[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35291181]Selective breeding is not Natural Selection. Natural selection relies on nature removing any offspring that are unsuitable (They die before they reproduce). Selective breeding relies on us choosing the parents to produce the offspring we desire. That's quite a significant difference.
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
Really?[/QUOTE]
Natural selection kills off the dudes who don't fit best to their environment.
Human induced selection kills off the dudes who don't fit best to their environment.
human induced selection is still natural selection.
[QUOTE=Scar;35291206]Why the hell are you guys..
You know what?
I should go[/QUOTE]
[B]BIOLOGY![/B]
[IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-science.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35291181]Selective breeding is not Natural Selection. Natural selection relies on nature removing any offspring that are unsuitable (They die before they reproduce). Selective breeding relies on us choosing the parents to produce the offspring we desire. That's quite a significant difference.[/QUOTE]
There is a miniscule difference. The difference between natural selection and selective beeding is that more offspring survive with selective breeding and changes become noticable much more quickly. That's it. Totally and completely.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;35291225]Natural selection kills off the dudes who don't fit best to their environment.
Human induced selection kills off the dudes who don't fit best to their environment.
human induced selection is still natural selection.[/QUOTE]
It's not "killing off" the dudes that don't fit best.
It's ensuring that the ones that don't fit never come into existence by selecting parents to provide the optimum offspring.
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35291234]There is a miniscule difference. The difference between natural selection and selective beeding is that more offspring survive with selective breeding and changes become noticable much more quickly. That's it. Totally and completely.[/QUOTE]
No. In Natural Selection the "Selection" occurs in the offspring. In Artificial Selection the "Selection" occurs in the parents.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35291235]It's not "killing off" the dudes that don't fit best.
It's ensuring that the ones that don't fit never come into existence by selecting parents to provide the optimum offspring.[/QUOTE]
Okay.
The parents best suited to their environments are more likely to reproduce.
The parents best suited to their environments will reproduce.
The only difference is timescale. The end result is the same.
By that I of course don't mean that our cows could have arisen naturally, no. I mean the process is the same, and the result is that the ones best suited to their surroundings will survive.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35291224]Fields are an artifical environment too. They're designed to provide optimum conditions for cows to grow and reproduce in.
Cows wouldn't stand a chance in the wild.[/QUOTE]
You do know cows get loose all the time right? The most common death for a loose cow us humans rnning them down or shooting them. Or dehydration. They don't get killed by wild animals all that much unless a pack of coyotes or some shit want to test theirluck.
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35291235]
No. In Natural Selection the "Selection" occurs in the offspring. In Artificial Selection the "Selection" occurs in the parents.[/QUOTE]
If cows evolve in the wild to run faster because the slowest are picked off by predators, and they evolve to run faster in captivity because some bored farmers make them race the outcome is the same. The difference?
Time.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35291181]Selective breeding is not Natural Selection. Natural selection relies on nature removing any offspring that are unsuitable (They die before they reproduce). Selective breeding relies on us choosing the parents to produce the offspring we desire. That's quite a significant difference.
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
Really?[/QUOTE]There's no difference in the genetic things that happen when artificial or natural selection happens, Charles Darwin used selective breeding/artificial selection to show the wider process of natural sleection. It's only "artifical" to disginuish between the usual selection and us having an influence, there is no difference underneath it all, it's just a name, nothing special happens, we are using nature to our advantage. If you were talking about us actually altering DNA in a lab or something you'd be correct but we're manipulating the NATURAL ENVIRONMENT to our gains. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE apart from us. It does not make the outcome artificial, there is no genetic difference, if you took a dog and compared it to a dog that just so happened to evolve in the same way because of various enviromental factors there would be no genetic difference between them. Artificial selection is just part of a wider process. The only artificial life we have created is the one I linked earlier and that's according to science not your weird understanding of the word artificial.
Cow Effect, new game by BioWare, inspired by Facepunch.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35291181]
Really?[/QUOTE]
With some minor adaptation to a natural habitat I could imagine them walking the slopes on some mountains and eat grass all day, like many other animals do.
Yeah I'm feeling this discussion is so far off the rails it's ended up somewhere on the bottom of a large ocean.
So guys, that Mass Effect 3 ending sucked right?!?!
I don't even like Mass Effect, I'm just really mad about cows and dogs.
[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_E8BpJEni77I/SqfDeIN30AI/AAAAAAAAKdk/J_lD7JFf7gY/s400/reallysadcow.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=EcksDee;35291225]Natural selection kills off the dudes who don't fit best to their environment.
Human induced selection kills off the dudes who don't fit best to their environment.
human induced selection is still natural selection.[/QUOTE]
Not quite.
Humans killing other humans who are for whatever reason unable to defend themselves due to some discrepancy that puts them at a disadvantage would be natural selection if that disadvantage was related genetically.
Like if there were was a war between two kingdoms, and people with a specific defect (like a poor Achilles tendon or a weak immune system) joined either side, and died in greater number, then yeah that would be natural selection.
It would be similar to the way certain animals die off when they get into fights or get sick.
Because of this you can predict the outcome of natural selection, but the change that is made to an overall group is determined by the scenario and environment, and other random factors.
Induced selection implies that there is a plan in place to achieve a desirable outcome. This is artificial, as in order to get to the end of this path, all the variables were taken into account and either controlled or neutralized.
This is not the same thing as a bird evolving a different type of beak which is better at cracking open seashells where other blunt beaked birds in the same niche die off.
Completed a gold...first try. So thrilled right now.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;35291359]I don't even like Mass Effect, I'm just really mad about cows and dogs.
[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_E8BpJEni77I/SqfDeIN30AI/AAAAAAAAKdk/J_lD7JFf7gY/s400/reallysadcow.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Well the thing with Dogs is; they are really just a bunch of pussies. I mean think about it: in order for a dog to be intimidating they need a pack. Cats don't need a pack of cats to be better hunters. They learn to stalk their prey silently and do so without making obnoxiously loud barking noises.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;35291332]Yeah I'm feeling this discussion is so far off the rails it's ended up somewhere on the bottom of a large ocean.
So guys, that Mass Effect 3 ending sucked right?!?![/QUOTE]
That's what started this.
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
Quickly, everyone hate on multiplayer.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35290954]Key word: Unnaturally. Unnatural = Artificial. It's that simple.
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
Due to centuries of selective breeding, one could argue this way.
Same for cows, pigs, sheep etc. I consider these "Artificial" species due to the fact that we've altered their evolutionary course.[/QUOTE]
oh my god you are such a fucking moron you have no fucking idea what you are on about
by synthetic it means fucking synthetic like the fucking geth ffs it means fucking robots that what organic life has made will destroy it!
[QUOTE=Framperton;35291404]Well the thing with Dogs is; they are really just a bunch of pussies. I mean think about it: in order for a dog to be intimidating they need a pack. Cats don't need a pack of cats to be better hunters. They learn to stalk their prey silently and do so without making obnoxiously loud barking noises.[/QUOTE]
Dogs bark to get the attention of humans. They're doing what they can to mimic our speech. When dogs go hunting they are incredibly quiet.
[QUOTE=jiggu;35291414]That's what started this.
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
Quickly, everyone hate on multiplayer.[/QUOTE]
Well I think Multiplayer is pretty fun. It's hoard mode but I really enjoy the random objectives getting people to run all over the place.
I think I'm in the same boat with upgrades though. I enjoy the idea of random chance in terms of what weapons you get, but you should be able to pay for weapon upgrades past that like in SP.
[QUOTE=jiggu;35291414]That's what started this.
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
Quickly, everyone hate on multiplayer.[/QUOTE]
Multiplayer was the pleasent surprise in ME3, everyone thought it would uck but it's pretty damn good.
I would like weapon rates with a greater chance of unlocking a weapon, and a few more maps. Missions would be coold too where you have to advance along rather than holding an area. Other tan that it's great.
Does anyone know how to extract an image from a PDF? The ME3 art book has some great images that could be used as wallpapers but I got no idea how to get them. I can right click and it gives me a "copy image" option but that doesn't work it seems.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35291443]Dogs bark to get the attention of humans. They're doing what they can to mimic out speech. When dogs go hunting they are incredibly quiet.[/QUOTE]
Dogs bark amongst themselves too, and in fact have fewer vocalizations than cats. A Cat's vocalization is actually uniquely adapted to mimic the cry of a child or infant, so they do that better than dogs too.
Also dogs are fare more clumsy, hence why they are far more successful when in packs. A cat does not need such trivial things.
But moving on...
Dogs are master race. Cats suck ass. I don't like cats.
Edit: Domestic cats that is. I like lions, pumas and stuff.
[QUOTE=H4wkeye;35291499]Dogs are master race. Cats suck ass. I don't like cats.
Edit: Domestic cats that is. I like lions, pumas and stuff.[/QUOTE]
Alright, framing it in the ending of mass effect 2: a cat would make the jump from the collector ship to the Normandy. A dog would slip off and fall to its death.
[QUOTE=Framperton;35291514]Alright, framing it in the ending of mass effect 2: a cat would make the jump from the collector ship to the Normandy. A dog would slip off and fall to its death.[/QUOTE][img]http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m031n6vnFr1qzfgd1o1_500.jpg[/img]
u wana go, bro?
[QUOTE=H4wkeye;35291499]Dogs are master race. Cats suck ass. I don't like cats.
Edit: Domestic cats that is. I like lions, pumas and stuff.[/QUOTE]
Cats are awesome, my cats sleep in my bed every morning.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;35291332]Yeah I'm feeling this discussion is so far off the rails it's ended up somewhere on the bottom of a large ocean.
So guys, that Mass Effect 3 ending sucked right?!?![/QUOTE]
Eh, it's more then the ending if you ask me. The whole game was far from perfect, in my opinion.
I mean, most sidequests are all boring wither "go there, scan that planet, go back", or "survive for x minutes on this multiplayer map".
Then, there's fewer dialog choices, through the game, and most of the time you can't chose what to say, only how you say it.
Most animations and facial expressions also seem pretty bad, even when compared to ME2.
But yeah, I'm mainly posting to stop these biological debates
[QUOTE=jiggu;35291537]Cats are awesome, my cats sleep in my bed every morning.[/QUOTE]
So does my dog.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/r9TMv.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;35291534][img]http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m031n6vnFr1qzfgd1o1_500.jpg[/img]
u wana go, bro?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I will. Once I get back home I'll construct cardboard N7 armor for my cat, and he will kick the crap out of a shrimpy pug dog.
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=H4wkeye;35291606]So does my dog.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/r9TMv.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
But look how much space he/she takes up. Ridiculous.
Yeah how can you sleep with him there? Though he's cute.
[QUOTE=Framperton;35291485]Dogs bark amongst themselves too, and in fact have fewer vocalizations than cats. A Cat's vocalization is actually uniquely adapted to mimic the cry of a child or infant, so they do that better than dogs too.
Also dogs are fare more clumsy, hence why they are far more successful when in packs. A cat does not need such trivial things.
But moving on...[/QUOTE]
Let's not get into an arguement about how dogs are far more intelligent and loyal than cats and how cats are very picky and relatively bad at hunting anything other than rats and birds.
This is the Mass Effect thread after all and talking about how inferior cats are to dogs would just be off topic.
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