[/QUOTE] I've reported a few tf2-related dreams in this thread as well, and I really don't see the problem. If you're thinking a lot about something that's important to you- say, by frequenting MUS and debating your game-related opinions- then of course it's going to pop up in your dreams occasionally. Me, my hype just keeps translating to information about the update being released/the update itself being released in my dreams. it doesn't even manifest as me playing it or knowing what the info is, just a general buzz of excitement that after a year of waiting, we finally have another meaningful major update. It's certainly silly, but it's also harmless, imo. [editline]13th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Shirt.;52356566]Wait so how is the air strike broken? Yeah [B]you can roam way faster and bombing medics is fun[/B] but your at a severe disadvantage against any other combat class due to the reduced damage and clip. Due to your crazy speed you'll likely end up half dead on the point alone with 6 angry mercenaries gunning for you. Its very shock and awe-y but it sucks if the enemy team puts up a fight.[/QUOTE] that's one soldier's entire job in 6s, and making roamer more effective makes it MUCH harder to protect the medic from attackers also once you rack up the kills, you still have low dmg rockets on the ground but you're hardly defenseless, either. as far as I know, that's the logic behind it being banned in 6s.

[QUOTE=Contra132;52356574] [editline]13th June 2017[/editline] that's one soldier's entire job in 6s, and making roamer more effective makes it MUCH harder to protect the medic from attackers also once you rack up the kills, you still have low dmg rockets on the ground but you're hardly defenseless, either. as far as I know, that's the logic behind it being banned in 6s.[/QUOTE] The only time your going to have 8 rockets is when you won or if you need to break a stalemate. The medic argument can be solved by the guard dog switching to more AA effective classes but I'll put that specific argument on layaway.

I really started thinking how harder will it get for valve to make good balances after reading HiGPS's spreadsheet.

I love that this goober thinks the degreaser is """balanced""" when it objectivly overshadows all of the other flamethrowers. Also, his whole thing about "only pyro should set things on fire!" is kind of stupid, especially his ideas on """replacments""" for fire.

GC is down at 12:38 est. Also a bunch of weird tags and changes to valve server settings right before the fall. TONIGHTS THE NIGHT