[QUOTE=Zeos;34569555]Yeah, especially [sp]Grunt. He has NO ONE ELSE, where the fuck would he go?[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]It sounds like he's back with Clan Urdnot fighting with the krogan and you meet with him in a mission involving a turian Primarch's son.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Goldenboy;34569486][sp]The one thing I don't buy is the crew. The leak states that they all went back to Cerberus (with Gabby & Ken sneaking away), which is TOTAL bullshit, considering that all the crew make it very clear that post Collector base, they're loyal to you, not Cerberus. And given that Joker is still your helmsman, it's pretty clear the Alliance is forgiving of former operatives.
Along with your crew, Miranda, Jacob & Garrus should absolutely still be aboard at the least. I'd be extremely surprised if Garrus wasn't a squadmate from the very start. I could also see Kasumi sticking around, if only due to her greybox's data. [/sp][/QUOTE]
Some pretty major spoilers:
[sp]From what I have seen of the leak none of them return to Cerberus. Miranda and Oriana have conflicts with their father who now openly supports Cerberus after hearing of Miranda's resignation, Jacob and Kelly assist either ex-Cerberus or just refugees in hiding, Ken and Gabby can even be recruited from what I've heard (only if they both survived, if not Ken suffers survivor's guilt over Gabby's death). I have no idea what happened to Mess Sergeant Rupert Gardner. Extra spoiler (If you don't want to be spoiled any further): There's even some dialogue where someone mentions Kelly being assassinated by Cerberus agents.[/sp]
Don't know how much made it into the full game, though. But it sounds cool.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;34570152][URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/11WEhHVuzsRseHO8LCQI_xg9SbPm8onFw3oOczO7VKyQ/edit?hl=en_US"]Locations[/URL] Google Doc is made.
Please OP to update that.[/QUOTE]
Just noticed that [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Sim4egetAp3m1V2BQnTGuxWXJvYGsW5X0Wrl4e6RS8Y/edit?hl=en_US"]Characters[/URL] section is also not linked.
[thumb]http://i.imgur.com/sMqer.jpg[/thumb]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mt9wJ.jpg[/IMG]
C-SEC means business.
[QUOTE=Goldenboy;34569486][sp]The one thing I don't buy is the crew. The leak states that they all went back to Cerberus (with Gabby & Ken sneaking away), which is TOTAL bullshit, considering that all the crew make it very clear that post Collector base, they're loyal to you, not Cerberus. And given that Joker is still your helmsman, it's pretty clear the Alliance is forgiving of former operatives.
Along with your crew, Miranda, Jacob & Garrus should absolutely still be aboard at the least. I'd be extremely surprised if Garrus wasn't a squadmate from the very start. I could also see Kasumi sticking around, if only due to her greybox's data.
I understand Thane & Mordin's absence due to research, and I can assume Grunt, Legion & Tali would leave to help their respective races prepare for the invasion. The rest...if it's well-explained, I'm cool.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]Legion, Mordin, and Thane don't join your squad because they're fucking dead. Miranda shows almost no concerns about her years with cerberus or helping you against them, and she just goes after her fucking sister. It looks like you can extent an invitation for Samara to join your "armies" but I saw nothing for your actual team.
Meanwhile, Tali can be a damn admiral of the quarian fleet, and she opts to join your squad for what amounts to shits and giggles.
This shit is as cheap as cheap gets. [/sp]
Hooray for Bioware fucking shit up majorly.
Well isn't that just fucking great.
Guys, it was a leaked script, doesn't mean it was 100% finished.
[QUOTE=Jetamo;34573474]Guys, it was a leaked script, doesn't mean it was 100% finished.[/QUOTE]
Ok, maybe there's a bit more to their roles than that, but there's no way they're coming back as full time squadmates. There's no justification for it when you look at who joins the squad and who doesn't.
[QUOTE=Dumb Dog;34573538]Ok, maybe there's a bit more to their roles than that, but there's no way they're coming back as full time squadmates. There's no justification for it when you look at who joins the squad and who doesn't.[/QUOTE]
That's not exactly true, most of them feel needed elsewhere for other business:
Legion: to support his people
Tali: to support her people (and from the sounds of it, you only get her if you [sp]side with the quarians or resolve the quarian/geth conflict peacefully for both sides[/sp])
Mordin: Goes to assist with curing the genophage [sp]sacrificing himself to spread the cure on Tuchanka[/sp]
Wrex: Leading his people to a better future rather than fighting to extinction.
Thane: [sp]Well beyond his estimated due date to succumb to Kepral's syndrome he's ensuring the hanar scientist's safety (whom are developing a cure for Kepral's Syndrome from what I hear) and assists with an assassination on the Citadel. Doing some last minute things to ease his passing[/sp]
Samara: was only sworn to you for the Suicide Mission after that she continues her Justicar shit elsewhere.
Jacob: [sp]Assists Cerberus defectors in going underground and protecting his unborn child (possibly if he wasn't romanced(?))[/sp]
Jack: [sp]Became a biotic teacher at Grissom Academy.[/sp]
Miranda: [sp]Miranda's got shit to settle with her father[/sp]
Grunt: Nothing other than [sp]leading some of Clan Urdnot's warriors[/sp] (so he has about the least binds from what it sounds like).
Zaeed: [sp]Works for Cerberus now but can be convinced otherwise (but I don't know the whole situation regarding this)[/sp]
Kasumi: I haven't seen anything regarding her...
They'll most likely assist you and accompany you on some missions, briefly, but other than that they have responsibilities elsewhere.
As for the crew you do get, I can't say at the moment. I'd say it would make more sense seeing it in game, but I can't say with the utmost certainty.
I gotta say, the advertising for Mass Effect 3 does an excellent job of pissing fans off. Here's the official description from Microsoft:
"One thing that is important to message is that players don't have to play the first two games to enjoy the third. Everything has been leading up to this point in the Mass Effect saga. [B][U]Mass Effect 3 is the beginning and end of the war. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were prequels to this game."[/U][/B]
I mean, come on. What kind of bullshit is this.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;34573925]I gotta say, the advertising for Mass Effect 3 does an excellent job of pissing fans off. Here's the official description from Microsoft:
"One thing that is important to message is that players don't have to play the first two games to enjoy the third. Everything has been leading up to this point in the Mass Effect saga. [B][U]Mass Effect 3 is the beginning and end of the war. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were prequels to this game."[/U][/B]
I mean, come on. What kind of bullshit is this.[/QUOTE]
They're trying to appeal to a wider audience, the ones that haven't played ME1 or ME2. Who cares if a couple fans jump ship, Bioware knows most fans of the other games will buy ME3 and they don't even have to hide it.
The only fans Bioware regularly interacts with are the ones from BSN, and we all know how big of a cesspit that is.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34573957]They're trying to appeal to a wider audience, the ones that haven't played ME1 or ME2. Who cares if a couple fans jump ship, Bioware knows most fans of the other games will buy ME3 and they don't even have to hide it.[/QUOTE]
Y'know, I'm a die-hard Bioware defender but stuff like this? We've all known for a long time that they've been pushing ME3 is a standalone title, but to dismiss the prior two games as PREQUELS?
I don't know what they're smoking over there, but it must be good.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34573957]They're trying to appeal to a wider audience, the ones that haven't played ME1 or ME2. Who cares if a couple fans jump ship, [b]Bioware knows most fans of the other games will buy ME3 and they don't even have to hide it.[/b][/QUOTE]
Overconfidence can be dangerous.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;34573981]Y'know, I'm a die-hard Bioware defender but stuff like this? We've all known for a long time that they've been pushing ME3 is a standalone title, but to dismiss the prior two games as PREQUELS?
I don't know what they're smoking over there, but it must be good.[/QUOTE]
The entire series has been pushing to the war with the Reapers, they're fairly correct in saying that the previous games were just prequels.
boycott ME3 row row fight the power
[QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;34573832]That's not exactly true, most of them feel needed elsewhere for other business:
Legion: to support his people
Tali: to support her people (and from the sounds of it, you only get her if you [sp]side with the quarians or resolve the quarian/geth conflict peacefully for both sides[/sp])
Mordin: Goes to assist with curing the genophage [sp]sacrificing himself to spread the cure on Tuchanka[/sp]
Wrex: Leading his people to a better future rather than fighting to extinction.
Thane: [sp]Well beyond his estimated due date to succumb to Kepral's syndrome he's ensuring the hanar scientist's safety (whom are developing a cure for Kepral's Syndrome from what I hear) and assists with an assassination on the Citadel. Doing some last minute things to ease his passing[/sp]
Samara: was only sworn to you for the Suicide Mission after that she continues her Justicar shit elsewhere.
Jacob: [sp]Assists Cerberus defectors in going underground and protecting his unborn child (possibly if he wasn't romanced(?))[/sp]
Jack: [sp]Became a biotic teacher at Grissom Academy.[/sp]
Miranda: [sp]Miranda's got shit to settle with her father[/sp]
Grunt: Nothing other than [sp]leading some of Clan Urdnot's warriors[/sp] (so he has about the least binds from what it sounds like).
Zaeed: [sp]Works for Cerberus now but can be convinced otherwise (but I don't know the whole situation regarding this)[/sp]
Kasumi: I haven't seen anything regarding her...
They'll most likely assist you and accompany you on some missions, briefly, but other than that they have responsibilities elsewhere.
As for the crew you do get, I can't say at the moment. I'd say it would make more sense seeing it in game, but I can't say with the utmost certainty.[/QUOTE]
Legion: [sp]dead, because it would make too much sense for him to join after his conflict is up[/sp]
Tali: [sp] My point is that other people seemingly have huge responsibilities, and yet when tali does, she can join shepard anyway. [/sp]
Mordin: [sp]dead if he cures the genophage, or works on the crucible. Either way, the main point is that he's supposed to disappear once his conflict is up.[/sp]
Samara: She actually tells you at the end of ME2 that she would gladly fight for you if you called.
Jacob: [sp]Jacob's place in the game is the only one that I'd expect...until you realize he fucking dumps femshep[/sp]
Jack: [sp]Let's ignore Jack's huge criminal history and make her a teacher, I'm sure people would be fine with that. Does it even make sense if you didn't romance her, or at least go paragon with her? Renegade shepard fucking encourages her to kill people.[/sp]
Miranda: [sp]We clearly needed to bring up her sister and daddy issues again. It's bad enough they invalidated an entire team we recruited, let's invalidate their loyalty missions too. In a game where cerberus is a major enemy, you'd think a former cerberus second in command would offer you some fucking help. She runs off to find her sister without ever telling you where she went. In fact, mordin and legion's deaths bring you something. Miranda dies doing fuck all after the "cereal killer" gets her. [/sp]
Grunt: [sp]He looked to shepard for direction as his battlemaster and now all the sudden he's a leader? [/sp]
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34574046]The entire series has been pushing to the war with the Reapers, they're fairly correct in saying that the previous games were just prequels.[/QUOTE]
It's possible I'm just have a knee-jerk reaction to this, but the way they've marketed Mass Effect 3 just rubs me the wrong way.
Have they done ANYTHING to reassure fans of the franchise? I can't think of much.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;34574066]It's possible I'm just have a knee-jerk reaction to this, but the way they've marketed Mass Effect 3 just rubs me the wrong way.
[B]
Have they done ANYTHING to reassure fans of the franchise? I can't think of much.[/B][/QUOTE]
You can make a level 1 Shepard in ME3, pop it into Action Mode with the default choices and still beat the game with at least a good ending?
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34574080]You can make a level 1 Shepard in ME3, pop it into Action Mode with the default choices and still beat the game with at least a good ending?[/QUOTE]
From what I know, yes.
To be fair, why wouldn't they let you do that? You shouldn't horribly fuck over the player if they chose Action mode, and you shouldn't fuck them over when you promise ME3 to be a more accessible game to all kinds of gamers.
[b][i]'Fuck the casual viewer. Seriously, who wants a casual viewer? If you’re a writer do you want a casual reader? I don’t want those people. Don’t want ‘em. Throwing them back. They’re like little fish on the hook. Throw ‘em back. I want the guy who’s come in who wants to be told a story. A story has a beginning, middle and an end.'[/i][/b] - David Simon
[QUOTE=Goldenboy;34574506][b][i]'Fuck the casual viewer. Seriously, who wants a casual viewer? If you’re a writer do you want a casual reader? I don’t want those people. Don’t want ‘em. Throwing them back. They’re like little fish on the hook. Throw ‘em back. I want the guy who’s come in who wants to be told a story. A story has a beginning, middle and an end.'[/i][/b] - David Simon[/QUOTE]
What a nice guy.
[QUOTE=Goldenboy;34574506][b][i]'Fuck the casual viewer. Seriously, who wants a casual viewer? If you’re a writer do you want a casual reader? I don’t want those people. Don’t want ‘em. Throwing them back. They’re like little fish on the hook. Throw ‘em back. I want the guy who’s come in who wants to be told a story. A story has a beginning, middle and an end.'[/i][/b] - David Simon[/QUOTE]
Isn't the entire point of a game to have fun? If I'm playing the equivalent of someone saying I'm an idiot and don't deserve the grace of their masteful expertise because I came specifically to have fun, I don't imagine I'd be enjoying it much. Besides, people like being told a story because they enjoy them. Apparently it isn't paramount that I enjoy something if we're willing to throw it away for the sake of calling me a fucktard, so why give me something else I may enjoy if you're just gonna insult me when I try and seek it myself?
I'll damn well play a game casually if it means I enjoy it, because that is what a game is for. I am not going to play a game that says I'm an idiot for trying to find enjoyment in it.
[QUOTE=Cone;34574660]Isn't the entire point of a game to have fun? If I'm playing the equivalent of someone saying I'm an idiot and don't deserve the grace of their masteful expertise because I came specifically to have fun, I don't imagine I'd be enjoying it much. Besides, people like being told a story because they enjoy them. Apparently it isn't paramount that I enjoy something if we're willing to throw it away for the sake of calling me a fucktard, so why give me something else I may enjoy if you're just gonna insult me when I try and seek it myself?
I'll damn well play a game casually if it means I enjoy it, because that is what a game is for. I am not going to play a game that says I'm an idiot for trying to find enjoyment in it.[/QUOTE]
It's an argument for storytelling, not enjoyment. If you spend an entire game on character development (ME2), then disregard it in the conclusion for the sake of accessibility, you've just wasted everyone's time.
In the end I think both of you are sort of wrong, Games are a lot more than enjoyment, (Probably misunderstanding you here.) but at the same time you can't alienate people from your game or series. Especially when you make promises of having it be open to people.
[QUOTE=Goldenboy;34574697]If you spend an entire game on character development (ME2), then disregard it in the conclusion for the sake of accessibility, you've just wasted everyone's time.[/QUOTE]
This is my biggest gripe with the current situation regarding Mass Effect 3. What happened to fighting the Reapers as united squad? The speech after the Suicide Mission, is that to be wasted paper and wasted time now?
[QUOTE=Goldenboy;34574697]It's an argument for storytelling, not enjoyment. If you spend an entire game on character development (ME2), then disregard it in the conclusion for the sake of accessibility, you've just wasted everyone's time.[/QUOTE]
Well David Simon is still a dick.
Besides, if we don't listen to storytelling [I]for[/I] enjoyment, why else would we?
[QUOTE=Cone;34574739]Well David Simon is still a dick.
Besides, if we don't listen to storytelling [I]for[/I] enjoyment, why else would we?[/QUOTE]
I don't know about Mass-Effect's story, but stories can contain things like meaningful messages or commentary, show opinions of people or overall just be art.
[QUOTE=Cone;34574739]Well David Simon is still a dick.
Besides, if we don't listen to storytelling [I]for[/I] enjoyment, why else would we?[/QUOTE]
You can tell a good story in a single game, no doubt.
But when you build a series around your own, personal continuity, and develop themes and characters over three games, only to largely disregard the development in the conclusion, you're setting yourself up for a much weaker story.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;34574779]I don't know about Mass-Effect's story, but stories can contain things like meaningful messages or commentary, show opinions of people or overall just be art.[/QUOTE]
Mass Effect's story is designed to be interpreted in many ways, even the gameplay reflects this. The player influences the decisions which in turn influences the grand scheme of the game. Some people see it as a social commentary or just a simple sci-fi game, which truly shows the ambiguity of it.
Mass Effect is really a game that puts the player in the core, their decisions create the twists and turns. It's understandable why the ''old guard'' of the game are concerned with ME3, it's potentially going to throw away all that people have played through for no apparent reason.
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