Final Major Update Speculation V37 - This is the last MUS thread. Speculate in General Chat. - Games

[QUOTE=Fluury;52396877]Instead of changing the Vita-Saw how about nerfing the Ubersaw, 25% was and still is too powerful and shouldnt be a thing. Make it 15% or something.[/QUOTE] the prospect of a medic going melee mode is enough of a balancer. A medic with bonesaw is much less likely to put himself in such danger. all it could use is no random crits for more hits

[QUOTE=quake84;52396529]I know source games are cpu based but that processor isn't really a big deal either, given people have 4c/8t i7s and struggle, while mine is iirc 2c/4t and half the frequency, so it has "a quarter of the power"[/QUOTE] Anything over 4 cores is next to useless in source games, and games in general. Source games also benefit from higher clock speed rather than higher core count, also much more than other games do, the third and 4th core are also barely used

Make Uber on hit a default stat for Medic melees, then tune the numbers for each unlock. Nothing is ever going to compete with the Ubersaw in its current state, but people like the risk/reward of the Ubersaw too much to warrant giving it the sizable nerf it would need to bring it in line.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52396877]Instead of changing the Vita-Saw how about nerfing the Ubersaw, 25% was and still is too powerful and shouldnt be a thing. Make it 15% or something.[/QUOTE] I personally believe that the Ubersaw should be 20% Uber on it, and then buff all of the current Medic melee weapons to compete. I don't understand why people say that the Ubersaw isn't overpowered when its downside is negligible and these same people use nothing but it.

Ubersaw is fine, but is definitely a pub stomper. Don't kill medic chaining pls

[QUOTE=Hell-met;52396919]the prospect of a medic going melee mode is enough of a balancer. A medic with bonesaw is much less likely to put himself in such danger. all it could use is no random crits for more hits[/QUOTE] What kind of dumb logic is that? Obviously a medic will not put himself at risk, because he has nothing to earn from doing it. Adding an upside to getting in risk is not balanced by the fact that it's a risk, because now you simply have the option of getting rewarded for being in danger, rather than just getting punished.

[QUOTE=RetroFan987;52396979] I don't understand why people say that the Ubersaw isn't overpowered when its downside is negligible and these same people use nothing but it.[/QUOTE] because when people aren't shit, a 150 hp class with basic movement that goes pointblank with enemies just instantly evaporates. ubersaw is an alltime favorite because it embodies the "risk reward" expression. it makes the class far more interesting. it's extremely similar to the crossbow in that aspect. the slower swing also does matter for 2shots. and before you strawmen me, I use bonesaw since this game was born

[QUOTE=LZoleee;52396497]Your graphics card really doesn't matter for TF2, or for earlier source games in general. Your cpu is decent enough, so probably that's one of the reasons it runs well for you. For example, on a fresh/empty windows 10, my rig with a amd fx-8350, 8gb ram, gtx960 fails to maintain 60 fps on a full casual server, without giving up on nice visuals. And I choose lower framerate over turning off antialiasing for instance, any time. And when you compare it to a bit more complex game, like gta 5 for example, which I can run with a good framerate on the highest graphics mostly, excluding the most unreasonable settings like multisampling and a few similar to that, that just leaves tf2 in the dust performance wise.[/QUOTE] If you aren't even willing to turn down the damn anti aliasing for better frames then idk why you're complaining, sounds like you don't really care about frame rate much anyway

[QUOTE=Hell-met;52397003]because when people aren't shit, a 150 hp class with basic movement that goes pointblank with enemies just instantly evaporates. ubersaw is an alltime favorite because it embodies the "risk reward" expression. it makes the class far more interesting. it's extremely similar to the crossbow in that aspect. the slower swing also does matter for 2shots. and before you strawmen me, I use bonesaw since this game was born[/QUOTE] I understand that is does embody risk-reward, although I see the reward way outweigh the risk. I believe it's because all of the other bonesaws need a buff, there is very little reason to not use the Ubersaw over them because none of them offer enough, except maybe the Amputator (Not including Vita-Saw due to not knowing how the changes will affect the game).

[QUOTE=kos8bit;52396895]It's not like nerfing Ubersaw instantly makes Vita-Saw less stupid. Vita-Saw changes are required anyway, so why not just go this route.[/QUOTE] I meant as in changing the *new* vita-saw.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;52396919]the prospect of a medic going melee mode is enough of a balancer. A medic with bonesaw is much less likely to put himself in such danger. all it could use is no random crits for more hits[/QUOTE] Ubersaw is one of the weapons where removal of random crits could actually make it more powerful. Since it means the medic might be able to get more hits in before the target is dead, securing more uber charge.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52396877]Instead of changing the Vita-Saw how about nerfing the Ubersaw, 25% was and still is too powerful and shouldnt be a thing. Make it 15% or something.[/QUOTE] Vita-saw's problem that Valve is addressing is not just its lack of power in pubs, they primarily want to nerf its power in comp. As it stands, if your enemy runs vita-saw, they're literally getting free uber advantage for no reason and you have no choice but to run vita-saw as well. Ubersaw is not that good in comp since melee is very rare in comp, besides you're risking all of your uber+heals to your whole team (i.e. completely compromising your team's ability to push) for as long as it takes you to respawn and get back into action - all just to gain a quarter of uber, something a couple of short seconds of healing would net you anyway. Pubs on the other hand are melee city, so tying vita-saws bonus to melee swings is going to make it more relevant there. It's a good change for both worlds. The values might need tweaking, but the idea is good.

[QUOTE=Stroheim;52395983]If they kill the heavy update for this update, you might kill a fuck ton of the remaining goodwill if the update manages to implode on themselves. Remember the "it's okay we don't get a event, matchmakings coming soon?" Posts? Also, if they did scrap the heavy update they would have broken a year log promise that heavy would FINALLY get new guns[/QUOTE] If the proposed balanced changes go through and Heavy no longer has to fire for a full second before reaching maximum damage and instead just has to be spun up for that time, ALL of his guns are going to feel new. We may see a return of one of the rarest beats in TF2: the roaming solo Heavy.

I wish there was a viable bonesaw option with a bonus that doesn't require hitting enemies, it would be nice to have more variety. Amputator is sort of almost there but the taunt sucks and the self healing isn't enough to be worth putting away your crossbow when you're out of position.

the vita saw is about to replace the ubersaw anyway. With the ubersaw you need to land a hit and then get enough to get 100% uber and then use it The vita saw just needs to land a melee in order to see any benefit. You can just die after that.

[QUOTE=Ultravod;52397204]If the proposed balanced changes go through and Heavy no longer has to fire for a full second before reaching maximum damage and instead just has to be spun up for that time, ALL of his guns are going to feel new. We may see a return of one of the rarest beats in TF2: the roaming solo Heavy.[/QUOTE] That's a really nice avatar you have there...

Roaming solo Heavy hasn't exactly been all that viable since the Sandvich nerf of 2012. We'll see.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52396693]Since some people actually expect it: [IMG]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/IMG] for next week is the week [IMG]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/cross.png[/IMG] for next week is not the week, you are stupid[/QUOTE] I think we will get part 2 of the proposed changes in a few days from now.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52396693]Since some people actually expect it: [IMG]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/IMG] for next week is the week [IMG]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/cross.png[/IMG] for next week is not the week, you are stupid[/QUOTE] i wouldn't expect anything until after july 5th, once the summer sale is over

Would amputator be overpowered or underpowered if it let you drain a bit of uber to use its effect while moving? You can still taunt and heal a group for free (and gain a bit of uber) but are still immobile. You could also right click to heal a group while moving but it drains either a set amount of uber for a few seconds of healing or drains as long as the button is pressed. It is an alternative to the medigun because it heals more people at once but doesn't give uber and doesn't overheal.

I've almost gotta wonder if the update keeps getting pushed back since there's so many items getting put on the workshop that they want in game.

[QUOTE=DatHarry;52396700]i'm hoping for the 29th ~ 2nd, but realistically probably the 7th ~ 12th[/QUOTE] Personally gonna guess another week later than this, as that allows for any map Workshop complications (map not compiling correctly, etc)

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;52396714] New Vita-Saw is straight garbage. You need 4 swings to get the maximum effect possible. 15% per hit for a total of 60% uber on respawn, provided you have 60% or more uber already built. You actually have to go out of your way to melee people to get the organs, which is just going to make you die more when you could've just kept healing or used the Ubersaw to get 100% before dying. It's really pointless.[/QUOTE] New Vita-Saw doesn't passively reward you for doing your job, it's meant to be an alternative to uber-saw. You either get 25% uber on demand when at melee range (ambushed by any class and they rushed into your melee range and you're alone, that kinda shit, last resort defense) or 15% on respawn provided you have this amount charged up. Previous vitasaw passively gave you uber which was ridiculous. In the "new" state, if you have less than 75% uber, vitasaw is superior to ubersaw because you're gonna die anyway, but for the one-two hits you managed to land you preserve uber on respawn, if you have 75% or more, ubersaw is better because, well, you don't die, you hit and instapop.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52397357]That's a really nice avatar you have there...[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/CRUNcNr.gif[/img] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Reaction image" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=quake84;52397531]New Vita-Saw doesn't passively reward you for doing your job, it's meant to be an alternative to uber-saw. You either get 25% uber on demand when at melee range (ambushed by any class and they rushed into your melee range and you're alone, that kinda shit, last resort defense) or 15% on respawn provided you have this amount charged up. Previous vitasaw passively gave you uber which was ridiculous. In the "new" state, if you have less than 75% uber, vitasaw is superior to ubersaw because you're gonna die anyway, but for the one-two hits you managed to land you preserve uber on respawn, if you have 75% or more, ubersaw is better because, well, you don't die, you hit and instapop.[/QUOTE] Vita-Saw does not grant instant 25% uber on hit, so no, it's not superior at any point. It still requires [b]dying[/b] to have any use.

Roaming solo heavy shouldnt be viable, atleast how he is right now. Give heavy an alternative playstyle focused on solo-roaming where he trades Attack-power for mobility and survivability instead of trying to make both solo heavy and heavy+medic a thing, because if you make solo heavy a thing, medic-heavy will be a monster.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52397779]Roaming solo heavy shouldnt be viable, atleast how he is right now. Give heavy an alternative playstyle focused on solo-roaming where he trades Attack-power for mobility and survivability instead of trying to make both solo heavy and heavy+medic a thing, because if you make solo heavy a thing, medic-heavy will be a monster.[/QUOTE] I fail to see how allowing Heavy to gain health from his own dropped Sandviches impacted the Heavy+Medic combo at all, given how he almost always saved the Sandvich for his Medic. Tossed Sandviches would only be picked up by Heavies in the event of an absent Medic.

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;52397763]Vita-Saw does not grant instant 25% uber on hit, so no, it's not superior at any point. It still requires [b]dying[/b] to have any use.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=quake84;52397531]vitasaw is superior to ubersaw because you're gonna die anyway[/QUOTE] You're both right. In casual, 25% instant uber is better because you're likely to get away with it, you can get even 4 swings in and pop no problem. In comp, you get in a melee situation, you have a very high chance of dying so you may as well go with the option that guarantees 15% uber on respawn rather than getting 25% uber and instantly losing it.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52397779]because if you make solo heavy a thing, medic-heavy will be a monster.[/QUOTE] Because the 3 main power classes (Scout, Soldier, Demo) totally don't also become monsters with a medic attached. Heavy, when using his primary, is SLOW, and can't really do anything while shooting. Even with a Medic, there are an amazing amount of vulnerabilities that come with not being able to move. Heavies being able to give themselves Sandviches doesn't change the fact that their movement is conducive to near-constant damage sponging, and 150 health doesn't mean much when you're tanking rockets and pipes at every corner. And with the new GRU, the ability to give himself a Sandvich wouldn't overcome the max-health drain that occurs while wearing them. In a 6s environment, if the Heavy is all that's left of the team, and he needs that health, he MIGHT be able to get 1 or 2 more kills if the enemy doesn't know how to cornerspam, where he would've died with the normal Sandvich. [editline]24th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Drury;52397837]You're both right. In casual, 25% instant uber is better because you're likely to get away with it, you can get even 4 swings in and pop no problem. In comp, you get in a melee situation, you have a very high chance of dying so you may as well go with the option that guarantees 15% uber on respawn rather than getting 25% uber and instantly losing it.[/QUOTE] Ubersaw is still viable in comp with the new Vita-Saw. It's just that the Vita-Saw makes more sense for the Medic to use. Since the Solemn Vow is currently banned in 6s, I hope it gets turned into an Escape Plan-esque weapon so the Medic has another viable item to use in the situation where the whole team is dead.

[QUOTE=Doodle966;52396842]It would be great of they could make it an option, that the game is more GPU dependent then CPU. I think many players have a better GPU than a CPU because modern games are more GPU dependent.[/QUOTE] As nice as something like that would be my guess is it would require a pretty major engine re-write. [editline]24th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Nebrassy;52396970]Anything over 4 cores is next to useless in source games, and games in general. Source games also benefit from higher clock speed rather than higher core count, also much more than other games do, the third and 4th core are also barely used[/QUOTE] Considering both the Xbox One and PS4 have 6 lower clocked cores I think we're going to see more and more newer games and game engines where more cores are more important than a few higher powered cores but we'll have to see.