[QUOTE=Swebonny;35442700]Have you guys seen this:
[url]http://shannon.users.sonic.net/masseffect/[/url]
It's neat[/QUOTE]
That's pretty cool.
If the DLC is like a cutscene form of something similar to this, I'd be all over it.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35443054]See, here's the problem. We only have one precedent in regards to the destruction of a relay. In Arrival, it was all but bashed into our brains that if a relay is destroyed, for any reason, the resulting energy release is equivalent to a star going supernova. Because we are only given this one specific example, it becomes a rule of the universe that "Mass Effect relays explode with the force of a supernova if they are destroyed." If we are to assume that at the ending of Mass Effect 3 this does NOT take place, then the rules have changed and it was not explained ANYWHERE.
Like I said above, "Did I just destroy most of the known galaxy" is not the kind of plot thread you leave hanging.[/QUOTE]
All endings except for the bad Destroy seem to have the Relays exploding spectacularly, the rest seem to just sort of break apart.
I'd be interested in some external literature regarding the epilogue of ME3.
Not to do with the ending itself, that should be done ingame - Some other stories from other characters living after ME3 ends. Kind of like the stuff in that thing Swebonny linked - Even small things like fictional newscasts, diaries, logs, etc.
Since I dare not go there...anyone feel like summing up BioSocial's reaction to the news?
[QUOTE=Jackald;35443296]Sorry but "use your imagination" is not good writing.[/QUOTE]
Open endings are not always bad, especially when the future is not clear. Especially in a game that revolves around player choice.
Another ending which I think could have worked would be where there is no conversation with the catalyst whatsoever - Shepard, in his last, dying, moments, activates the crucible - It fires, destroying the citadel, and we just see it being blasted apart around us from shepard's point of view as he whites out.
[editline]5th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jackald;35443328]You mean like Emily Wong dying via twitter?[/QUOTE]
I didn't know about that, but as long as it's written fairly well then yeah, I don't see a problem with it.
Still didn't get a commendation pack, gg Bioware.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443386]Open endings are not always bad, especially when the future is not clear. Especially in a game that revolves around player choice.
Another ending which I think could have worked would be where there is no conversation with the catalyst whatsoever - Shepard, in his last, dying, moments, activates the crucible - It fires, destroying the citadel, and we just see it being blasted apart around us from shepard's point of view as he whites out.[/QUOTE]
That ending would still fail to provide closure of any kind. Everything that happens after that point would be entirely based on assumption.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35443454]That ending would still fail to provide closure of any kind. Everything that happens after that point would be entirely based on assumption.[/QUOTE]
Now that I think about it, it would also be EVEN MORE similar to Human Revolution's (Canon?) ending :v:
All it would need is a deep monologue from Shepard about what he was fighting for etc. etc. and bam, it's there
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443386]Open endings are not always bad, especially when the future is not clear. Especially in a game that revolves around player choice.
Another ending which I think could have worked would be where there is no conversation with the catalyst whatsoever - Shepard, in his last, dying, moments, activates the crucible - It fires, destroying the citadel, and we just see it being blasted apart around us from shepard's point of view as he whites out.[/QUOTE]
There's a diffrence between an open ending and introducing entirely new themes and characters in the last 5 minutes and not explaining anything.
[QUOTE=Jackald;35443457]So, instead of 3 coloured explosions where your choices don't matter, we just have 1 coloured explosion where your choices don't matter? I'm glad you didn't write Mass Effect 3's ending...[/QUOTE]
Thing is, it's difficult to make the choices matter when a lot of the time all they boil down to is who's on your side and what resources you're gathering in the fight against the reapers. Which ends up with them being statistics on your EMS level.
It's an interesting coincidence that EA makes this press-release (rather than Bioware directly) just one day after getting publicized as the "Worst company ever" or whatever, and right before PAX panels.
Okay, finished ME1 ([url=]creepy as hell due to this bug[/url]), time for ME2. Does anyone remember if you can edit your face after importing an ME2 save? I want to fix two missions I did in ME1 and since there's no ME1 save editor I have to use the ME2 one.
And this time I'm gonna edit Legion in before Freedom's Progress. I want to hear his comments throughout the game.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35443510]There's a diffrence between an open ending and introducing entirely new themes and characters in the last 5 minutes and not explaining anything.[/QUOTE]
Rather, there is a difference between leaving some things open and pulling a Sopranos, cutting to black and telling the audience to use their imagination.
My imagination doesn't cost $60.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35443530]Rather, there is a difference between leaving some things open and pulling a Sopranos, cutting to black and telling the audience to use their imagination.
My imagination doesn't cost $60.[/QUOTE]
The writers of the Sopranos came out and said they did that because they had no idea how to end it. Not a great thing to do, but they handled it better than Bioware are at the moment.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35443510]There's a diffrence between an open ending and introducing entirely new themes and characters in the last 5 minutes and not explaining anything.[/QUOTE]
I definitely agree with too much popping up in the last five minutes. I mean for the whole series we're having "REAPERS BAD REAPERS BAD" imprinted on our minds. Hell, they even have the EVIL BAD GUY TOTAL CONTEMPT FOR ALL ORGANICS speech.
Then it comes to the end of the game and it turns out that the reapers were actually meant to be assisting the continuation of galactic civilization, and it's just too out of the blue. We needed more insinuation that the reapers had a justifiable reason for their actions, but that's hard to bring up when throughout not just ME3 but the whole series they've just been "YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND US".
Hell, arguing with Harbinger could have been fucking awesome (Just like arguing with TIM, or, to make yet another Deus Ex reference, the argument with Hugh Darrow towards the end)
Oh and of course, gonna use JeanLuc's textures this time around (thanks).
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443569]I definitely agree with too much popping up in the last five minutes. I mean for the whole series we're having "REAPERS BAD REAPERS BAD" imprinted on our minds. Hell, they even have the EVIL BAD GUY TOTAL CONTEMPT FOR ALL ORGANICS speech.
Then it comes to the end of the game and it turns out that the reapers were actually meant to be assisting the continuation of galactic civilization, and it's just too out of the blue. We needed more insinuation that the reapers had a justifiable reason for their actions, but that's hard to bring up when throughout not just ME3 but the whole series they've just been "YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND US".
Hell, arguing with Harbinger could have been fucking awesome (Just like arguing with TIM, or, to make yet another Deus Ex reference, the argument with Hugh Darrow towards the end)[/QUOTE]
Explaining the Reapers, and doing it in such a terrible way, was the dumbest choice they made. No one cared why the Reapers were doing it, we just wanted to stop them. Hell even in the first game they made this point.
"What do the Reapers want?"
"What does it matter? Your survival relies on you stopping them, not in understanding them."
Vigil knew what was what.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35443672]Explaining the Reapers, and doing it in such a terrible way, was the dumbest choice they made. No one cared why the Reapers were doing it, we just wanted to stop them. Hell even in the first game they made this point.
"What do the Reapers want?"
"What does it matter? Your survival relies on you stopping them, not in understanding them."
Vigil knew what was what.[/QUOTE]
Personally if there's one thing I hate in an Antagonist it's the "Always Chaotic Evil" or "They're just BAD" explanation.
If we don't have any explanation for the reapers whatsoever, it just leaves even more questions hanging. "Who made them?" "Why did they make them?" "Why do they destroy all advanced organic life?"
Everything happens for a reason, the reapers must have SOME reason for doing what they do, they must have SOME reason for existing at all. Nothing just destroys everything for no reason.
I think if the extended cut follows the same lines as that Epilogue Generator I would be very happy. In it the best results for the 3 ending choices the relays are rebuilt and your crew is saved. Hell if shep is alive they are reunited with LI.
If Bioware had done this in the first place none of this would happen. What the hell when through Casey's head when he decided to end the series with speculation.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443717]Personally if there's one thing I hate in an Antagonist it's the "Always Chaotic Evil" or "They're just BAD" explanation.
If we don't have any explanation for the reapers whatsoever, it just leaves even more questions hanging. "Who made them?" "Why did they make them?" "Why do they destroy all advanced organic life?"
Everything happens for a reason, the reapers must have SOME reason for doing what they do, they must have SOME reason for existing at all. Nothing just destroys everything for no reason.[/QUOTE]
It's better to have fans asking "Why did the Reapers do this" than "Why did you do this, Bioware". There's good speculation, what was their true motive and such, and bad speculation "What the fuck did I just watch?"
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35443767]It's better to have fans asking "Why did the Reapers do this" than "Why did you do this, Bioware". There's good speculation, what was their true motive and such, and bad speculation "What the fuck did I just watch?"[/QUOTE]
So it needs a better explanation, rather than no explanation at all.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443717]Everything happens for a reason, the reapers must have SOME reason for doing what they do, they must have SOME reason for existing at all. Nothing just destroys everything for no reason.[/QUOTE]
My preference? Leave several hints for their reasons, but they all point to different directions. Give the fans something to discuss without absurd LOTS OF SPECULATION-level lack of explanation. The Reaper's motives were never really important.
[QUOTE=God dammit;35437827]Try sing along!
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN25hbDMWUA&feature=g-all-f&context=G231ddcaFAAAAAAAAAAA[/media][/QUOTE]
I did.
It was beautiful.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443717]Personally if there's one thing I hate in an Antagonist it's the "Always Chaotic Evil" or "They're just BAD" explanation.
If we don't have any explanation for the reapers whatsoever, it just leaves even more questions hanging. "Who made them?" "Why did they make them?" "Why do they destroy all advanced organic life?"
Everything happens for a reason, the reapers must have SOME reason for doing what they do, they must have SOME reason for existing at all. Nothing just destroys everything for no reason.[/QUOTE]
Some mysteries deserve to remain hidden, and the Reapers are arguably one of them. THIS is something that's okay to speculate on, because it keeps them intimidating and foreign. Once you explain the mystery, they aren't scary anymore.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;35443813]My preference? Leave several hints for their reasons, but they all point to different directions. Give the fans something to discuss without absurd LOTS OF SPECULATION-level lack of explanation. The Reaper's motives were never really important.[/QUOTE]
God, NO. That would be even worse because we'd have even LESS to go on. That's, essentially, intentionally misleading fans by strewing loads of false trails all over the place which don't lead anywhere.
And the reaper's motives are REALLY important, it's why whenever Shepard encounters one in conversation he asks "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS"
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443795]So it needs a better explanation, rather than no explanation at all.[/QUOTE]
No, they wanted speculation at the end, which they could have had AND made a good ending by leaving the Reaper's motivaions a secret. Instead they decided to throw together some vague space magic shit and ignored the speculation goldmine they had.
If they had just gone with the more predictable ending (read: one that fucking made sense) they'd have all the speculation they wanted and none of the hatred.
The whole ending wreaks of "This is the first draft, it's so brilliant we don't need to go over it."
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35443842]Some mysteries deserve to remain hidden, and the Reapers are arguably one of them. THIS is something that's okay to speculate on, because it keeps them intimidating and foreign. Once you explain the mystery, they aren't scary anymore.[/QUOTE]
They weren't really scary anymore when they appeared en masse anyway.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443844]God, NO. That would be even worse because we'd have even LESS to go on. That's, essentially, intentionally misleading fans by strewing loads of false trails all over the place which don't lead anywhere.
And the reaper's motives are REALLY important, it's why whenever Shepard encounters one in conversation he asks "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS"[/QUOTE]
The Reaper's motivations aren't important. All that's important is knowing that they want you dead, you can't negotiate with them and you only have one shot at fighting them. Anything else is just wasting time. It's also EXACTLY the thing that should be left to speculation, that way you have the victory (or defeat, I'm equally annoyed that there's no way to lose) the series has been building up to but you still have the mystery to draw you back in.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;35443920]They weren't really scary anymore when they appeared en masse anyway.[/QUOTE]
I disagree; I damn near shit myself at the final scene of Mass Effect 2. My exact reaction was something along the lines of "Holy goddamn christ we're fucked."
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35443869]No, they wanted speculation at the end, which they could have had AND made a good ending by leaving the Reaper's motivaions a secret. Instead they decided to throw together some vague space magic shit and ignored the speculation goldmine they had.
If they had just gone with the more predictable ending (read: one that fucking made sense) they'd have all the speculation they wanted and none of the hatred.
The whole ending wreaks of "This is the first draft, it's so brilliant we don't need to go over it."[/QUOTE]
People would have been just as pissed off if they'd left the reapers motivations completely in the dark with no ideas whatsoever and just said "Yeah speculate away, we're not telling you why they do it".
And, as synthetics, shouldn't the reapers fit into the whole debate of Organics vs. Synthetics? Personally, as soon as Legion asked "Does this unit have a soul?" I began asking "Do REAPERS have a soul?"
[editline]5th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35443931]The Reaper's motivations aren't important. All that's important is knowing that they want you dead, you can't negotiate with them and you only have one shot at fighting them. Anything else is just wasting time. It's also EXACTLY the thing that should be left to speculation, that way you have the victory (or defeat, I'm equally annoyed that there's no way to lose) the series has been building up to but you still have the mystery to draw you back in.[/QUOTE]
We can't negotiate with them because we don't understand them. They could have had a whole side-plot where you start to find clues as to why the reapers continue the cycle, hell, maybe even confront a reaper with the information and interrogate them with it (Like the one on rannoch). That could uncover even more clues, and lead on to a final confrontation with whoever (Harbinger or the Catalyst) where everything falls into place.
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