Final Major Update Speculation V37 - This is the last MUS thread. Speculate in General Chat. - Games

Does anyone have any source as to how much FPS is saved by removing cosmetics? And how many FPS can be had with hats, but no unusuals? We might be discussing something completely not worthwhile, like 3 FPS. (imo rip blackavar's PC regardless)

I thought they made it so the Classic could shoot mid-air when the huntsman was updated. Apparently they didn't and I'm a fool. They should at least have that feature, I'm not saying they should add jumping to it or anything, but being able to shoot in the air with charge shot weapons is a must.

[QUOTE=Rhike;52398090]Does anyone have any source as to how much FPS is saved by removing cosmetics? And how many FPS can be had with hats, but no unusuals? We might be discussing something completely not worthwhile, like 3 FPS. (imo rip blackavar's PC regardless)[/QUOTE] I mean, in 6v6 environments on not-shitty maps I usually get around 60 fps, but there's no way for me to get 60 frames consistently in 12v12 games. Things I want that will never happen: better particle effect optimization extreme lod options for everything (think hl1, but without the mods that don't actually do anything) mapmakers to be better at optimization source games to use all cpu cores equally (this is likely the main issue for me, my hp laptop's cpu overheats often because hp is REALLY shitty about proper internal cooling)

[QUOTE=Rhike;52398090]Does anyone have any source as to how much FPS is saved by removing cosmetics? And how many FPS can be had with hats, but no unusuals? We might be discussing something completely not worthwhile, like 3 FPS. (imo rip blackavar's PC regardless)[/QUOTE] No source but I would say like 8% on a full server [QUOTE=LZoleee;52396497]Your graphics card really doesn't matter for TF2, or for earlier source games in general. Your cpu is decent enough, so probably that's one of the reasons it runs well for you. For example, on a fresh/empty windows 10, my rig with a amd fx-8350, 8gb ram, gtx960 fails to maintain 60 fps on a full casual server, without giving up on nice visuals. And I choose lower framerate over turning off antialiasing for instance, any time. And when you compare it to a bit more complex game, like gta 5 for example, which I can run with a good framerate on the highest graphics mostly, excluding the most unreasonable settings like multisampling and a few similar to that, that just leaves tf2 in the dust performance wise.[/QUOTE] You get low fps in TF2 because amd fx CPUs are notorious for their low single threaded performance. New games take advantage of more cores. Intel cpus (at the moment) are always better for source games. GPU also most definitely matters still, especially if you play with higher resolutions and max out textures.[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/fGAcQhf.png[/IMG] Larger number is avg fps, smaller is 97th percentile. 780ti is more than enough for source games, yet going overkill with a GPU (1080) still yields FPS improvements.

What's a realistic date for the update to drop? Next week?

[QUOTE=gjw22;52398234]What's a realistic date for the update to drop? Next week?[/QUOTE] At some point. We don't have any real idea. The only time window we got for when valve wanted to put out the blog post was "before". I would say the next 2-3 weeks would be reasonable, but we don't know.

[QUOTE=gjw22;52398234]What's a realistic date for the update to drop? Next week?[/QUOTE] Mid July [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1549175&p=52296463&viewfull=1#post52296463"]I'll just leave this here[/URL] Boxes? Why?

[QUOTE=Slip Nip;52398262]Mid July [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1549175&p=52296463&viewfull=1#post52296463"]I'll just leave this here[/URL] Boxes? Why?[/QUOTE] Because you're celebrating full speculation and being snide about it.

[QUOTE=DatHarry;52395542] fair enough, i'm not gonna argue facts, everyone knows that cosmetics make a significant dent. i dont really have any alternative suggestions for that even tho i stand by my position that valve wouldn't ever add a "hide cosmetics button". guess i lose this one. [/QUOTE] the fact that an evolving game that wants to be up to date and modern isnt obligated to keep running on almost 10-year outdated hardware is a start updating the steam page to change the minimum requirements would be a good solution to this "problem" [editline]24th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RetroFan987;52396979]I personally believe that the Ubersaw should be 20% Uber on it, and then buff all of the current Medic melee weapons to compete. I don't understand why people say that the Ubersaw isn't overpowered when its downside is negligible and these same people use nothing but it.[/QUOTE] make it so the amputator taunt is instead an arms animation that's interruptible and can be done while moving around that would be a HUGE kick into gear for that weapon, and if it's too strong just lower the health regen it offers [editline]24th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Snowshoe;52397763]Vita-Saw does not grant instant 25% uber on hit, so no, it's not superior at any point. It still requires [b]dying[/b] to have any use.[/QUOTE] it's a huge safety net though; if your medic gets picked by the enemy's sniper, scout, soldier, spy, or whatever else have you, he's still gonna wake up with a GREAT deal of uber retained assuming he took the risk to collect organs

[QUOTE=Oizen;52396916]The Ubersaw is slightly overpowerred. But the Vita Saw is just cancerous to the game. For 6s anyway.[/QUOTE] I'm curious if you mean the current Vita Saw or the new one that's in the blog post? Regardless though, I feel the Vita Saw isn't going to snuff out the Ubersaw if this version goes through. Mostly because the benefits of the Vita saw will only kick in if the patient knows he's going to die. In the long run, while it can be useful to run, I feel it'll just be too situational to warrant running it over the Ubersaw and because of that people will more likely just stick to it instead.

Was talking about the old one that said I'm fully convinced the new vita saw is going to remained banned in 6s.

[QUOTE=chandlerj333;52394878]I have a question about the huntsman, does the projectiles hitbox encompass the whole arrow or just its head? My point being that if it is the whole arrow, then there is a longer period of time for it to connect with a moving enemy. Also, I don't know much about arrows, but im pretty sure getting hit by the pointy bit is more likely to kill someone than the shaft.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ZombiPlastiClok;52394904]If memory serves, the hitbox is actually an area around the entire arrow and then some, similar to rockets. That's why it seems much easier to get headshots with the Huntsman, given that the hitbox is quite large compared to hitscan weapons.[/QUOTE] Actually it uses a fairly small axis-aligned bounding box (AABB, means it never rotates and is always aligned the same way relative to the map) positioned right at the tip of the model. What makes it easy to land arrows is the [I]player's[/I] AABB being so large, the AABB is also exactly the same for every class. I made a short video to demonstrate (watch in at least 720p and fullscreen, the boxes are quite small), also includes Grenades and the Bison/Pomson: [video=youtube;eI9iakXY7e4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI9iakXY7e4[/video] I didn't mark out where exactly the 'headshot zone' is because I don't think anyone has the exact values currently (maybe sigsegv knows). It's somewhere around the top 12.5-25% of the AABB I think, though it seems to be affected by some other factors too. Also, rockets don't seem to display their AABB when I try to enable them, but I think its probably safe to assume they're the same, presumably just like every other projectile in the game (minus flame particles, but they're a special case anyway).

[QUOTE=Oizen;52399130]Was talking about the old one that said I'm fully convinced the new vita saw is going to remained banned in 6s.[/QUOTE] I don't. Like I said in a previous post, medics using melee is extremely risking and should only be used when it is a last resort (in terms of comp). The "old" vita saw was op because the effect was passive. The new vita saw now requires the medic to be risky. Medics in comp should constantly be healing and this new vita saw will stop healing for a period of time that the medic chooses to invest in getting organs (Healing is just as important as uber). The "old" vita saw's effect was a passive and didn't influence the medic's duration of healing. This reasoning is for comp. Its a bit different in casual. Lets look at 6s for a second. The meta is 2 scouts, 2 soldier, 1 demo and 1 medic. These classes are chosen because of their high mobility and high damage. Maps are 5 cp and these classes can quickly position to adapt to attack and defending strategies. Medics will find it difficult to melee in order to get organs if they are vsing bombing soldiers and persistent scouts who would normally keep their distance.

Something B4nny emphasized a lot on his analysis was "timing". With the Crit-a-Cola he said "Scouts could reach mid too fast and ruin the timing of the encounter" or something along those lines. I think the Vita-Saw will remain banned, even if it requires to get close and personal as a Medic. Why isn't the current Übersaw banned if it gives 25% über per swing? No idea.

Welp, got really fucking bored of overwatch and tired of the 2fort ass map design on every single map so I'm coming back to TF2, so I might as well get active in the community again. Has anything happened since like late 2015 other than mym being a huge fucking bust with a shit load of pissed off people screaming about it?

[QUOTE=FalconHBFS;52399274]Something B4nny emphasized a lot on his analysis was "timing". With the Crit-a-Cola he said "Scouts could reach mid too fast and ruin the timing of the encounter" or something along those lines. I think the Vita-Saw will remain banned, even if it requires to get close and personal as a Medic. Why isn't the current Übersaw banned if it gives 25% über per swing? No idea.[/QUOTE] The uber-saw is risk-for-reward. You only gain 25% if you risk losing it by getting close and meleeing. The current vita-saw involves no risk, it is passive so no matter what you will recieve that advantage. That's why the new vita-saw has a likelihood of not being banned, because medics have to risk for that reward.

[QUOTE=Toro;52399282]Welp, got really fucking bored of overwatch and tired of the 2fort ass map design on every single map so I'm coming back to TF2, so I might as well get active in the community again. Has anything happened since like late 2015 other than mym being a huge fucking bust with a shit load of pissed off people screaming about it?[/QUOTE] Not counting Halloween there's basically been nothing but small quality of life improvements and cosmetics added.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52399304]Not counting Halloween there's basically been nothing but small quality of life improvements and cosmetics added.[/QUOTE] Yea, Casual improvements too and some neat bugs fixed - like quantum crouch and color correction.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;52397985]Because the 3 main power classes (Scout, Soldier, Demo) totally don't also become monsters with a medic attached. Heavy, when using his primary, is SLOW, and can't really do anything while shooting. Even with a Medic, there are an amazing amount of vulnerabilities that come with not being able to move. Heavies being able to give themselves Sandviches doesn't change the fact that their movement is conducive to near-constant damage sponging, and 150 health doesn't mean much when you're tanking rockets and pipes at every corner. And with the new GRU, the ability to give himself a Sandvich wouldn't overcome the max-health drain that occurs while wearing them. In a 6s environment, if the Heavy is all that's left of the team, and he needs that health, he MIGHT be able to get 1 or 2 more kills if the enemy doesn't know how to cornerspam, where he would've died with the normal Sandvich. [/QUOTE] Well, they don't. If you get the jump on an overhealed Demo or Soldier as say, another Soldier, you have the pure advantage and can get rid of them even though they have a medic attached. The Heavy on the other hand is another case. If you get the jump on him, he'll still have 350 HP left, which means that you can unload your entire clip on him and he'll still live his jolly live, while he mows you down. There's a reason mobility items are banned in comp, no one wants a 450 HP Heavy at mid denying dives. 150 HP means the world in a lot of situations, hell the Scout's Candy Cane med-drop can mean the world. If the current heavy has no team support, he should be an easy kill, just like the Engineer. I had an idea floating around that would basically be a sub-class for the Heavy - make a Minigun that comes with an ever so slight dmg and overheal penalty while increasing mobility and rev-up time, pair it with a secondary that gives the heavy passively 50+ max HP alongside a 3+ HP Regen every sec (depending on combat - think Concheror) and you have yourself a sub class that can work without a medic. (Has nothing to do with it but another idea I had was a Minigun that would basically have an explosion "blast" once shooting for the first time after revving up that would deal damage, but I dont think it syncs with the roamer heavy.)

I've yet to see people mention these things about the potential global minigun buff, and they're things I'm excited about: - The "passive" playstyle has been buffed. You can now deal long-range damage without having to worry about ammo conservation (think: burst firing) - The denial of bombers has become more effective. You'll be more likely to kill them in time before they reach your medic (waiting in anticipation will mean you're at maximum damage, rather than 50%) - You'll no longer have to fire at the ground or a nearby surface to engage a nearby enemy (a common occurrence when trying to 1 v 1 another heavy). This is something to consider when using the tomislav (think: no longer have to reveal yourself to be at 100% damage)

[QUOTE=hashfan;52399465] - You'll no longer have to fire at the ground or a nearby surface to engage a nearby enemy (a common occurrence when trying to 1 v 1 another heavy). This is something to consider when using the tomislav (think: no longer have to reveal yourself to be at 100% damage)[/QUOTE] This is what I'm most happy about, no more pre firing

I feel like the TF Team's weapon philosophy could change. What I mean with that is that they seem to try their hardest to make every weapon have their own, extremely distinct playstyle. An example of this is the Quickiebomb Launcher. At the start, it primarily was just Stock but with an offensive shtick to it - which I found was fine. It was the same playstyle, just a more offensive option. Then they slowly changed it, till MyM where they made it it's own weapon, since you now only have 4 Stickies and are heavily encouraged to charge them, changing the playstyle compared to Stock. I really believe that what TF needs are more weapons that are... just ever so slightly different to the ones we currently have instead of being a completely new playstyle. Here's an example ; I have a friend that really likes the Rescue Ranger, not for the defensive abilities, but for the way the weapon works in combat - however, to make the weapon balanced, the combat of it is rather mediocre. Just make a variant of the Rescue Ranger that is exactly the same as the current one, with the exception that it deals more damage, has a clip of 5, and can't heal or teleport buildings. As for visuals, do it the old way of just taking the model of the Rescue Ranger and sticking/removing something of it. Remove the tiny "heart monitor" - give it a different shade and add stripes to the lil yellow thing at the nuzzle - change the projectile it shoots to something scarier so people dont misunderstand it for the Rescue Ranger. Now you have a new weapon that satisfies a niche of players without having to think of a completely new playstyle. Is that lazy? Kinda. But it adds a lot more depth and fun to the game.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52399887]I feel like the TF Team's weapon philosophy could change. What I mean with that is that they seem to try their hardest to make every weapon have their own, extremely distinct playstyle. An example of this is the Quickiebomb Launcher. At the start, it primarily was just Stock but with an offensive shtick to it - which I found was fine. It was the same playstyle, just a more offensive option. Then they slowly changed it, till MyM where they made it it's own weapon, since you now only have 4 Stickies and are heavily encouraged to charge them, changing the playstyle compared to Stock. I really believe that what TF needs are more weapons that are... just ever so slightly different to the ones we currently have instead of being a completely new playstyle. Here's an example ; I have a friend that really likes the Rescue Ranger, not for the defensive abilities, but for the way the weapon works in combat - however, to make the weapon balanced, the combat of it is rather mediocre. Just make a variant of the Rescue Ranger that is exactly the same as the current one, with the exception that it deals more damage, has a clip of 5, and can't heal or teleport buildings. As for visuals, do it the old way of just taking the model of the Rescue Ranger and sticking/removing something of it. Remove the tiny "heart monitor" - give it a different shade and add stripes to the lil yellow thing at the nuzzle - change the projectile it shoots to something scarier so people dont misunderstand it for the Rescue Ranger. Now you have a new weapon that satisfies a niche of players without having to think of a completely new playstyle. Is that lazy? Kinda. But it adds a lot more depth and fun to the game.[/QUOTE] you'll find 90% of players hate +stat -stat weapons and looked down upon them for years

[QUOTE=Fluury;52399887]I feel like the TF Team's weapon philosophy could change. What I mean with that is that they seem to try their hardest to make every weapon have their own, extremely distinct playstyle. An example of this is the Quickiebomb Launcher. At the start, it primarily was just Stock but with an offensive shtick to it - which I found was fine. It was the same playstyle, just a more offensive option. Then they slowly changed it, till MyM where they made it it's own weapon, since you now only have 4 Stickies and are heavily encouraged to charge them, changing the playstyle compared to Stock. I really believe that what TF needs are more weapons that are... just ever so slightly different to the ones we currently have instead of being a completely new playstyle. Here's an example ; I have a friend that really likes the Rescue Ranger, not for the defensive abilities, but for the way the weapon works in combat - however, to make the weapon balanced, the combat of it is rather mediocre. Just make a variant of the Rescue Ranger that is exactly the same as the current one, with the exception that it deals more damage, has a clip of 5, and can't heal or teleport buildings. As for visuals, do it the old way of just taking the model of the Rescue Ranger and sticking/removing something of it. Remove the tiny "heart monitor" - give it a different shade and add stripes to the lil yellow thing at the nuzzle - change the projectile it shoots to something scarier so people dont misunderstand it for the Rescue Ranger. Now you have a new weapon that satisfies a niche of players without having to think of a completely new playstyle. Is that lazy? Kinda. But it adds a lot more depth and fun to the game.[/QUOTE] See I'd rather they make more unique weapons, the stockification began in 2013 and it was... Not that good. Essentially they nerfed all powerful weapons by making them work like stock, except worse, and the diversity disappeared. I'd rather they nerf weapons to oblivion while keeping their original gimmicks intact, so they're at least fun when you equip them once in a blue moon rather than just being basically the same thing as stock just less effective.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;52399903]you'll find 90% of players hate +stat -stat weapons and looked down upon them for years[/QUOTE] Wasn't the Quickiebomb positively looked down upon and didn't players ask for a "new" Huntsman for years? I don't have that impression at all, but I suppose I see a point. I'd just really like a Medigun that is just Uber but slightly longer or as said in the post a rescue ranger that is focused on damage.

I'd be interested in a medigun the gave slightly more, slightly faster building overheal that lasts longer or maybe doesn't drain at all, but has no special secondary fire ability. Wasn't there a model made for a similar concept years ago that looked like a double barrel medigun? The Overhealer or something similar it was called I think.

[QUOTE=Septimus01;52400021]I'd be interested in a medigun the gave slightly more, slightly faster building overheal that lasts longer or maybe doesn't drain at all, but has no special secondary fire ability. Wasn't there a model made for a similar concept years ago that looked like a double barrel medigun? The Overhealer or something similar it was called I think.[/QUOTE] I believe Valve scrapped that concept because it was deemed boring/unbalanceable.

[QUOTE=Caballero;52400040]I believe Valve scrapped that concept because it was deemed boring/unbalanceable.[/QUOTE] mouse1 heals somebody, mouse2 shoots a second beam that heals another body at once, allowing 2 patients. both beams can't attach on the same person. no ubercharge. done!

[QUOTE=Hell-met;52400076]mouse1 heals somebody, mouse2 shoots a second beam that heals another body at once, allowing 2 patients. both beams can't attach on the same person. no ubercharge. done![/QUOTE] What happens if you cross the beams?

The problem with the +stat -stat weapons had less to do with the format itself, and more to do with how the weapons tended to be awful garbage that nobody would want to use ever. Like early eviction notice or family business, where they were on par with, or maybe even slightly worse than, useless stock weapons like heavy shotgun or fists. It's less a problem with the +- format, and more a problem with how the +- format lends itself to creating weapons that are exact side grades to stock weapons, even when those stock weapons are trash garbage. When stock sucks, you need to make a side grades to the viable weapons in that slot, not balance around the worst option.