[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35409036]does someone want me to write a long and boring thesis on why you all should have seen the ending coming because of numerous glaring and obvious holes in Bioware's understanding of RPG storytelling that they've been begun demonstrating ever since the release of mass effect 2[/QUOTE]
Yeah do it
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35409036]does someone want me to write a long and boring thesis on why you all should have seen the ending coming because of numerous glaring and obvious holes in Bioware's understanding of RPG storytelling that they've been begun demonstrating ever since the release of mass effect 2[/QUOTE] Sure, I could do with some delicious nerd tears right now.
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35409233]That too. I mean, I wasn't crazy about Left 4 Dead, but it didn't make me suddenly denounce Valve. I also really hated the addition of Hats and the ability to buy shit with real money in Team Fortress 2, but again, it didn't lead to me denouncing Valve.
Making one mistake shouldn't lead to you predicting that everything after that mistake is going to be shit. That's a really closed-minded approach.[/QUOTE]
hnnnnng
not what i said
i specifically referred to "completely neutered player interaction" and "numerous glaring and obvious holes in Bioware's understanding of RPG storytelling" for a reason
they displayed those flaws, then they continued displaying them, and then the ending happened. and the ending was shit because of those flaws and people are surprised
throughout all of ME3 player interaction is severely limited and railroaded, of course the fucking ending is going to follow the same trend
and of course when you stop putting an emphasis on player driven interaction the entire backbone of RPG storytelling is crippled and the overall reason why players enjoy the story becomes muddled and you end up doing stupid shit like starkids created against creator speech in an effort to deliver some sort of poignant philosophical message
See the problem with Mass Effect 3 is that it cuts back drastically on your ability to make moral judgements and decisions. It becomes about the story the writer wants to tell rather than the story that you tell as a player. That is the cause of nigh every story based problem present in the game.
if Valve makes a game with an absolute lack of understanding of how shooters work and or how character development is written you'd be perfectly justified in saying that future games would probably show the same problems if they aren't addressed
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35409437]if Valve makes a game with an absolute lack of understanding of how shooters work and or how character development is written you'd be perfectly justified in saying that future games would probably show the same problems if they aren't addressed[/QUOTE]
No, it really wouldn't be. I get that if someone makes a mistake it's possible they'll continue to make it, but when it becomes widely known that they made a mistake, and the person who made that mistake knows they made it, it's completely reasonable to say that they probably won't make it again.
It's kind of unreasonable to say "SOMEONE MADE A MISTAKE? WELL THEN THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP DOING THAT FOREVER!!!!!!"
The issue was 'addressed' in that it became abundantly clear that they fucked up. The issues with Mass Effect 2 weren't bad enough to warrant denouncing the entire company.
It's always surprising when someone wrecks something you like, because anyone who assumes "Oh, I like something and someone who has made mistakes in the past is now handling it, it's obviously going to be horrible." is a huge cynic and should probably chin up a little bit.
that makes noooo seeenseee
a video game developer is made up of multiple teams, because one team's writing staff messes up doesn't mean that the whole company can't write
you're treating hacky writing like some kind of virus
[editline]3rd April 2012[/editline]
if i'm in the same room as tim buckley will i catch the 'bad writings'?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35409036]does someone want me to write a long and boring thesis on why you all should have seen the ending coming because of numerous glaring and obvious holes in Bioware's understanding of RPG storytelling that they've been begun demonstrating ever since the release of mass effect 2
[/QUOTE]
no
because the game was tight until the end. spare us your ramblings
[QUOTE=Hamsterjuice;35409258]i've always found dragonage mad boring anyway, same with any other series by bioware sans mass effect
not sure why i like mass effect[/QUOTE]
I found KOTOR incredibly boring :v
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35409453]No, it really wouldn't be. I get that if someone makes a mistake it's possible they'll continue to make it, but when it becomes widely known that they made a mistake, and the person who made that mistake knows they made it, it's completely reasonable to say that they probably won't make it again.
It's kind of unreasonable to say "SOMEONE MADE A MISTAKE? WELL THEN THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP DOING THAT FOREVER!!!!!!"
The issue was 'addressed' in that it became abundantly clear that they fucked up. The issues with Mass Effect 2 weren't bad enough to warrant denouncing the entire company.
It's always surprising when someone wrecks something you like, because anyone who assumes "Oh, I like something and someone who has made mistakes in the past is now handling it, it's obviously going to be horrible." is a huge cynic and should probably chin up a little bit.[/QUOTE]
Er, but I was right. Isn't that what people have been donating tens of thousands of dollars to charity about?
There was no message from Bioware that they actually listened to any criticism. No clear action taken or statements made. Why would you assume they'd change their course?
DA2 made money. It was shit, but it made money. And if it made money being shit, they'll continue doing the things that made it shit.
Writing is a collective process in things like video games. It's as much about the team you're with, the director you're under, and the intent of the studio overall as it is your writing ability.
Here's an example. You're a writer at Bioware, and you're writing the opening. You're, for all intents and purposes, a perfectly capable writer with an understanding of the series. Now, the director comes up to you and he makes it clear that he wants the Reapers to show up in the first five minutes. You are now incapable of making a beginning with any sort of tension or grip because of the boundaries placed upon you.
The point is that the attitudes of those higher up in the productive food chain greatly influence the ability for a writing staff to produce a capable story. Given certain directives and incentives, eventually you can destroy the entire direction of the story.
Now, assuming that rumors are true and the lead writer and director were the ones almost entirely responsible for the ending, then it's obvious that those flawed ideas about how a story should unfold would leak into the rest of the game. Because they're the ones setting the limits and the goals.
There's a whole other rant to be made about how the Dragon Age and Mass Effect teams have their own sort of cross pollination, more and more the higher up you go, naturally. But the point is that a precedent was set with DA2 that wasn't sufficiently challenged, and because of that when they went with that precedent again they ended up fucking everything over.
This would be so much easier if you all didn't assume I was talking about things that are patently ridiculous. Of course I don't fucking think that bad writing is a virus or that companies can't course correct. Those are physically impossible concepts. At the very least assume I understand the basic laws of reality.
you sure do type a lot of words that end up meaning nothing
more words doesn't mean better argument, be more direct
[QUOTE=Hamsterjuice;35409570]you sure do type a lot of words that end up meaning nothing
more words doesn't mean better argument, be more direct[/QUOTE]
I did. You came to the conclusion that I thought bad writing is infectious. You've made it clear that I need to be more thorough in my explanations.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35409579]I did. You came to the conclusion that I thought bad writing is infectious. You've made it clear that I need to be more thorough in my explanations.[/QUOTE]
then fix it
and stop
posting like this
it's really irritating
and doesn't get your point across more
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35409579]I did. You came to the conclusion that I thought bad writing is infectious. You've made it clear that I need to be more thorough in my explanations.[/QUOTE]
nah i can't even read your posts without my eyes wandering to more interesting things
ehhh you post like robot
I never did the arrival dlc but Anderson and people still referred to me as having blown up the relay.
I just assumed that considering it's major cannon the game says it happened even if you didn't play the dlc.
[QUOTE=Greeneyes;35409618]I never did the arrival dlc but Anderson and people still referred to me as having blown up the relay.
I just assumed that considering it's major cannon the game says it happened even if you didn't play the dlc.[/QUOTE]
If you didn't do it Hackett mentions his team perished when the [sp]relay exploded[/sp].
I have no idea why people hate the Quarians so fucking much because a few admirals are total dicks or because one of dem hips has a crazy ass fanbase.
I think most of them are pretty damn nice beings. :(
Guess I should be glad I presonally like all the races equally...
Though that makes me feel even worse about the ending.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pOGDJ.png[/IMG]
Also:
Apparently BW never contacted Adam Baldwin to voice Kal'Reegar for ME3, he would have loved to return to play the character.
I'm kinda pissed off they just off'd him with a damn ingame email.
I'm going to get Arrival and Kasumi and play ME2 again.
Should I get Overlord? Does it add anything important to ME3/fun? If not I'll save my money.
[QUOTE=MiX-A;35409674][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pOGDJ.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Oh my [B]GOD[/B] [IMG]http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-crying.gif[/IMG]
also I love how you have the same powers like 3/4 times in your quickbar.
[QUOTE=Greeneyes;35409711]I'm going to get Arrival and Kasumi and play ME2 again.
Should I get Overlord? Does it add anything important to ME3/fun? If not I'll save my money.[/QUOTE]
[sp] If you get overlord you meet the main character from it again in ME3. [/sp]
[QUOTE=MiX-A;35409674]I have no idea why people hate the Quarians so fucking much because a few admirals are total dicks or because one of dem hips has a crazy ass fanbase.
I think most of them are pretty damn nice beings. :(
Guess I should be glad I presonally like all the races equally...
Though that makes me feel even worse about the ending.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pOGDJ.png[/IMG]
Also:
Apparently BW never contacted Adam Baldwin to voice Kal'Reegar for ME3, he would have loved to return to play the character.
I'm kinda pissed off they just off'd him with a damn ingame email.[/QUOTE]
When I read that the Turians were honouring some Quarians because they helped them on Palaven I was like "Awesome", but then I read Kal'Reegar was the one that died and you find out via some 20 sentence long e-mail I was rather agitated, to say the least.
[editline]3rd April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35409740]Oh my [B]GOD[/B] [IMG]http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-crying.gif[/IMG]
also I love how you have the same powers like 3/4 times in your quickbar.[/QUOTE]
To fill up the last 4 slots I reckon.
[QUOTE=ViralHatred;35409753][sp] If you get overlord you meet the main character from it again in ME3. [/sp][/QUOTE]
Is it shadow broker good?
Cant find gif picture with Javik (sun glasses), saying: Deal with it
Help? :>
[QUOTE=Greeneyes;35409804]Is it shadow broker good?[/QUOTE]
Shadow broker good, not really.
It's on par with firewalker but the combat is interesting.
[QUOTE=cagoBHuK;35409824]Cant find gif picture with Javik (sun glasses), saying: Deal with it
Help? :>[/QUOTE]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31693224/Mass%20Effect/Dealwithit.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35409559]Er, but I was right. Isn't that what people have been donating tens of thousands of dollars to charity about?
There was no message from Bioware that they actually listened to any criticism. No clear action taken or statements made. Why would you assume they'd change their course?
DA2 made money. It was shit, but it made money. And if it made money being shit, they'll continue doing the things that made it shit.
Writing is a collective process in things like video games. It's as much about the team you're with, the director you're under, and the intent of the studio overall as it is your writing ability.
Here's an example. You're a writer at Bioware, and you're writing the opening. You're, for all intents and purposes, a perfectly capable writer with an understanding of the series. Now, the director comes up to you and he makes it clear that he wants the Reapers to show up in the first five minutes. You are now incapable of making a beginning with any sort of tension or grip because of the boundaries placed upon you.
The point is that the attitudes of those higher up in the productive food chain greatly influence the ability for a writing staff to produce a capable story. Given certain directives and incentives, eventually you can destroy the entire direction of the story.
Now, assuming that rumors are true and the lead writer and director were the ones almost entirely responsible for the ending, then it's obvious that those flawed ideas about how a story should unfold would leak into the rest of the game. Because they're the ones setting the limits and the goals.
There's a whole other rant to be made about how the Dragon Age and Mass Effect teams have their own sort of cross pollination, more and more the higher up you go, naturally. But the point is that a precedent was set with DA2 that wasn't sufficiently challenged, and because of that when they went with that precedent again they ended up fucking everything over.
This would be so much easier if you all didn't assume I was talking about things that are patently ridiculous. Of course I don't fucking think that bad writing is a virus or that companies can't course correct. Those are physically impossible concepts. At the very least assume I understand the basic laws of reality.[/QUOTE]
can you please stop typing like
this
it's a pain in the ass to read and quote
Your entire argument centers around the fact that you were right despite the fact that you were making assumptions based off of a shitty game and some mistakes in another game. If you were wrong, which was just as likely, you'd just by a cynic who wasn't giving Bioware enough credit.
Your entire argument is "I was right about Bioware's ending because I was right."
Like I said, there are plenty of other examples of game companies messing up and then not repeating their mistakes. Just because someone makes a mistake doesn't mean suddenly they are destined to make that mistake forever. They could have just as easily learned from Dragon Age 2 and done a better job with Mass Effect 3. Basically you just made a complete guess and you were right, so you're acting like you're some manner of master of predicting game companies and you can analyze exactly how everyone should have known the ending was gonna suck.
Also why are you directing that 'bad writing is a virus' thing at me, I didn't even say that.
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31693224/Mass%20Effect/Dealwithit.gif[/img]
[editline]3rd April 2012[/editline]
Wow, way late.
[QUOTE=Greeneyes;35409618]I never did the arrival dlc but Anderson and people still referred to me as having blown up the relay.
I just assumed that considering it's major cannon the game says it happened even if you didn't play the dlc.[/QUOTE]
Nope. Hackett says that he sent a team to do it instead, if you didn't do the DLC.
[QUOTE=jechtman;35409847][img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31693224/Mass%20Effect/Dealwithit.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
Thanks a lot!
Wow, apparently, someone thinks that Jacob have more fan, than Zaeed (just read it on one forum)
[QUOTE=cagoBHuK;35409876]Thanks a lot!
Wow, apperantly, someone thinks that Jacob have more fan, than Zaeed (just read it on one forum)[/QUOTE]
He's been around longer; only reason I can come up with.
But it's a well known fact that Zaeed would beat Jacob in every way.
[QUOTE=Arachnidus;35404451]Or all the species, for that matter. The asari, especially, considering they're almost universally biotic.[/QUOTE]
Are asari naturally capable of coordinating their biotic eezo nodules without the use of an amp? If not, they'd have probably required a focus of some sort, like a wand or staff with a core of element zero. They may have used swords and shields during their pre-gun past, since there were such replicas in the Temple of Athame.
Concerning Whatsinaname's thoughts on a Mass Effect fantasy game, I dunno how that'd work; would it be all the species on one planet, or would the worlds be connected by some sort of "Underworld" like the Ways in the Wheel of Time stories?
Speaking of Wheel of Time, apparently Obsidian is developing a Wheel of Time video game.
[QUOTE=Dominicus;35409885]He's been around longer; only reason I can come up with.
But it's a well known fact that Zaeed would beat Jacob in every way.[/QUOTE]
As far as fans go, Jacob is in the base game and he's been in other material as well, whereas Zaeed was DLC. He also makes a super minor appearance in Mass Effect 3, whereas Jacob has an entire sidequest featuring him as a main character.
Zaeed is definitely better, but he's a lot more of a minor character than Jacob is.
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