[t]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578952410985736278/83D35C31CA83BCF60103E1D287ABEC3CB5131408/[/t]
Third time in a row, all at least 10-15mins into the round, nothing gained.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35396709]
EDI is a robotic intelligence trying to integrate into organic society. her subplot focused on boning joker and being from the moon.
see the problem[/QUOTE]
no, i do not
[QUOTE=mac338;35396841]I bet the facial animation team was thrilled too. :v:
I also think Aria's character design is really good, her face reflects her personality really well.[/QUOTE]
something i wasn't sure on was the occasional markings in the faces of asari. if they are tattoos, it shows they have adapted that from turian culture somewhat along with other elements of turian culture. if they are just the alien equivalent of frecles though then that's a little stupid.
[QUOTE=Hamsterjuice;35396763]this argument fucking sucks, edi and miranda are both awful characters i don't even care why am i posting[/QUOTE]
the franchise has plenty of bad characters, miranda and edi are not among them
[QUOTE=jechtman;35396863][t]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578952410985736278/83D35C31CA83BCF60103E1D287ABEC3CB5131408/[/t]
Third time in a row, all at least 10-15mins into the round, nothing gained.[/QUOTE]
Stop headbutting shit.
[QUOTE=Hamsterjuice;35396855]hey man, no need for petty insults
i think you're taking this way too seriously[/QUOTE]
it's not a petty insult, it's an observation based on my knowledge of the human mind
i don't care what you think, i'm reading things and then responding to them with the highest degree of accuracy and conciseness i'm capable of rendering
if you can't emotionally react to an image just because the logic of the image isn't explained, especially because in your mind it's parsed as "nerd shit", then it's not a problem with the design. it's an emotional block that you have that makes you incapable of reading the image. it's not an insult, that's just how it is assuming everything you're telling me is accurate.
[QUOTE=RG4;35396795]Then suddenly you get downed by the same group of enemies you charged into :v:[/QUOTE]
That's why we need a Krogan Vanguard
[editline]2nd April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jackald;35396888]This thread is very explosively active considering it's 1pm on a monday...[/QUOTE]
Got homework to avoid
[QUOTE=Rusty100;35396864]no, i do not[/QUOTE]
one design plays into the themes explored in the story
the other doesn't
I also don't understand your idea that a character has to appeal to the basest ideas of attractiveness to work in a romantic story. I mean EVE from Wall-e worked perfectly well and she was an egg
romance doesn't just have to be attractive people having sex, sometimes it can be a way to explore complex themes and ideas that don't have to do with sex at all
[QUOTE=Jackald;35396888]This thread is very explosively active considering it's 1pm on a monday...[/QUOTE]
Easter holiday woop
dat legion
[img]http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/092/7/3/legion_by_trinity_messenger-d4us2p5.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=usaokay;35396889]It's not the cameltoe that bothers me, it's how the character is designed. I can see why Bioware chose the creates the characters to be as attractive or not (with Jack, she's designed to make you hate her at first glance, but once you get to know her, you'll like her), but it's these mentions of how the writers are like "HEY, SHE'S HOT. LET US MENTION HER SPECIFIC BODY PART WHILE TRYING TO ADD TO HOW SHE'S A TOUGH CHARACTER." It's annoying.
You can talk to the most interesting porn star in the world while she's still wearing her latex outfit, but you still can't get past her appearance.
I still enjoyed how EDI was developed, despite that sub-plot between her and Joker.[/QUOTE]
i also disagree with this
as long as there's an arc and the design is adequately justified, then it shouldn't be an issue
IE; a porn star in latex would be perfectly fine if, say, she was obsessed with attention. maybe have a story in which you get to understand her motives and reasons, it could work
No lamp 0/10
[QUOTE=Arvuti;35396922]dat legion
[img]http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/092/7/3/legion_by_trinity_messenger-d4us2p5.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
that rifle looks like it's made of cake
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35396906]one design plays into the themes explored in the story
the other doesn't
I also don't understand your idea that a character has to appeal to the basest ideas of attractiveness to work in a romantic story. I mean EVE from Wall-e worked perfectly well and she was an egg
romance doesn't just have to be attractive people having sex, sometimes it can be a way to explore complex themes and ideas that don't have to do with sex at all[/QUOTE]
okay look:
edi had to be attractive because the other romantic partner was a human. eve and wall-e are two robots
edi's story isnt as emotionally complex as mirandas. that doesn't make it any less valid. not every one of the games subplots has to raise difficult questions. what they did with edi is perfectly valid. the game already has the 'is the ai a real person or not' themes with legion. doing the same thing twice is too much, the game would be cramming that idea down your throat if it had two whole caracters dedicated to it. legion's story is the one with complex moral issues. edi's is a lighter story. there is a balance.
you can't compare one story to another in the same game, because they're both part of the game and part of the experience. not every story has to work on the same levels as the other stories. the thing with edi's body worked, and while her design isn't stellar, it's not hugely flawed. it worked well with the story it told, which in itself had nothing wrong with it (it just wasn't as complex as legions, but as i said, legion's still exists, we don't need two of the same subplots.)
[QUOTE=usaokay;35396889]I still enjoyed how EDI was developed as a character and Bioware did an excellent job at conceiving that, it's just the overall design appearance that bothers me. To me, women are not meant to be overly-sexualized that demeans the character, but as I mentioned before, I think Bioware did that on purpose so people can forget about her appearance and focus on her character (which obviously didn't work out).[/QUOTE]
'not meant' is not a phrase that should be used as flagrantly as it is
a sexualized character is fine as long as sexual themes are a part of their character
the more sexual the story the more sexual the design, eh
the problem is that EDI's story isn't even based around sex. it's a really poorly conceived and shallow series of monologues on what it means to be human and in a relationship.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35396936]i also disagree with this
as long as there's an arc and the design is adequately justified, then it shouldn't be an issue
IE; a porn star in latex would be perfectly fine if, say, she was obsessed with attention. maybe have a story in which you get to understand her motives and reasons, it could work[/QUOTE]
edi was never supposed to have any complex moral issues - she's still basically your ship, and you can't have your shit going through too much shit because she needs to be relatively burden free to do her job properly
why can't some characters have lighter subplots than others without them being perfectly valid too?
[QUOTE=Cone;35396526]Hepler was one of the writers of Origins, so how just her being there counts as a flaw I'm not sure.[/QUOTE]
Hepler wrote the dwarves in DA:O, she's fine
[QUOTE=Rusty100;35396658]nobody complained about miranda[/QUOTE]
I complained about Miranda, she looks ridiculous and I can't take her seriously
[QUOTE=Egevened;35396717]saren is being talked about even after several years now, he's the best villain bioware has ever made, it's no surprise the starchild doesn't live up to him[/QUOTE]
Does the Illusive Man count? IMO he was better written although I prefer Saren due to the "hands-on" approach and intimidation factor.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;35396869]something i wasn't sure on was the occasional markings in the faces of asari. if they are tattoos, it shows they have adapted that from turian culture somewhat along with other elements of turian culture. if they are just the alien equivalent of frecles though then that's a little stupid.[/QUOTE]
I think they're natural but only happen when mating with certain species or whatever
But that Eclipse bitch in Miranda's loyalty mission with the yellow markings had a much hotter face than Liara, I wish Liara had markings like that
ALSO - edi's whole subplot can be ignored entirely if you don't talk to her or joker. it's not an integral part of the game's story. it's just a little something on the side. the game already had a lot going on and some lighter, side dialogue is perfectly fine.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35396884]it's not a petty insult, it's an observation based on my knowledge of the human mind
i don't care what you think, i'm reading things and then responding to them with the highest degree of accuracy and conciseness i'm capable of rendering
if you can't emotionally react to an image just because the logic of the image isn't explained, especially because in your mind it's parsed as "nerd shit", then it's not a problem with the design. it's an emotional block that you have that makes you incapable of reading the image. it's not an insult, that's just how it is assuming everything you're telling me is accurate.[/QUOTE]
ehhhhh you're really going to play armchair psychiatrist based of a few posts i made
[QUOTE=Rusty100;35396973]okay look:
edi had to be attractive because the other romantic partner was a human. eve and wall-e are two robots
edi's story isnt as emotionally complex as mirandas. that doesn't make it any less valid. not every one of the games subplots has to raise difficult questions. what they did with edi is perfectly valid. the game already has the 'is the ai a real person or not' themes with legion. doing the same thing twice is too much, the game would be cramming that idea down your throat if it had two whole caracters dedicated to it. legion's story is the one with complex moral issues. edi's is a lighter story. there is a balance.
you can't compare one story to another in the same game, because they're both part of the game and part of the experience. not every story has to work on the same levels as the other stories. the thing with edi's body worked, and while her design isn't stellar, it's not hugely flawed. it worked well with the story it told, which in itself had nothing wrong with it (it just wasn't as complex as legions, but as i said, legion's still exists, we don't need two of the same subplots.)[/QUOTE]
the point i was trying to make is that you can have a romantic story without sex appeal
romance and sex are intertwined, but not necessarily the same
except legion's story wasn't the same as what EDI's tried to be or what it should have been
Legion's subplot was about the emergence of the soul and self awareness(which was handled pretty well btw)
EDI on the other hand was already self aware before even the start of ME2. She never grappled with the idea of whether or not she had a soul because she already had her own identity. all of her issues deal with her contrasting goals of "be an efficient computermachine" and "be more human".
they could totally be played in different ways. i have no idea how having two stories about AI characters would be stifling. at the end of the day it's just two good stories.
validity hasn't been brought up
i'm talking about the symbiosis between design and story and how EDI's design doesn't mesh with her story and Miranda's does.
and i've already pointed out the flaws with EDI's story itself so yeah
[QUOTE=Jackald;35397024]The problem I have is that EDI is probably one of the most asexual characters in the entire series, but she has such a ridiculously sexualized body.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that the point? Juxtaposing her asexual nature against an overly sexualized body, that's the point. She is a robot, what has a sexy body, but isn't interested in sex. That's the tragic irony (for Joker I guess).
[QUOTE=Jackald;35397048]Sorry, have you studied psychology for 7 years or are you just making shit up?[/QUOTE]
it's character design 101 and basic logic.
If you can't respond to a design because you personally associate things generally like it with "nerd shit" then the problem is yours, not the designs.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35397051]the point i was trying to make is that you can have a romantic story without sex appeal
romance and sex are intertwined, but not necessarily the same
[/QUOTE]
yes but it is romance with a human male we identify with - and as such we put ourselves in his shoes. there needs to be sexuality to it, otherwise we literally can't fathom how the relationship would work. we are people. we have sex, we need sex. it's a part of a relationship whether you like it or not, and since joker is a person - a man no less - it needs to have a sexual element to it. you don't see many romcoms with ugly chicks (that aren't tragic comedies).
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35397051]
except legion's story wasn't the same as what EDI's tried to be or what it should have been
Legion's subplot was about the emergence of the soul and self awareness(which was handled pretty well btw)
EDI on the other hand was already self aware before even the start of ME2. She never grappled with the idea of whether or not she had a soul because she already had her own identity. all of her issues deal with her contrasting goals of "be an efficient computermachine" and "be more human".
they could totally be played in different ways. i have no idea how having two stories about AI characters would be stifling. at the end of the day it's just two good stories.
[/QUOTE]
well exactly - they are different stories. hers doesn't tackle the same issues as legions because as you said, she was already self aware. what i'm saying is, it already had different themes to legions, but they were much lighter and relatively consequence free - which is the point. they were just a few pieces of dialogue in the game. they weren't supposed to be this big character arc. they were just tidbits, another thing to make the ship and the game's universe more lively and interesting. and it worked. it was fine for what it was and wanted to be. it didn't need to be anything more.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35397051]
validity hasn't been brought up
i'm talking about the symbiosis between design and story and how EDI's design doesn't mesh with her story and Miranda's does.
[/QUOTE]
yes and i have said that i think it does just fine
[QUOTE=Rusty100;35397056]Isn't that the point? Juxtaposing her asexual nature against an overly sexuality body, that's the point. She is a robot, what has a sexy body, but isn't interested in sex. That's the tragic irony (for Joker I guess).[/QUOTE]
which would be an interesting story, if that was ever brought up.
instead it's just sort of implied that she fucks him so that he'll be happier? I guess?
i don't know, they never bring up sex beyond joker being an insecure cripple
[QUOTE=Jackald;35397083]Yeah, which would be cool if they explored that a bit, but all of her outfits are HYPER SEXY. Why doesn't the pragmatic, sensible and logical robot put on some light armor, for example?[/QUOTE]
isn't her body armour already? wouldn't putting on additional armour just weigh her down
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35397070]it's character design 101 and basic logic.
If you can't respond to a design because you personally associate things generally like it with "nerd shit" then the problem is yours, not the designs.[/QUOTE]
not having an emotional response to an image of a space alien means i have deep-seeded emotional issues
alright
[QUOTE=Hamsterjuice;35397139]not having an emotional response to an image of a space alien means i have deep-seeded emotional issues
alright[/QUOTE]
(a space alien designed by human beings from earth in order to illicit certain emotions from other human beings from earth)
[QUOTE=Rusty100;35397104]yes but it is romance with a human male we identify with - and as such we put ourselves in his shoes. there needs to be sexuality to it, otherwise we literally can't fathom how the relationship would work. we are people. we have sex, we need sex. it's a part of a relationship whether you like it or not, and since joker is a person - a man no less - it needs to have a sexual element to it. you don't see many romcoms with ugly chicks (that aren't tragic comedies).
well exactly - they are different stories. hers doesn't tackle the same issues as legions because as you said, she was already self aware. what i'm saying is, it already had different themes to legions, but they were much lighter and relatively consequence free - which is the point. they were just a few pieces of dialogue in the game. they weren't supposed to be this big character arc. they were just tidbits, another thing to make the ship and the game's universe more lively and interesting. and it worked. it was fine for what it was and wanted to be. it didn't need to be anything more.
yes and i have said that i think it does just fine[/QUOTE]
uhhh
no
The player takes the roll of Shepard. If at any time the player is having to put themselves into the shoes of another character, something is wrong.
it's like the whole romance tidbit on Illium between the krogan and the asari. I don't remember feeling "wow she should dump him because i would so not fuck a krogan". She obviously had no issues with him physically, therefor I, as an outside agent, did not find it to be a problem.
Same thing with Joker. If Joker wants to fuck a robot that looks weird, but he's cool with it, then I don't have any problem. Nor should I. Because I'm not the one fucking the robot.
i don't think you understand the fundamental difference between movies and games in terms of storytelling
Except like I said, the problems are in the fact that EDI's design is provocative and is a massive shift in her role from chiding greek chorus. You can't just take a major character, turn them on their head and then handwave it. It makes the character seem distant and inhuman, and it makes all interactions that character has with other characters hollow and strange.
And as I said, there are numerous inconsistencies in her writing. In one scene she's able to analyze all of human history in seconds and come to an understanding of what altruism is, a vague concept in and of itself, and in another she's a cloud 9 alien who thinks it's perfectly reasonable to dope Joker up with drugs against his will.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35397204]uhhh
no
The player takes the roll of Shepard. If at any time the player is having to put themselves into the shoes of another character, something is wrong.
it's like the whole romance tidbit on Illium between the krogan and the asari. I don't remember feeling "wow she should dump him because i would so not fuck a krogan". She obviously had no issues with him physically, therefor I, as an outside agent, did not find it to be a problem.
Same thing with Joker. If Joker wants to fuck a robot that looks weird, but he's cool with it, then I don't have any problem. Nor should I. Because I'm not the one fucking the robot.
i don't think you understand the fundamental difference between movies and games in terms of storytelling
Except like I said, the problems are in the fact that EDI's design is provocative and is a massive shift in her role from chiding greek chorus. You can't just take a major character, turn them on their head and then handwave it. It makes the character seem distant and inhuman, and it makes all interactions that character has with other characters hollow and strange.
And as I said, there are numerous inconsistencies in her writing. In one scene she's able to analyze all of human history in seconds and come to an understanding of what altruism is, a vague concept in and of itself,[b] and in another she's a cloud 9 alien who thinks it's perfectly reasonable to dope Joker up with drugs against his will.[/b][/QUOTE]
what the hell that's a thing that happens
i told joker and edi not to hook up cus it's fuckin weird
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