[QUOTE=Tac Error;30069403]France's conduct of the war at the strategic level before the late-war offensives is outside the scope of an FPS.[/QUOTE]
So if you're willing to accept one side's tactics and deny the other, I'm not sure how I can debate this whatsoever.
[QUOTE=Achilles123;30070935]So if you're willing to accept one side's tactics and deny the other, I'm not sure how I can debate this whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
You seem to be saying that because France at the strategic level, fought defensively for the majority of the war, it is incapable of using whatever tactical concepts it developed to break the trench stalemate in this game.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;30071002]You seem to be saying that because France at the strategic level, fought defensively for the majority of the war, it is incapable of using whatever tactical concepts it developed to break the trench stalemate in this game.[/QUOTE]
You're talking about the realistic German offensive.
I'm talking about the realistic French offensive.
Until reinforcements arrived to turn the tide, the French hardly ever won back any large amounts of land.
If you want to bring in completely false scenarios in which the French steamroll the Germans due to their superior technology, firepower, and strategy, be my guest. But then stop presenting a realistic counterpoint.
--
My main point is, we're talking about the French before reinforcements arrived. If the game wanted to show infiltration and large-scale offensive, it would have allowed you to play the German side.
[QUOTE=Achilles123;30071031]You're talking about the realistic German offensive.
I'm talking about the realistic French offensive.
Until reinforcements arrived to turn the tide, the French hardly ever won back any large amounts of land.[/quote]
Explain, and please provide detail and substantiation.
[quote]If you want to bring in completely false scenarios in which the French steamroll the Germans due to their superior technology, firepower, and strategy, be my guest. But then stop presenting a realistic counterpoint.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying that the French never achieved any sort of decisive victories over the Germans during WWI?
[QUOTE=booster;30063514]What is it with WW1 and grey clouds + rain.[/QUOTE]
Because it was Verdun. You honestly can't say there wouldn't be no clouds if there was hundreds of artillery pieces going off at once. Add in some smoke from various fire sources and you got yourself a slight 100% chance of overcast.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;30071084]
So you're saying that the French never achieved any sort of decisive victories over the Germans during WWI?[/QUOTE]
No. Verdun was a tactical victory but it wasn't decisive. The Second Battle of the Marne could be seen as a more decisive victory but it was an Allied operation (44 French divisions, 14 Allied divisions).
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;30071156]Because it was Verdun. You honestly can't say there wouldn't be no clouds if there was hundreds of artillery pieces going off at once. At in some smoke from various fire sources and you got yourself a slight 100% chance of overcast.
No. Verdun was a tactical victory but it wasn't decisive. The Second Battle of the Marne could be seen as a more decisive victory but it was an Allied operation (44 French divisions, 14 Allied divisions).[/QUOTE]
Also, after the Nivelle offensive, the French really didn't have the strength to do any large-scale offensives, until they received massive support.
[QUOTE=Achilles123;30071239]Also, after the Nivelle offensive, the French really didn't have the strength to do any large-scale offensives, until they received massive support.[/QUOTE]
Okay, then forward your "I dunno, I can't see the infiltration system having any kind of practical use in trench warfare. If you got into their trenches, they would know it." opinion to the developers then.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;30071266]Okay, then forward your "I dunno, I can't see the infiltration system having any kind of practical use in trench warfare. If you got into their trenches, they would know it." opinion to the developers then.[/QUOTE]
I don't think they're going for an entirely realistic game.
I also don't really feel like it.
[QUOTE=Achilles123;30071284]I don't think they're going for an entirely realistic game.
I also don't really feel like it.[/QUOTE]
Let me find you some alternatives
[url]http://www.thelordzgamesstudio.com/site/games/commander-the-great-war/[/url]
[url]http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/ww1/fRANCE14/FRANCE14.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Tac Error;30071308]Let me find you some alternatives
[url]http://www.thelordzgamesstudio.com/site/games/commander-the-great-war/[/url]
[url]http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/ww1/fRANCE14/FRANCE14.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Uh, thanks?
I really hope (and I'm not using sarcasm here) you didn't get the impression that, due to just that, I wouldn't like the game. I just hope that they neither try to present something realistic when it isn't, nor try to fit too much into a game that doesn't require it.
[QUOTE=Achilles123;30071531]Uh, thanks?
I really hope (and I'm not using sarcasm here) you didn't get the impression that, due to just that, I wouldn't like the game. I just hope that they neither try to present something realistic when it isn't, nor try to fit too much into a game that doesn't require it.[/QUOTE]
soldiers in WW1 infiltrated trenches all the time, that's how the creation of storm troopers came about in the German forces. Trenches went on for miles and were like mazes, you can't expect a soldier in every section of the trench.
[QUOTE=Vasili;30072087]soldiers in WW1 infiltrated trenches all the time, that's how the creation of storm troopers came about in the German forces. Trenches went on for miles and were like mazes, you can't expect a soldier in every section of the trench.[/QUOTE]
Alright, we've been over this.
The Germans did, yes. The French, not so much.
[QUOTE=TrafficMan;30069241]Play as Russia on the Eastern front and don't even get a weapon.[/QUOTE]
Play an Australian at Gallipolli, play Mount and Blade: Fire and Sword: Muddy Edition
Can you be German?
[QUOTE=Swilly;30072442]Can you be German?[/QUOTE]
I think it's only the French.
However, if it's a success, I can't see why they wouldn't also add in a German opportunity.
[QUOTE=Achilles123;30068864]I dunno, I can't see the infiltration system having any kind of practical use in trench warfare. If you got into their trenches, they would know it.[/QUOTE]
All the major powers performed trench raiding operations on the western front, and if you don't think France was a major power you have a lot of reading to do.
And it was [I]very, very common.[/I]
[QUOTE=mastermaul;30072944]All the major powers performed trench raiding operations on the western front, and if you don't think France was a major power you have a lot of reading to do.
And it was [I]very, very common.[/I][/QUOTE]
I might be wrong.
Do you have any evidence?
First off are you even aware of what trench raiding is?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_raiding[/url]
[QUOTE=mastermaul;30073023]First off are you even aware of what trench raiding is?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_raiding[/url][/QUOTE]
I am.
[QUOTE=Achilles123;30073063]I am.[/QUOTE]
Trench raids were very impromptu operations, there isn't going to be a hell of a lot of documentation since it's a squad-level intelligence gathering operation. I think you're confusing trench raiding with strormtrooper tactics, something indeed most developed among the Germans.
Douglas MacArthur got his first silver star accompanying a French trench raid.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur#Champagne-Marne_Offensive[/url]
[QUOTE=mastermaul;30073264]Trench raids were very impromptu operations, there isn't going to be a hell of a lot of documentation since it's a squad-level intelligence gathering operation. I think you're confusing trench raiding with strormtrooper tactics, something indeed most developed among the Germans.
Douglas MacArthur got his first silver star accompanying a French trench raid.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur#Champagne-Marne_Offensive[/URL][/QUOTE]
See, the only reason I don't immediately accept that as proof is that I don't know who was in command of that particular trench. When I say the French, I don't mean that no french troops ever did, I mean that they were ordered pretty much exclusively by foreign commanders.
And to be honest, I'm probably wrong. But I dunno yet.
At 1918, I'm pretty sure the majority of the troops weren't really French, but again, I'm not sure.
[QUOTE=Achilles123;30072232]Alright, we've been over this.
The Germans did, yes. The French, not so much.[/QUOTE]
Okay but that doesn't mean we can't have French soldiers infiltrating.
GRRARAR
See my earlier post. I don't care one way or another if it's realistic. I just want them to be sure they're neither promising too much nor too little.
I find it funny how MacArthur was in the rainbow division :v:
An update on ModDB, it's just music for the game but it's still a signal that development is active. Also apparently they're in the process of porting it to the newest version of torque.
[url]http://www.moddb.com/games/the-trench/videos[/url]
Songs are available here.
I know we won't be able to play as the Germans, but if we do, I would LOVE to see a small segment of submarine warfare.
[QUOTE=mastermaul;30249930]An update on ModDB, it's just music for the game but it's still a signal that development is active. Also apparently they're in the process of porting it to the newest version of torque.
[URL]http://www.moddb.com/games/the-trench/videos[/URL]
Songs are available here.[/QUOTE]
Yay!
I was worried that the death of the thread meant lack of development.
(and was a little too lazy to check the ModDB.)
*uncrouches*
*immediately shot in head*
"YOU'RE DIED"
[QUOTE=Achilles123;30251400]Yay!
I was worried that the death of the thread meant lack of development.
(and was a little too lazy to check the ModDB.)[/QUOTE]
Thread died because you can only say "looks cool can't wait" for so long.
[editline]4th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=certified;30251463]*uncrouches*
*immediately shot in head*
"YOU'RE DIED"[/QUOTE]
No, that's not how it worked. Read up a bit before you make baseless assumptions.
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