Who else thinks they should have used this song for the credits?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibRMmLlLz64[/media]
I'm actually starting to feel emotionally drained by this game's ending. :suicide:
[QUOTE=TheLolrus;35093885]I'm actually starting to feel emotionally drained by this game's ending. :suicide:[/QUOTE]
See, now you're just like the Galaxy at the end!
[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;35093878]oh yeah and this guy was pretty dumb as well[/QUOTE]
I hate characters that run away from fights and then tell me how useless I am
Mass Effect 3's ending in a nutshell
[IMG]http://emmasthing.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ice-cream-crying300.jpg[/IMG]
Anybody know where to find the ME3 soundtrack? Origin downloaded it, but I don't know what folder it's in.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;35093692]I'd be fine with this, but the plot is basically giving really no hints to this or extremely slim ones so its an obscure shot in the dark that fucks people over.[/QUOTE]
There's some... plausible theory BSN came up with (yah, I lurk there):
WALL OF TEXT CONTAINING SPOILERS AHEAD:
[sp]
In defense of the Hallucination/Indoctrination theory: the BioWare/Player Indoctrination Theory
With the assistance of my peers throughout the rest of this thread, I have collated a series of facts that I would like to present to the community as being evidence for a a priori intention for the endings of ME3. Some of this information will not be new to a lot of you, and it may seem downright strange to a lot of you. It does require a strong and disorienting amount of suspension of disbelief, so if you cannot engage in this type of thought process, I encourage you to skip over this post. :) It will hurt your brain. Or make you think that I'm crazy. Likely both. (I'm okay with either.)
With the assistance of countless others' highly important observations in this thread, I sumbit to you that possibility the endings of ME3 represent the highest form of the metagaming experience. The highest form of BioWare's "giving the player choice that matters, from ME1 to ME3". The highest form of player interaction that we have yet seen from a video game. This has never before been attempted by a company, and it represents the ballsiest dedication to story and lore that may exist.
I believe that the endings may be indicative of BioWare attempting to allow the player the real-time experience of what indoctrination would be like. This theory explains (in a highly weird, impossible, and completely insane way) all of the missing pieces in the hallucination sequence, and also explains BioWare's real-world actions (such as complete silence since the fan sh*tstorm broke in response to the endings).
If you have not been keeping up with the thread, or if you have not read Byne's/Kitten Tactics/Turtlicious' amalgamation of all of the evidence we have accumulated for the originial hallucination theory on page 1, then I would urge you to do so before you read any more of this post. Due to time constraints, I won't be posting all of the evidences that we have located in this post to confirm or contradict this theory: I leave it in your capable and self-aware hands to attain this information yourself. I am posting this as an add-on to page 1, as I don't think it was properly represented there in its entire grand scope.
So, to the meat of the issue:
We have already established as much evidence as we can that 'proves' that Shepard is either hallucinating/dreaming just prior to/immediately after he runs into Harbinger's beam/Conduit. The hallucination/dream sequence has been quite well fleshed out, with a lot of compelling environmental evidence to support it (again, please see page 1 for further analysis). I am going to use this particular vehicle of suspension of disbelief to propose that BioWare's intention during this sequence is to flag the player with as many markers as they can: This current reality playing before your eyes (the Citadel, the Catalyst, TIM, Anderson) is a reflection of Shepard. It is the product of his/her mind. The meeting with the Catalyst may or may not be rooted in reality; they may meet in some metalphysical dimension, or Shepard may just hallucinate the entire thing. Either way, this theory would argue that it essentially doesn't matter, because what truly matters is the role of the player in this sequence. Your role. The scene is set in a way that urges the player to become aware of things just not being right, of being a place that mirrors (literally) Shepard's experiences throughout the game. The reality presented on the Citadel is an amalgamation of archetypes of every thing Shepard has seen in the series, which this theory challenges the player to understand as being a direct prompt from BioWare to understand that what is truly happening during this scene is all within Shepard's mind. His/her reality. Under her/his control.
Understanding that the reality on the Citadel as being a cerebral concoction that is entirely of Shepard's creation is important when we arrive upon the Crucible. It becomes a vital understanding when we are faced with these three, seemingly bizarre and unexpected choices that the Catalyst gives us. This theory submits that BioWare is asking the player to actively question EVERYTHING that happens once Shepard runs into Harbinger's beam. The cost of not questioning, or making the right choice even if you do?
Real-time player indoctrination. Shepard's literal death.
Think about it carefully. We arrive on the Crucible, and are faced with an archetype of manipulation, the Catalyst. Taking the form of a child that has come to represent everything that is horrendous about the Reapers to Shepard, the Catalyst/Harbinger provides Shepard with three strange and disorienting choices. He first presents Shepard with the option of Destroy, making swift and empty assertations about how it is the wrong choice because it would kill all synthetic life and Shepard herself/himself. At its surface, this seems like the renegade/chaos option, and is even insidiously portrayed in Renegade Red, a direct nod to the Player himself/herself. Directly appealing to your experiences with how the game works. He then goes on at great length about the Control and Synthesis options, portraying Control as the blue paragon/order option. Again, directly appealing to the Player. He argues that Control is the best option, implies that Shepard is the new Catalyst, and leaves us to contemplate the possibility that we could use it to try and save the people we love; after all, we are Shepard, and we would never become like TIM. Synthesis is the last option explored, and it is portrayed as a compromise or as being the Brave New Hope for the galaxy. I have a suspicion that Synthesis may actually be the 'perfect' choice, but that is for another theory. :) (If you're curious, read about the tech-singularity lore within the game, and research humes spork's posts about the singularity within this thread.) Either way, Synthesis smacks of strangeness because it seems so inherently Reaper-oriented. As though it were servicing the Reapers' philosophy more strongly than the other two options.
This moment, when you are standing there, agonizing over your choice? This is your indoctrination moment. This is where, it could be (fantastically and insanely) argued that this is the moment when indoctrination and all of its insidious power becomes as real as it possibly CAN be to the Player. Think about it! We stand there. We agonize. We freak out about the ridiculous choices, and we wonder (like Shepard would) why we just can't ARUGE with the Catalyst (like Shepard would). And then, as this reality seems to be the only way forward (much like how indoctrination presents a version of reality to the indoctrinated that he/she sees as being the ONLY REAL OPTION -- echoes of TIM, Kai Leng, Saren here), we begin to accept it. Tremulously, we start to make our choice.
If you choose Control, then you, the player -- the one who moves through the game though Shepard's eyes; every choice s/he has ever made in the game has been directly because of you -- have been indoctrinated. It may have been because you thought you could save your crew, your LI, or that you really could gain perfect Control over the Reapers because you are Shepard. Regardless, you have been duped. Indoctrinated by the game. Your slow exposure to the Reapers in 2007 culminates to this final choice -- complete and free player agency and determination.
If you choose Synthesis, you face a fate similar to that of Control. It's debatable to me at this point as to whether or not you have chosen to fulfill the Reapers' purpose, but indoctrination is still a heavy possibility with this one. The only reason that I state this with any certainty is because, like the ending we see with Control, Shepard is dead at the final credits.
If you choose Destroy, then the Player Indoctrination Theory submits that this is you, the player, deciding whether or not Shepard overcomes the indoctrination attempt being rained upon him/her by Harbinger/the Catalyst. If you decide this option, and if you have enough EMS to ensure that Shepard has enough real-world time to get through the indoctrination attempt/hallucination -- Shepard lives. We see him/her breathing in the rubble of London streets at the end of the game. Shepard has defied indoctrination. You, yourself, have defied indoctrination.
Does this theory make sense? Maybe not. When we consider BioWare's real-world motivations and risks (profit, losing a large fanbase over the disgusting wretchedness of the endings as they currently exist), then the theory is hard to support. But if, for just one moment, we can let ourselves believe that BioWare may just have lived up to their celebrated philiosophy of Player Choice and Player Acutalization, then this theory becomes awe-inspiring. Is it possible? Could BioWare have sacrificed the potential for safe profits in order to bring the most insane and beautiful gaming experience of all time to its fans? The most unprecedented example of player immersion of our times? Would BioWare have truly allowed the risk for profit and angering a serious amount of their fan population in pure deference to the story, and its lore?
It may explain BioWare's silence on the matter, until "more people have played the game", or until all regions have the game. It may explain Jess M.'s twitter about fans "reacting before having all of the facts". It may.... just may explain these super sh*tty endings in a way that would make BioWare the God of RPGs.
Is it likely? No. Am I reaching, insanely? Yes.
But is it possible?
Yes.
[/sp]
Credit to [b]lookingglassmind[/b], whoever that is.
Forgot the link: [url]http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/81[/url]
[QUOTE=Arachnidus;35093922]Anybody know where to find the ME3 soundtrack? Origin downloaded it, but I don't know what folder it's in.[/QUOTE]
By default
C:\Program Files (x86)\Origin Games\Mass Effect 3\Bonus
You'll find a digital art book, some wallpapers, the soundtrack, a Normandy lithograph and a comic there.
Wow, some dude used a trainer/save editor to get more credits in SP and got permabanned
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wBfyf.jpg[/IMG]
Nobrandminda on BSN said it the best, I think. Wall-o-text, but worth the read.
[sp] The community seems to be split on this, with most people disliking the endings, and a handful of people who say they are fine, and the arguments about what makes an ending "good" or "bad" tend to miss the point. In my mind, the biggest problem with the ending isn't that it is disappointing or poorly writting (it is, but I'll get to that in a minute). The problem isn't the tone, the ending could have been happy or sad (preferably one or the other depending on choices, but again, I'll get to that in a minute), and it would have worked either way.
The problem is that the ending is simply wrong. It is incorrect. It is simply not what the series was building up to.
This is a long post, but that's the long and short of it, so stop reading there if you want.
It's like if Return of the Jedi had the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssy, because in essence, that's exactly what happened. At the end of Return of the Jedi, Luke opened up a portal to another plane of existance where a some illdefined God-like being told him "Your friends are screwed, but you can sacrifice yourself to save them." He did it, and that's it. Roll credits. We don't get to see how it all turned out, or how anyone reacted to his sacrifice, and we don't get any explainations as to why that just happened. We just see a wierd looking explosion, and maybe one reaction shot. The End.
But let's get to specifics. Since this will walk through the entire ending, don't read this if you want any surprises.
Let's start with Shepard getting knocked out by Harbinger. That was Harbinger right? I mean, they all look the same to me. Anyway, Shep gets knocked out and from this point on it's never really made clear what's going on. The first time this happened to me, I let the three husks kill me because I thought it was like the nuclear bomb scene from Call of Duty, or a dream sequence or something. I supose between Reaper Indoctrination and Protean Beacons screwing with your mind, this series is already prone to wild theorys of "Everything after ____ is just happening in Shepard's head," but the presentation here makes the idea so plausible it's distracting from what's actually going on.
In the next bit, we join Anderson on the Citadel, and again, I really don't know how that worked. Was he just slightly ahead of us? No. We would have been able to see him. Was he behind us? No, he gets to the Crusable controls before we do. Was he take a completely different route to get there? Maybe, but I didn't see any other paths.
Whatever, the Illusive man shows up and you talk him down. I liked the way this bit mirrored the ending to the first game.
Then Anderson dies. No complaints about that, I think everyone saw this coming. Honestly, I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did. He's the mentor figure, he has to die, it's like a trope or something.
But here's where things really start to go wrong. We get beamed up to... somewhere and meet the Star Kid, and well, someone in another thread put it best:
"The Catalyst starts going on and on about how the created will always kill the creator. The most critical moment in the game, and yet, there's no option to jerk that kid up by his holographic hair and say, "Bulls***! Look out there. Geth and Quarian, fighting side by side. Look at the Normandy, look at Joker and EDI. We're making it work. Maybe it will last, maybe it won't, but who the f*** are you deny us the chance to try?""
This right here, is my second biggest problem with the ending. We finally have an explaination for the Reapers, and it completely contradicts the theme of the series, or at least this game in particular. Getting the Quarians and the Geth to work together is, to me, the defining moment of the game. It is also the only "pure" victory Shepard ever gets during the main storyline, that is to say, it's the only victory without a "but" attached to it. Shepard escapes the Sol system, but Earth falls. He brokers a peace between the Krogan and the Turians, but in doing so shuns the Salarians or dooms the Krogan. He finds the Prothean beacon on Thesia, but... you get the idea.
And also, where does the Star Kid himself fit into that little theory of his? Is he the creator or the created? If the Reapers have been faithfully carrying out the will of their creator for untold millions of years, doesn't that completely contradict what he's saying?
And now you have your choice, and my biggest issue with the ending. There are so many problems here I don't really know where to start. I guess I'll start with a very simple question: Why does the Star Kid give a damn how many war assets I have? The whole thrust of the game, get more resources to get a better ending, makes sense... right up until this point. Dude's going to shut his ears and go "La la la" just because we didn't want to spend a few hours scanning uncharted star systems? Really?
There's also the fact that one big decision to decide the fate of the galaxy just doesn't cut it anymore. You might be thinking "but that's always how it is, there's always the one big choice at the end, and it doesn't really matter what you did previously." That may have been the case in Mass Effect 1, but that was five years ago now. ME2 did a phenominal job of making it feel like all of your choices mattered in the end. You still had the one "big" choice sure (destroy or preserve the base) but you also had all of the decisions about how to prepare for the mission and how to go about infiltrating the Base, all of which determined your level of success. There was clear cause and effect. Upgrade the Normandy to survive the assault. Choose the right man for the right job. Here you just have some vague number that determines which choices you are going to be presented with for some reason that is never, ever, made clear.
And then there are the choices themselves. Bioware says there are 16 possible endings, but really there are only 5 with slight variations, and even that is being generous since all five of them basically boil down to "Shepard sacrifices himself to save the galaxy" unless you have enough War Assets (again, why??) in which case you get an easter egg hinting that Shepard survived after all.
First of all, this may be nitpicky, and depending on who you romanced, you might not have noticed it, but you see flashbacks to several people during the sacrifice and there's a reasonable chance that you'll miss out on your romantic partner. It's always Joker, Anderson, Kaiden/Ashley, and Liara, so unless you happened to romance one of them, Shepard's final thought isn't of his loved one (or loved ones if you romanced multiple people along the way).
The ending doesn't offer any closure whatsoever. It's not abundently clear who lived and who died since it's never really made clear what exactly that green/blue/red explosion does. For all we know, Joker and company really are the only survivers of the assault on earth (how did the squad get back to the Normandy anyway?) and they repopulated uh... Earth? Where did they land anyway? Even if they survived, with the Mass Relays destroyed, it seems like the entire military strength of the the known Galaxy is stuck on Earth. How exactly is that going to work out? I wonder who in their right mind would choose the "destroy all technology" ending, since the Kid flat out tells you that it will destroy the Geth (implying that EDI would die too).
We get the little epilogue with Buzz Aldrin (check the credits, that's him) talking to a kid, so we know it worked out... somehow. As always, the ending is vague about the details. I'm not sure if this is meant to be taken as a sequel hook, I kind of doubt it since the message afterwards literally tells you that Shepard's adventure will continue via ME3 DLC. In any case, this is a very poor way of conveying the information that the galaxy went on without Shepard. Mass Effect is a character driven story line. I don't want to see how his children's children remember Shepard, I want to see how his friends and allies remember him/her.
So it's not just Shepard's sacrifice that's the problem, it's everything surrounding it. There is nothing worse in fiction than when something tries and fails to bring closure. You can bring closure to a storyline, or you can leave it open to interpretation, but the ending tried to do both, and in doing so, fails.[/sp]
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35093948]Nobrandminda on BSN said it the best, I think. Wall-o-text, but worth the read.
][/QUOTE]
Ow, can you post the link so I don't have to read that much on painful contrasts?
[QUOTE=mac338;35093967]Ow, can you post the link so I don't have to read that much on painful contrasts?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9720265/1[/url]
[QUOTE=Starship;35093947]Wow, some dude used a trainer/save editor to get more credits in SP and got permabanned
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wBfyf.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
This reminds me. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVgwvj8N8ew]The Best Gamers[/url]'s review got a Copyright Claim from EA, and EA is trying to get it taken off of YouTube.
Amazing, isn't it? You criticize grorious Bioware game? End of rine.
[QUOTE=Starship;35093947]Wow, some dude used a trainer/save editor to get more credits in SP and got permabanned
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wBfyf.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
implying thebestgamers make serious reviews
I'm just going to be on the safe side and say the ending is shit and Bioware's really outdone themselves this time until they actually tell us they have a [I]free[/I] DLC or patch that gives us a "proper" ending. People really start to grasp at straws when something falls flat of their expectations, and Bioware's just hoping you guys see it as, "something bigger."
[QUOTE=JesterUK;35093895]I hate characters that run away from fights and then tell me how useless I am[/QUOTE]
That fight was fucking dumb as hell but at least it was a nice catalyst to get you motivated to take him down a notch. Can't say I liked his aesthetic or the fact that he has a fucking [b]sword[/b]
I feel depressed about the endings.
Not because of the endings themselves, but rather how little sense all of them make and how disappointing they were. I wanted an ending with closure, not this shit that leaves so many loose ends I can't even call it an ending anymore. I feel like I have more questions now than I did halfway through the story.
[QUOTE=Zet;35089416]If it is paid DLC, it will be either cheap or free for people who have the Collector's Edition.[/QUOTE]
just my 2 cent, i dont mind about paid dlc, i even bought from ashes, but fi this dlc contains the real end, there is no way in hell they could make it paid, even EA are not that bad.
[QUOTE=JimmyA;35093979]implying thebestgamers make serious reviews[/QUOTE]
Minecraft.
You underestimate the power of greed.
What was wrong with the ending? I felt it fit nicely with the depressing, bleak theme that my game had built up, though I got the worst possible one so if it's any different if you have more EMS then idk
They're all pretty depressing. When I work my ass off over the course of three games I kinda hope for a happy ending. Knowing that it counted for shit just ruined it.
[QUOTE=TheLolrus;35094024]You underestimate the power of greed.[/QUOTE]
Besides, they got us hooked; all Bioware has to do now to get us to happily buy up DLC for Mass Effect 3 is imply there may be something to make a better ending. Given how eager everyone on both BSN and here are to get DLC (even paid) that will give a "proper" ending, they apparently succeeeded.
[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/true.PNG[/img]
I feel like reposting that stuff from BSN I posted on previous page, in the form of link. Just so people know where to refer when they want to talk about crazy theories. [url]http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/81[/url]
Anyone else find it odd that the Mass Effect overture never played? Unless I totally missed it, the ME1 theme was never used.
I heard faint echoes of it mixed into some of the game.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35094057]Anyone else find it odd that the Mass Effect overture never played? Unless I totally missed it, the ME1 theme was never used.[/QUOTE]
Really? I thought it was used somewhere...
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35094057]Anyone else find it odd that the Mass Effect overture never played? Unless I totally missed it, the ME1 theme was never used.[/QUOTE]
I just noticed it before you posted, but yeah thats quite odd.
Did ME2 have it at all?
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