Mass Effect Megathread: DING DONG BANNU edition - Games

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35319194]THE ENDING IS OBJECTIVELY BAD! I don't care if you like it, or just don't dislike it. That doesn't chang the fact that the ending fails on a thematic, structural and characteristic level. [url]http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/hulk-explains-why-we-should-stop-it-with-the-hero-journey-shit/[/url] [url]http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/[/url] [url]http://www.themetagames.com/2012/03/why-you-enjoy-art-and-one-problem-with.html[/url] You can like the ending all you want, but you should accept that it's objectively bad. I love Alpha Protocol, I play through it consantly because I love it so much, it still has fucking terrible gameplay and many gamebreaking bugs. I accept that it's bad.[/QUOTE] No, that's bullshit. There's no way of saying something is Objectively "Good" or "Bad". It's completely subjective, a matter of opinion. Some people look at these old shitty B-movies and think "Hell this is fucking awesome". They're no more right or wrong than anyone else.

[QUOTE=noneshallpass;35319157]So that's what liara is looking at[/QUOTE] it's symbolic man look at it this way [sp]shep died for the galaxy so she's seeing him everywhere, even when it's fucking terrifying[/sp] [editline]27th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35319240]No, that's bullshit. There's no way of saying something is Objectively "Good" or "Bad". It's completely subjective, a matter of opinion. Some people look at these old shitty B-movies and think "Hell this is fucking awesome". They're no more right or wrong than anyone else.[/QUOTE] Actually, it's perfectly possible to have objective flaws. For instance, those B-Movies are likely to have plot-holes, which are undeniable even under the premise of somehow enjoying them. So unless you enjoy actual, gaping, undeniable flaws, Janus there is completely right.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35319240]No, that's bullshit. There's no way of saying something is Objectively "Good" or "Bad". It's completely subjective, a matter of opinion. Some people look at these old shitty B-movies and think "Hell this is fucking awesome". They're no more right or wrong than anyone else.[/QUOTE] NO IT ISN'T! FUCK! You clearly know nothing about theming, characterisation or the basics of structure. Practically every accepted practice is thrown out the window in the ending, something only the greatest of writers can do well, and often fail at. There ARE objective flaws with Mass Effect 3's ending, from the plot holes, circular logic, tautologies used to justify the circular logic, the fact that half the information we're given has already been disproven by the series, the deus ex machina, the lack of resolution. Practically eveything about the ending falls apart under even the slightest scrutiny ON AN OBJECTIVE LEVEL. Nothing on that list is based on opinion.

[QUOTE=Cone;35319265]Actually, it's perfectly possible to have objective flaws. For instance, those B-Movies are likely to have plot-holes, which are undeniable even under the premise of somehow enjoying them. So unless you enjoy actual, gaping, undeniable flaws, Janus there is completely right.[/QUOTE] Thing is I don't see any actual plot holes in ME3's ending. There's a LOT of ambiguity and I can see why that would annoy people (Personally I don't mind ambiguity if it allows personal interpretation/using your imagination as to what happens next. It always happens at the end of series). Maybe that's kind of lazy - Leaving it wide open instead of explaining it fully - But as for an undeniable, gaping flaw? I don't see it.

[QUOTE=Cone;35319265]it's symbolic man look at it this way [sp]shep died for the galaxy so she's seeing him everywhere, even when it's fucking terrifying[/sp] [/QUOTE] That sounds like how religions start to spread. Space jesurd. [editline]27th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35319331]NO IT ISN'T! FUCK! [/QUOTE] This line makes me accept all of your arguments. Except no, it doesn't.

So is this new pack in MP usefull or it just gives 10 usual items from recruit pack?

[QUOTE=cagoBHuK;35319380]So is this new pack in MP usefull or it just gives 10 usual items from recruit pack?[/QUOTE] Woah, new pack? When was this?

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35319340][B]Thing is I don't see any actual plot holes in ME3's ending.[/B] There's a LOT of ambiguity and I can see why that would annoy people (Personally I don't mind ambiguity if it allows personal interpretation/using your imagination as to what happens next. It always happens at the end of series). Maybe that's kind of lazy - Leaving it wide open instead of explaining it fully - But as for an undeniable, gaping flaw? I don't see it.[/QUOTE] - What makes them think sythetics will wipe out organics? It's imposible for a precedent to be set. - Why make sythetics to destroy organics as a solution to sythetics destroying organics? Why not just destroy the sythetics? - Why build the Mass Relays and Citadel specifically to guide organics to a point where they must be destroyed? - The Geth and Quarians can be made to work together, no sythetics are ever shown to be actively hostile, only reacting to organic threats. - Why use syntheics to kill organics if you're supposed to be protecting organics against THOSE VERY SAME SYNTHETICS! - Why even allow organic life reach the point where they can even create synthetics? - Why do they harvest organics in Reapers? To preserve their DNA? - If so why use those very same Reapers to wage a costly inter-galactic war? And that's only based on the shit from the 3rd game.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35319165]I dunno, the same explanation is given for the citadel [sp]And Thessia[/sp] so...[/QUOTE] The Citadel being a hand-me-down is known from the start and the scope of this was covered fully in ME1. Nothing in ME1 hinted that the statues on Ilos weren't Prothean And ME2 poured more fuel on that with its silly edit of the first game's beacon visions and the Ilos statues to foreshadow what the Collectors had been. And what do you mean about[sp]the Asari homeworld[/sp]?

[QUOTE=gudman;35319348]This line makes me accept all of your arguments. Except no, it doesn't.[/QUOTE] That was an expression of frustration. The points which followed it were meant to show my point. Plus the 3 articles I posted previously.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35319448]That was an expression of frustration. The points which followed it were meant to show my point. Plus the 3 articles I posted previously.[/QUOTE] I see. Though I lied to you, I have the same point of view on the trainwreck (I meant, ME3 ending).

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35319395]Woah, new pack? When was this?[/QUOTE] Yeah it just gives you 10 equipment stuff. So a bigger one of the crate that was before the Premium Veteran crate that only gave you a handful of equipment. Not really worth the 33K price tag.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35319395]Woah, new pack? When was this?[/QUOTE] I entered the game and there was new pack, 33000 credits. I didnt buy it, spending credits on Spectre packs to get Asari Adept... [img]http://i.imgur.com/BTkBv.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35319432]- What makes them think sythetics will wipe out organics? It's imposible for a precedent to be set. [B]We don't know what happened in past cycles, this is possibly justified through their experiences and this cycle is merely an exception (Thus a new "Solution" being required)[/B] - Why make sythetics to destroy organics as a solution to sythetics destroying organics? Why not just destroy the sythetics? [B]Gabe explained this pretty well (I think) in the PA post I linked to before, "The AI who created the Reapers is not killing all organic life. He is actually “pruning” it so as to avoid the destruction of all organic life. By removing the most evolved species and preserving them inside the Reapers he is saving all the still developing organic life. From his point of view it is either go in every 50k years and absorb the most advanced civilizations so that organic life will still exist or do nothing and watch Synthetics stamp out all organic life forever. "[/B] - Why build the Mass Relays and Citadel specifically to guide organics to a point where they must be destroyed? [B]Considering that the Catalyst (Citadel) MADE the reapers, it must have existed beforehand. Maybe the same could apply to the Mass Relays? Or the Reapers (Which, in a way, are benevolent to an extent in that they want organic life to continue) are helping organic life become technologically advanced for their benefit. Seems odd, but it's not a particularly major flaw.[/B] - The Geth and Quarians can be made to work together, no sythetics are ever shown to be actively hostile, only reacting to organic threats. [B]Could be the exception not the rule.[/B] - Why use syntheics to kill organics if you're supposed to be protecting organics against THOSE VERY SAME SYNTHETICS! [B]To protect the future of organic life throughout the Galaxy.[/B] - Why even allow organic life reach the point where they can even create synthetics? [B]You're repeating questions now[/B] - Why do they harvest organics in Reapers? To preserve their DNA? [B]Yes, they give them a new "Form" so they continue to exist while protecting the future of organic life in the galaxy[/B] - If so why use those very same Reapers to wage a costly inter-galactic war? [B]Er. To prune organic life. What kind of question is this? Did you even listen to what the catalyst was saying? They don't just wage war for no reason, they do it to destroy all current advanced civilizations.[/B] And that's only based on the shit from the 3rd game.[/QUOTE] Answered your questions with the way I see it. Like I said, ambiguous, but they're not exactly gaping flaws.

[QUOTE=cagoBHuK;35319581]I entered the game and there was new pack, 33000 credits. I didnt buy it, spending credits on Spectre packs to get Asari Adept... [img]http://i.imgur.com/BTkBv.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Should be Wumbo

[QUOTE=Zeos;35319228] Also, completely off topic, but I heard a line in a fan trailer "Your Galaxy is in sight", who says this?[/QUOTE] Harbinger says it during Arrival.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35319599]Answered your questions with the way I see it. Like I said, ambiguous, but they're not exactly gaping flaws.[/QUOTE] Most of those answers are just assumptions based on speculation, and you can't just cover up a plothole with speculation. You can only stretch out theories so far.

Tried to fix that poster image. [t]http://i.imgur.com/LFgmD.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;35319708]Most of those answers just just assumptions based on speculation, and you can't just cover up a plothole with speculation. You can only stretch out theories so far.[/QUOTE] Unless the plot really does completely contradict itself then, especially at the end of a series, I don't see the problem with some speculation/independent interpretation. [editline]27th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Tinter;35319713]Tried to fix that poster image. [t]http://i.imgur.com/LFgmD.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] <3

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/JW0sS.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35319599]Answered your questions with the way I see it. Like I said, ambiguous, but they're not exactly gaping flaws.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]- Why use syntheics to kill organics if you're supposed to be protecting organics against THOSE VERY SAME SYNTHETICS! [B]To protect the future of organic life throughout the Galaxy.[/B][/QUOTE] What the shit kind of answer is that?

[QUOTE=Tinter;35319713]Tried to fix that poster image. [t]http://i.imgur.com/LFgmD.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Still no Zaeed

[QUOTE=Tinter;35319713]Tried to fix that poster image. [t]http://i.imgur.com/LFgmD.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] My new wallpaper, thanks!

[i]Gabe explained this pretty well (I think) in the PA post I linked to before, "The AI who created the Reapers is not killing all organic life. He is actually “pruning” it so as to avoid the destruction of all organic life. By removing the most evolved species and preserving them inside the Reapers he is saving all the still developing organic life. From his point of view it is either go in every 50k years and absorb the most advanced civilizations so that organic life will still exist or do nothing and watch Synthetics stamp out all organic life forever. "[/i] But there's no possible basis for this reasoning. If sythetics wiped out organic life THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY ORGANIC LIFE NOW. You can't say sythetics will always wipe out organics when they haven't done it at all. [i]Considering that the Catalyst (Citadel) MADE the reapers, it must have existed beforehand. Maybe the same could apply to the Mass Relays? Or the Reapers (Which, in a way, are benevolent to an extent in that they want organic life to continue) are helping organic life become technologically advanced for their benefit. Seems odd, but it's not a particularly major flaw.[/i] That doesn't even make any sense. They guide you along the path to creating sythetics so they can wipe you out so you can't create sythetics that wll wipe out everything? Why not just remove the Mass Relays, stopping the problem before it begns? [i]Could be the exception not the rule.[/i] And exception which invalidates his stupid rule. "Synthetics will always wipe out all organics" No, synthetics and organics are working together. EDI even modified HERSELF to be more compassionate. [i]To protect the future of organic life throughout the Galaxy.[/i] That's not a fucking explination. The entire thing started with the Reapers using synthetics to kill organics. Infact synthetics have ONLY attacked organics WHEN THE REAPERS FORCED THEM TO. Otherwise they just try to preserve themselves. [i]Yes, they give them a new "Form" so they continue to exist while protecting the future of organic life in the galaxy.[/i] Reconstituting something does not preserve it. It destroys it and uses the raw materals to make something new, the entire concept is flawed. And if it wasn't... [i]Er. To prune organic life. What kind of question is this? Did you even listen to what the catalyst was saying? They don't just wage war for no reason, they do it to destroy all current advanced civilizations.[/i] ...Why use the vessles you're trying to save organic life in as war machines? An intergalactic war results in losses ot matter ho powerful you are. Using the thing you're trying to preserve as your main form of attack is retarded. "We need to save these puppies from PETA, arm the puppy cannons!"

[QUOTE=Whatsinaname;35319759]What the shit kind of answer is that?[/QUOTE] Read the second point, he repeated a question and I wasn't going to type it all out again.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35319819]Read the second point, he repeated a question and I wasn't going to type it all out again.[/QUOTE] I didn't repeat a single question, I just worded the second badly. I meant why use the Geth to kill oganics when you're entire objective is to protect organics from synthetics like the Geth?

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35319734]Unless the plot really does completely contradict itself then, especially at the end of a series, I don't see the problem with some speculation/independent interpretation. [/QUOTE] The main issue with this is that the whole speculation idea was shoehorned in at the last moment. Speculation normally comes up unintentionally (Blade Runner) or something that can be speculated on is hinted at several times (Inception) The problem with ME3 is that the whole speculation thing was added in in what appears to half-done quick thought, we're introduced to a slew of new things in a few minutes that pretty much exist to only set this "speculation" up (The catalyst being a [sp]super AI[/sp] when there was no hint about what it was anywhere, the whole [sp]Synthetics VS Organic[/sp] thing etc.) yet there's a bunch of definite parts that undermine the speculation to begin with ([sp]Everyone is stranded on earth, the mass relays are gone etc.[/sp]) and there's still the matter of fact that in this speculation-frenzy alot of main things are forgotten, especially closure. Speculation only works if it's not your main intention, you can't just everything build up to speculation when it's never even implied to finish off with that, and it's still pretty bad storytelling since then it's basically a "fill in the blanks" conclusion.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35319776][i]Gabe explained this pretty well (I think) in the PA post I linked to before, "The AI who created the Reapers is not killing all organic life. He is actually “pruning” it so as to avoid the destruction of all organic life. By removing the most evolved species and preserving them inside the Reapers he is saving all the still developing organic life. From his point of view it is either go in every 50k years and absorb the most advanced civilizations so that organic life will still exist or do nothing and watch Synthetics stamp out all organic life forever. "[/i] But there's no possible basis for this reasoning. If sythetics wiped out organic life THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY ORGANIC LIFE NOW. You can't say sythetics will always wipe out organics when they haven't done it at all.[/QUOTE] Maybe they already did, but organic life eventually came back, albeit taking millions/billions of years rather than the tens of thousands when the reapers come back to "Prune" the galaxy again. We don't know how long the Catalyst has existed. [QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35319776]Could be the exception not the rule. And exception which invalidates his stupid rule. "Synthetics will always wipe out all organics" No, synthetics and organics are working together. EDI even modified HERSELF to be more compassionate.[/QUOTE] Which is why the Catalyst is having to make a "New Solution" because this exception has proven that it's out of date. [QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35319776]Yes, they give them a new "Form" so they continue to exist while protecting the future of organic life in the galaxy. Reconstituting something does not preserve it. It destroys it and uses the raw materals to make something new, the entire concept is flawed. And if it wasn't... Er. To prune organic life. What kind of question is this? Did you even listen to what the catalyst was saying? They don't just wage war for no reason, they do it to destroy all current advanced civilizations. ...Why use the vessles you're trying to save organic life in as war machines? An intergalactic war results in losses ot matter ho powerful you are. Using the thing you're trying to preserve as your main form of attack is retarded. "We need to save these puppies from PETA, arm the puppy cannons!"[/QUOTE] We don't know if the Reapers are sentient/remember their old existence. And it seems disturbingly efficient to me - It's the reason they're such an unstoppable force, every loss that the organics take, the Reapers make several gains in their forces. [editline]27th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Blooper Reel;35319853]The main issue with this is that the whole speculation idea was shoehorned in at the last moment. Speculation normally comes up unintentionally (Blade Runner) or something that can be speculated on is hinted at several times (Inception) The problem with ME3 is that the whole speculation thing was added in in what appears to half-done quick thought, we're introduced to a slew of new things in a few minutes that pretty much exist to only set this "speculation" up (The catalyst being a [sp]super AI[/sp] when there was no hint about what it was anywhere, the whole [sp]Synthetics VS Organic[/sp] thing etc.) yet there's a bunch of definite parts that undermine the speculation to begin with ([sp]Everyone is stranded on earth, the mass relays are gone etc.[/sp]) and there's still the matter of fact that in this speculation-frenzy alot of main things are forgotten, especially closure. Speculation only works if it's not your main intention, you can't just everything build up to speculation when it's never even implied to finish off with that, and it's still pretty bad storytelling since then it's basically a "fill in the blanks" conclusion.[/QUOTE] I guess it depends on whether or not people mind "Filling in the blanks" as you say. Maybe that's why I don't mind the ending as much as other people do.

[QUOTE=cagoBHuK;35319581]I entered the game and there was new pack, 33000 credits. I didnt buy it, spending credits on Spectre packs to get Asari Adept... [img]http://i.imgur.com/BTkBv.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] put in a medi-gel pack and all my credits

[QUOTE=the_killer24;35319900]put in a medi-gel pack and all my credits[/QUOTE] You're short on medigel? I don't use it that much, except in emergencies where I think I can recover from it and there's no squaddies around. Otherwise I just give up because 9/10 times I stand up next to a banshee and get instakilled.