[QUOTE=Goldenboy;34574807]You can tell a good story in a single game, no doubt.
But when you build a series around your own, personal continuity, and develop themes and characters over three games, only to largely disregard the development in the conclusion, you're setting yourself up for a much weaker story.[/QUOTE]
Welcome to the Gaming industry I guess, they have to bring more people in for more money.
[editline]6th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;34574859]Mass Effect's story is designed to be interpreted in many ways, even the gameplay reflects this. The player influences the decisions which in turn influences the grand scheme of the game. Some people see it as a social commentary or just a simple sci-fi game, which truly shows the ambiguity of it.
Mass Effect is really a game that puts the player in the core, their decisions create the twists and turns. It's understandable why the ''old guard'' of the game are concerned with ME3, it's potentially going to throw away all that people have played through for no apparent reason.[/QUOTE]
Its sad, but I guess this is just the way the cookie crumbles, but perhaps it won't be so bad, who really knows.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;34574864]
Its sad, but I guess this is just the way the cookie crumbles, but perhaps it won't be so bad, who really knows.[/QUOTE]
In my opinion it will be bad considering that ME2 is now going to be a bit of a waste of our time. [sp]Why add character development if you're going to piss it away?[/sp]
[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;34574928]In my opinion it will be bad considering that ME2 is now going to be a bit of a waste of our time. [sp]Why add character development if you're going to piss it away?[/sp][/QUOTE]
I don't think it will be that bad, hopefully the final game will make it more apparent, I'm just hopeful their last few scenes will be explained and meaningful.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;34574967]I don't think it will be that bad, hopefully the final game will make it more apparent, I'm just hopeful their last few scenes will be explained and meaningful.[/QUOTE]
The best you can hope for is that a one mission appearance is good... Sorry, but I wanted nothing more than to kick some ass with my favorite space bros on the Normandy. If nothing changes, ME3 will be a disappointment.
[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;34574859]Mass Effect's story is designed to be interpreted in many ways, even the gameplay reflects this. The player influences the decisions which in turn influences the grand scheme of the game. Some people see it as a social commentary or just a simple sci-fi game, which truly shows the ambiguity of it.
Mass Effect is really a game that puts the player in the core, their decisions create the twists and turns. It's understandable why the ''old guard'' of the game are concerned with ME3, it's potentially going to throw away all that people have played through for no apparent reason.[/QUOTE]
If you look hard enough you can see everything you've ever wanted to. At that point it only really matters what the developers say in regards to what the story means - everything will be visible in a story because at least one person will never cease looking.
Like, that one guy who argues that Mass Effect is representative of Marxism. It may be what the developers wanted, it may not be, but he sees what he sees because he wants to see it, and if he really likes what he sees there's never any denying it's there.
Basically, symbolism is pointless because at least one person will see it if you put it in or not. Every story ever, from the Count of Monte Christo to the Three Little Pigs, is meaningful.
[QUOTE=Cone;34574997]If you look hard enough you can see everything you've ever wanted to. At that point it only really matters what the developers say in regards to what the story means - everything will be visible in a story because at least one person will never cease looking.
Like, that one guy who argues that Mass Effect is representative of Marxism. It may be what the developers wanted, it may not be, but he sees what he sees because he wants to see it, and if he really likes what he sees there's never any denying it's there.
Basically, symbolism is pointless because at least one person will see it if you put it in or not. Every story ever, from the Count of Monte Christo to the Three Little Pigs, is meaningful.[/QUOTE]
I'm not getting into a big debate. But Symbolism isn't pointless, if anything its simply another part of life. Life is nothing more than a canvas and you give things in it meaning, Symbolism is a smaller version of that.
Art is to give things meaning. If you think Mass-Effect is worthless trash or a throw-away game to play? Thats great. I think its an emotional story with what does seem to be commentary (or things that mirror real-life). You see buddy, thats the beauty of life and art You're not wrong nor am I. I enjoy it my way, you enjoy it your way.
So no. Symbolism is not pointless.
[editline]6th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dumb Dog;34574995]The best you can hope for is that a one mission appearance is good... Sorry, but I wanted nothing more than to kick some ass with my favorite space bros on the Normandy. If nothing changes, ME3 will be a disappointment.[/QUOTE]
We'll just have to see I guess. I'm withholding judgement till I play the demo and sit on it a bit.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;34575114]I'm not getting into a big debate. But Symbolism isn't pointless, if anything its simply another part of life. Life is nothing more than a canvas and you give things in it meaning, Symbolism is a smaller version of that.[/QUOTE]
That is pretty much what I'm saying, but unless you're someone really really really important nobody but you will care for what you see in the world.
So it's just about as pointless as everything else is these days.
Oh god, wrong thread.
[QUOTE=Cone;34575140]That is pretty much what I'm saying, but unless you're someone really really really important nobody but you will care for what you see in the world.
So it's just about as pointless as everything else is these days.[/QUOTE]
I suppose I'm misunderstanding a bit with the "pointless" bit. But I don't know, I think its important to actually care about what you see in the world, you should always be an independent critical thinking person, besides. I don't know about you, but I enjoy talking about opinions or what people see in art or other things. Its a real blanket statement to say no one else will care. What about friends, family, or loved ones?
I hate to bring up my BF cause I know I unintentionally use him as an example all the time, but we definitely care about eachother's opinions and interpretations of things. (Yes we're nerds and talk about Mass-Effect a lot)
[editline]6th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=MajorMattem;34575178][img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Shazbot1.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
Uh, Cool?
I want to buy some stuff from the store of BioWare, but so many problems!
First, I want a litograph, but they are only selling mini-litographs wich are way too small for having them as a poster and then I want to buy some t-shirts, but what the fuck, 25 dollars for one? FUCK IT.
Can I share my suffering with somebody else?
[QUOTE=doommarine23;34574967]I don't think it will be that bad, hopefully the final game will make it more apparent, I'm just hopeful their last few scenes will be explained and meaningful.[/QUOTE]
What I'm interested in is what [sp]was the entire point of ME2 at this point? The only meaningful thing we would've gotten out of it now is setting the backstory behind things such as the Genophage and the Geth/Heretic situation. If that was the only result of ME2, then they could've done THAT a hell of a lot better.[/sp]
It's not a good sign when a game originally renowned for it's storytelling and character development has such a shaky story in their later installments, that fans and /v/ can come up with better ways to weave the plot.
Simply put, Mac Walters is a horrible story writer, a good character writer sure, but I simply can't understand why Bioware gave him the job of writing a plot.
[QUOTE=Caragolpe;34575275]I want to buy some stuff from the store of BioWare, but so many problems!
First, I want a litograph, but they are only selling mini-litographs wich are way too small for having them as a poster and then I want to buy some t-shirts, but what the fuck, 25 dollars for one? FUCK IT.
Can I share my suffering with somebody else?[/QUOTE]
If I had money I'd buy you something :\
I don't understand what that is, but it's cool anyway.
Also, if ME3 DOES turn out as bad storywise as the leaks suggest, we can always disavow it's relevance like how hardcore Terminator fans disavowed the canonicity of Terminator 3.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34575280]What I'm interested in is what [sp]was the entire point of ME2 at this point? The only meaningful thing we would've gotten out of it now is setting the backstory behind things such as the Genophage and the Geth/Heretic situation. If that was the only result of ME2, then they could've done THAT a hell of a lot better.[/sp][/QUOTE]
I guess like you said, the backbone of that stuff, but I also feel it was to get deeper with the characters on a more personal level. Besides that, it was also to get a bit more indepth with the galaxy. I felt a bit more connected to the places I went to in ME2, I felt like the story, lore, and actual events and issues presented in both itself and ME1 were more there in my face, much more personal.
ME2 was as much a character driven story, as it was a society, and event driven story. It went way more in-depth about the nitty-gritty of galactic life, I felt. Its really up to debate, but I guess ME2 made me feel a bit more rooted in what you're supposed to be fighting for. Its one thing to hear Tali talk about the Migrant Fleet, its another to be on their ships, its one thing to hear about the genophage or the Krogan people from Wrex, its another to truly be there and to truly see it on a personal level.
That, is the point of ME2. In my opinion. Connecting to your squad and the world around you. Finally seeing the things that ME1 glanced at or only mentioned.
[QUOTE=ironman17;34575292]I don't understand what that is, but it's cool anyway.
[B]
Also, if ME3 DOES turn out as bad storywise as the leaks suggest, we can always disavow it's relevance like how hardcore Terminator fans disavowed the canonicity of Terminator 3.[/B][/QUOTE]
And then we become a bunch of "those fans" that fawn over the glory days while turning our noses at recent installments?
[QUOTE=Caragolpe;34575275]I want to buy some stuff from the store of BioWare, but so many problems!
First, I want a litograph, but they are only selling mini-litographs wich are way too small for having them as a poster and then I want to buy some t-shirts, but what the fuck, 25 dollars for one? FUCK IT.
Can I share my suffering with somebody else?[/QUOTE]
£25 is standard price for a decent t-shirt. Isn't that bad if you're employed.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34575280]
It's not a good sign when a game originally renowned for it's storytelling and character development has such a shaky story in their later installments, that fans and /v/ can come up with better ways to weave the plot.
Simply put, Mac Walters is a horrible story writer, a good character writer sure, but I simply can't understand why Bioware gave him the job of writing a plot.[/QUOTE]
I'm also pretty sure Mac Walters was ME1-ME2-ME3's lead writer.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34575280]What I'm interested in is what [sp]was the entire point of ME2 at this point? The only meaningful thing we would've gotten out of it now is setting the backstory behind things such as the Genophage and the Geth/Heretic situation. If that was the only result of ME2, then they could've done THAT a hell of a lot better.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Well, any expanding on the universe is good. Both games so far were pretty big, so I feel that the size of the story itself necessitates the making of three games rather than two. I mean, we like games with size to them, but do we really want Mass Effect 3 to be as big as two games stuffed into one?
Pretty much, a second game allows the developers to refine what they know and thus provide a better third game. It's all for the betterment of the series, I assure you.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34575330]And then we become a bunch of "those fans" that fawn over the glory days while turning our noses at recent installments?[/QUOTE]
Maybe you guys, but I'll be trying to enjoy ME3 :v:
[QUOTE=doommarine23;34575329]
ME2 was as much a character driven story, as it was a society, and event driven story. It went way more in-depth about the nitty-gritty of galactic life, I felt. Its really up to debate, but I guess ME2 made me feel a bit more rooted in what you're supposed to be fighting for. Its one thing to hear Tali talk about the Migrant Fleet, its another to be on their ships, its one thing to hear about the genophage or the Krogan people from Wrex, its another to truly be there and to truly see it on a personal level.
[/QUOTE]
No no, what I'm saying is the nitty gritty was good, but it could've been done so much better. Think of what other plots could've been created if Bioware got rid of the Collectors as the main antagonist and the main plot revolving around developing a "suicide team" of specialists. Hell, Tali and Garrus would still be around, same with Legion, maybe even Miranda, Jacob and EDI if the plot had you dealing with Cerberus extensively.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34575375]No no, what I'm saying is the nitty gritty was good, but it could've been done so much better. Think of what other plots could've been created if Bioware got rid of the Collectors as the main antagonist and the main plot revolving around developing a "suicide team" of specialists.[/QUOTE]
Not too sure myself honestly.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;34575357]I'm also pretty sure Mac Walters was ME1-ME2-ME3's lead writer.[/QUOTE]
Mac Walters was the lead character writer for Wrex and Garrus in ME1, the rest was done by Drew Karpyshyn.
[QUOTE=ironman17;34575292]I don't understand what that is, but it's cool anyway.
Also, if ME3 DOES turn out as bad storywise as the leaks suggest, we can always disavow it's relevance like how hardcore Terminator fans disavowed the canonicity of Terminator 3.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but then Shepard would turn out to be a wierd old man living on the citadel.
"THE REAPERS ARE COMING."
"Come on Mr Shepard, lets go get your meds."
"B-BUT THE REAPERSSSS!..."
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34575404]Mac Walters was the lead character writer for Wrex and Garrus in ME1, the rest was done by Drew Karpyshyn.[/QUOTE]
Well god-damn.
I just thought about this: the litographs I want were special edition ones only avaible for a small time. I'm wondering if we are gonna get a set of litographs like that again now that ME3 is coming. If so, when do you think they are gonna be avaible? after or before ME3 is out?
[QUOTE=Caragolpe;34575574]I just thought about this: the litographs I want were special edition ones only avaible for a small time. I'm wondering if we are gonna get a set of litographs like that again now that ME3 is coming. If so, when do you think they are gonna be avaible? after or before ME3 is out?[/QUOTE]
Probably after.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34575375]No no, what I'm saying is the nitty gritty was good, but it could've been done so much better. Think of what other plots could've been created if Bioware got rid of the Collectors as the main antagonist and the main plot revolving around developing a "suicide team" of specialists. Hell, Tali and Garrus would still be around, same with Legion, maybe even Miranda, Jacob and EDI if the plot had you dealing with Cerberus extensively.[/QUOTE]
It was never that developed, and it's starting to show. Halo3 was the same way. Gameplay>Story and all the reveals that were supposed to broaden the universe were cheap knock offs of other conventions, but because it was [I]Halo[/I] it was somehow just supposed to be wrapped in verisimilitude and sheathed in context just by association. It didn't work then, and it's not going to work here either.
BioWare simply doesn't get it. They had a concept with beginning and an end, and figured the rest could be improvised. The fact they still don't have a clue why Tali, Garrus, Wrex, and Legion are as popular as they are pretty much says everything. Considering that that aspect of character promulgation is supposed to be one of their fortes and has even been a feature of their marketing campaign for every game, the rest of the mess isn't terribly surprising.
The suicide team concept isn't broken, it's how the loyalty missions were pretty much the same thing over and over, and more particularly, how they handled the aftermath in 3 that's the problem.
That the time between games never improved the situation or led to new conventions being built to handle that context and application to the greater universe and story arc means they simply don't have what it takes to do what they IMPLIED they were going to do. (and, in fact, have not done at all.)
They've been able to import the weapon code and path flags from 2 pretty effortlessly, with only aesthetic changes for modularity and a couple tweaks here and there for playability. The game's architecture isn't all that different, but there's no allowance for the kind of changes they themselves created. It's simply bad design wrapped around a bad story. There's no other way to put it.
[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;34574928]In my opinion it will be bad considering that ME2 is now going to be a bit of a waste of our time. [sp]Why add character development if you're going to piss it away?[/sp][/QUOTE]
Still, Shadow Broker
[QUOTE=doommarine23;34575605]Probably after.[/QUOTE]
Then I'm not so late to the ME party!
I can still get a Garrus or Miranda litograph!
;__; yes.
[QUOTE=Caragolpe;34575689]Then I'm not so late to the ME party!
I can still get a Garrus or Miranda litograph!
;__; yes.[/QUOTE]
Personally I'm not even gonna bother with litographs.
Posters of all the ME Characters though? :pwn:
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