Final Major Update Speculation V37 - This is the last MUS thread. Speculate in General Chat. - Games

Well the keyword here is gives. If you overheal someone up to 50% above their max health that means they [I]gain overheal[/I] of a value equal to whatever was described, in this case one equal to 50% of whatever their base health is, added to whatever they had. I'm still scratching my head on how someone would lose health but, okay, semantics, doesn't matter very much.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52384936]Again, just because Valve was too inept or negligent to address something that's been problematic since day one does not mean it shouldn't be done now. As the old adage says, better late than never! And if you truly are a veteran, then perhaps it's time to finally hone some Scout skills so you no longer have to rely on infuriating stun mechanics to secure kills. I wouldn't hesitate to embrace any core changes to the functionality of the Natascha (slow) if it meant hoisting it into relevance.[/QUOTE] Where are you getting the "I am the bad @ scout" from? All I've been saying is that it went from "fun dumb weapon" to "why use this" for the last few posts I've been talking about it.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52384942]Well the keyword here is gives. If you overheal someone up to 50% of their max health that means they [I]get overheal[/I] of a value equal to whatever described, in this case one equal to 50 of whatever their base health is, added to whatever they had. I'm still scratching my head on how someone would lose health but, okay, semantics.[/QUOTE] Well that's where the confusion started then, your initial post was wrong to begin with. Standard overheal is 50% of someone's MaxHP, your post said it was 150% which is 3x the standard amount. EDIT: And so now if we do the minus 100% thing again we're left with -50%, so it's pretty clear the attribute just means 'no overheal'.

[QUOTE=Stroheim;52384951]Where are you getting the "I am the bad @ scout" from? All I've been saying is that it went from "fun dumb weapon" to "why use this" for the last few posts I've been talking about it.[/QUOTE] It was never fun, that's the problem. Maybe it's pleasurable for the sadistic, callous user, but not for the victim. That isn't particularly hard to understand, right? Again, removing the player's ability to influence his fate is poor game design. It makes me roll my eyes every time I see someone attempt to defend the indefensible because "RANDUMB FUN YUK YUK!"

[QUOTE=Stroheim;52384921]Dude we've been playing for the same amount of time. I know what balance changes your talking about, but none of them have taken out a straight up taken out a major mechanic that's been in the game for the almost the last TEN YEARS.[/QUOTE] I'll make this abundantly clear: stunlocks are only acceptable in games designed around them. Fighting games, for example, have a core tenant in that hitstun prevents the opponent from acting (either counterattack, tech throws, or block). This is offset by how much health both players have to work with, which means that it will take a long time for a series of hits to be lethal, many combos of which have finite ends and release the victim back into neutral where the two players are back at 100% agency over their character. This is not the case in a game as lethal as TF2. Most weapons can kill in 2 or 3 swift hits. This entire ordeal happens in the span of under a second. Stuns of any sort have no place in a game where you'll die almost immediately if you get snared. Stuns aren't a major mechanic, which is why their existence is such a blight. If anything, they are an intrusive mechanic that should stay in genres designed around them at their core. To fuck with tradition, it doesn't take an amateur game designer to realize that stun isn't for TF2 and does not deserve to stay just because they made a mistake over a decade ago.

Just realised something. Big earner gives you cloak on kill. This means that it could be paired with DR, possibly. A very useful combo as I see it.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;52384970]I'll make this abundantly clear: stunlocks are only acceptable in games designed around them. Fighting games, for example, have a core tenant in that hitstun prevents the opponent from acting (either counterattack, tech throws, or block). This is offset by how much health both players have to work with, which means that it will take a long time for a series of hits to be lethal, many combos of which have finite ends and release the victim back into neutral where the two players are back at 100% agency over their character. This is not the case in a game as lethal as TF2. Most weapons can kill in 2 or 3 swift hits. This entire ordeal happens in the span of under a second. Stuns of any sort have no place in a game where you'll die almost immediately if you get snared. Stuns aren't a major mechanic, which is why their existence is such a blight. If anything, they are an intrusive mechanic that should stay in genres designed around them at their core. To fuck with tradition, it doesn't take an amateur game designer to realize that stun isn't for TF2 and does not deserve to stay just because they made a mistake over a decade ago.[/QUOTE] Then why even keep other near similar stunlock mechanics then (IE: Airblast, Natasha, [sp]ghosts?[/sp])? I've seen more people complain about getting stunlocked into a position in the air by pyros than I've seen people complain about the Sandman.

Something tells me that we're going to hear a lot about the sandman in the upcoming days.

Alright guys, it's go time. The update always releases whenever I'm at work. So that means tomorrow's a good chance of getting the update, or friday, or Satuday, I dunno it just always drops when I'm at work and can't view the details.

The new Sandman is essentially tantamount to the Natascha, and airblast doesn't rescind your ability to retaliate either. At any rate, upcoming changes to airblast in this update aren't off the table.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52384999]The new Sandman is essentially tantamount to the Natascha, and airblast doesn't rescind your ability to retaliate either. At any rate, upcoming changes to airblast in this update aren't off the table.[/QUOTE] The new sandman being like the Natasha is like saying the new Shortstop is like the force a nature. They are almost completely different in terms of how you might use them, and how the slow scaling scaling would work. I mean for starters one of them is a weapon that shoots out multiple bullets per ammo while one is a ball that has to be recharged.

You're missing the point. Airblast and slow both afford the victim the capacity to alter the course of the encounter by shooting back; if you're stunned by a Sandman ball, you're essentially helpless. Which one of those sounds more appetizing to you?

For the GRU and Eviction Notice I wonder if there's a cap on how much health can be removed? Can you get down to just 5 or 10 health depending on which one you have? Can you keep it out long enough to set you max health to 0 and kill yourself? Also how long does it take for the health to return? The same amount of time it took to drain or does it work like self healing items like the conch?

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52385127]For the GRU and Eviction Notice I wonder if there's a cap on how much health can be removed? Can you get down to just 5 or 10 health depending on which one you have? Can you keep it out long enough to set you max health to 0 and kill yourself? Also how long does it take for the health to return? The same amount of time it took to drain or does it work like self healing items like the conch?[/QUOTE] I think its going to be like when you are drowning, and then you come out of the water to recover all your health back.

Probably been mentioned in the past pages, but I only briefly skimmed over them - is it just me or are the Bonk! changes really unneeded and sound like a massive nerf on paper? Like, even a 25% slow after tanking minor damage greatly hinders the Scout after pushing through, -65% speed after tanking a bunch of Sentry fire or going through a sticky trap basically leaves the Scout as good as dead after the effect runs out. I haven't really seen anyone complain about it being too strong or brainless in recent years, and it's worked well as a situational Uber-lite for when your team lacks a proper Uber or there's 9001 Sentries or explosive spam around every corner (an environment in which a Pistol Scout can do fuck-all in crowded pubs). This is esentially returning to the very first iteration of the item from 2009, which proved to have way too harsh a downside and resulted in poor use until they removed the speed penalty.

[QUOTE=Chicken McFly;52385142]I think its going to be like when you are drowning, and then you come out of the water to recover all your health back.[/QUOTE] That would really defeat the purpose of changing those weapons if you got all of your max health back right away.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52385182]That would really defeat the purpose of changing those weapons if you got all of your max health back right away.[/QUOTE] Coming out of water regenerates health slowly, not instantly.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52385182]That would really defeat the purpose of changing those weapons if you got all of your max health back right away.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but you know how they like to reuse code. I would not be surprised if they just copypasted the drowning mechanics.

[QUOTE=Chicken McFly;52385205]Yeah, but you know how they like to reuse code. I would not be surprised if they just copypasted the drowning mechanics.[/QUOTE] They can't. Drowning doesn't reduce max health.

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;52385213]They can't. Drowning doesn't reduce max health.[/QUOTE] Is there any other weapon that reduces max health over time? Not permanent, like, the kunai for example. For what I know this may be the first one. So yeah, its kinda odd and we can just speculate.

So here is my response to the TF Team about the blog, in case anyone cares: [url]https://pastebin.com/96smfBDV[/url] It is a rather long read, so maybe get some coffee and candy if you plan on going through it.

[QUOTE=Different;52385199]Coming out of water regenerates health slowly, not instantly.[/QUOTE] Shows you how often I go underwater in TF2. ;)

[QUOTE=Serge Ivanov;52384984]Alright guys, it's go time. The update always releases whenever I'm at work. So that means tomorrow's a good chance of getting the update, or friday, or Satuday, I dunno it just always drops when I'm at work and can't view the details.[/QUOTE] Wait wait wait. I already stated before updates come out when I am away from my comp. Are you at work on the 1st of July (A saturday)? If so, it would be then since we will both be away from our computers.

The major summer update has come out while I'm away for vacation every year for the past 3 years. Why stop now? I'll be gone from June 30th to July 5th this year, so that's when I'm expecting it to drop this year lol.

[QUOTE=Paradox_cg;52385246]Wait wait wait. I already stated before updates come out when I am away from my comp. Are you at work on the 1st of July (A saturday)? If so, it would be then since we will both be away from our computers.[/QUOTE] I got an exam on the 1st

I liked almost all of the changes but there is one that made me scratch my head. The YER change. I still doubt people will use it because you can still nearly instantly change disguises by just using the disguise kit if you're already disguised.

[QUOTE=CoolJosh3k;52385237]So here is my response to the TF Team about the blog, in case anyone cares: [url]https://pastebin.com/96smfBDV[/url] It is a rather long read, so maybe get some coffee and candy if you plan on going through it.[/QUOTE] Nah, the crit combo isn't very fun.

[QUOTE=lateguy;52385293]I liked almost all of the changes but there is one that made me scratch my head. The YER change. I still doubt people will use it because you can still nearly instantly change disguises by just using the disguise kit if you're already disguised.[/QUOTE] Maybe that's correct in 6s. But i think it will be much more useful in pubs and highlander. and just a side note: 0.5 sec disguise time is no where near instant inside a game like TF2.

[QUOTE=Different;52385332]Maybe that's correct in 6s. But i think it will be much more useful in pubs and highlander. and just a side note: 0.5 sec disguise time is no where near instant inside a game like TF2.[/QUOTE] Still, using the disguise kit can be done while cloaking and takes no risk to do. Only thing i can imagine YER being useful for is chain-stabs.

These are actually pretty amazing buffs and nerfs and the new Vita-Saw certainly seems interesting. Who knows, maybe I'll actually enjoy playing TF2 again without having to worry about a plat spy main feigning death every time without fail due to my bad teammates constantly dying and giving him free ammo.