[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35442919]To be honest, I recall us having this debate yesterday and the general consensus was that if we go -specifically- by ingame lore (no speculation whatsoever), then every single relay went supernova.
Sorry, but in a story like this, this isn't the kind of detail you leave your players to speculate over.[/QUOTE]
Supernova of that choice. So if it were green everything caught in the supernova of the mass relay would become synergized. Same with the other endings.
Not supernova as in everything would die.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443934]People would have been just as pissed off if they'd left the reapers motivations completely in the dark with no ideas whatsoever and just said "Yeah speculate away, we're not telling you why they do it".
And, as synthetics, shouldn't the reapers fit into the whole debate of Organics vs. Synthetics? Personally, as soon as Legion asked "Does this unit have a soul?" I began asking "Do REAPERS have a soul?"[/QUOTE]
Why would people have been pissed off? Were people honestly expecting their motivations to be explained? I wasn't, I didn't even care. They wanted me and everyone I knew dead, that was enough motivation for me to fight.
Is it really so terrible to have some mystery? Does everything have to be explained these days?
[QUOTE=Errorproxy;35443978]Supernova of that choice. So if it were green everything caught in the supernova of the mass relay would become synergized. Same with the other endings.
Not supernova as in everything would die.[/QUOTE]
That logic doesn't work on any level that I can think of. Energy doesn't just disappear, and it's made abundantly clear that the Relays have plenty of energy to go around.
Granted, I think "synthesis" might be the most baffling ending to any narrative I have ever seen. The crucible creates a machine/organic hybrid that's represented by imprinting glowing green circuitboards on everything? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?!
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35443983]Why would people have been pissed off? Were people honestly expecting their motivations to be explained? I wasn't, I didn't even care. They wanted me and everyone I knew dead, that was enough motivation for me to fight.
Is it really so terrible to have some mystery? Does everything have to be explained these days?[/QUOTE]
You have to know why the person you're fighting IS fighting.
Otherwise you're just fighting an enemy who just keeps attacking and attacking and you never know why. In the end, if you DO win, what exactly have you achieved? You've fought off an enemy and you'll never know why they were attacking in the first place. A war should extend far futher than "Here's the enemy. We must beat them. Go."
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443934]People would have been just as pissed off if they'd left the reapers motivations completely in the dark with no ideas whatsoever and just said "Yeah speculate away, we're not telling you why they do it".
And, as synthetics, shouldn't the reapers fit into the whole debate of Organics vs. Synthetics? Personally, as soon as Legion asked "Does this unit have a soul?" I began asking "Do REAPERS have a soul?"
[editline]5th April 2012[/editline]
We can't negotiate with them because we don't understand them. They could have had a whole side-plot where you start to find clues as to why the reapers continue the cycle, hell, maybe even confront a reaper with the information and interrogate them with it (Like the one on rannoch). That could uncover even more clues, and lead on to a final confrontation with whoever (Harbinger or the Catalyst) where everything falls into place.[/QUOTE]
So you want to speculate the ending, but want the Reapers' motive explained? Pick a side man.
I don't think the Reapers should have been give a logical motivation like preventing singularities or dark energy. I think they should have given the impression that their motives only really make sense to themselves to keep with that cosmic horror feel. Like just have them say they're our "salvation through destruction" because we represent chaos, and that they think we should be thankful to worthless organics.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35443672]Explaining the Reapers, and doing it in such a terrible way, was the dumbest choice they made. No one cared why the Reapers were doing it, we just wanted to stop them. Hell even in the first game they made this point.
"What do the Reapers want?"
"What does it matter? Your survival relies on you stopping them, not in understanding them."
Vigil knew what was what.[/QUOTE]
I always just assumed that the reapers needed to harvest organics to survive. Like as a form of energy or something. And then they would go into hibernation for 43 million years.
[QUOTE=guicool-BR-;35444033]So you want to speculate the ending, but want the Reapers' motive explained? Pick a side man.[/QUOTE]
Speculate about the Epilogue, or "What happens next?". Not about the actual story.
[editline]5th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Melkor;35444060]I always just assumed that the reapers needed to harvest organics to survive. Like as a form of energy or something. And then they would go into hibernation for 43 million years.[/QUOTE]
But they relentlessly pursue ANY remaining survivors to make sure that the WHOLE RACE goes extinct.
If that was the case they could have harvested just enough organics to last until next time, then leave again.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444030]You have to know why the person you're fighting IS fighting.
Otherwise you're just fighting an enemy who just keeps attacking and attacking and you never know why. In the end, if you DO win, what exactly have you achieved? You've fought off an enemy and you'll never know why they were attacking in the first place. A war should extend far futher than "Here's the enemy. We must beat them. Go."[/QUOTE]
So you would rather some bullshit explination that not only doesn't make any sense but also goes against established lore than have a little mystery in your antagonists?
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35444082]So you would rather some bullshit explination that not only doesn't make any sense but also goes against established lore than have a little mystery in your antagonists?[/QUOTE]
I'd RATHER there was a full, decent explanation.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444064]But they relentlessly pursue ANY remaining survivors to make sure that the WHOLE RACE goes extinct.
If that was the case they could have harvested just enough organics to last until next time, then leave again.[/QUOTE]
If they let an advanced organic race live for another 43 million years they'd probably have the technology to defeat the reapers by that time.
[QUOTE=Melkor;35444132]If they let an advanced organic race live for another 43 million years they'd probably have the technology to defeat the reapers by that time.[/QUOTE]
Fair point, although I'm sceptical of whether a few devastated colonies here and there would be capable of developing such technology.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35443795]So it needs a better explanation, rather than no explanation at all.[/QUOTE]
Well, no.
No amount of explanation is going to make Star Child any less stupid.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444120]I'd RATHER there was a full, decent explanation.[/QUOTE]
but darth
you just have to use your imagination, like casey said
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444171]Fair point, although I'm sceptical of whether a few devastated colonies here and there would be capable of developing such technology.[/QUOTE]
43 million years.
[QUOTE=Melkor;35444202]43 million years.[/QUOTE]
thousand
it's every fifty thousand years
[QUOTE=Melkor;35444202]43 million years.[/QUOTE]
aka 15695000000 days
aka 22600800000000 minutes
aka 1356048000000000 seconds
(not galactic standard year)
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35444198]but darth
you just have to use your imagination, like casey said[/QUOTE]
You know there's quite a major difference between discussing "What's going to happen to galactic civilization now?" and "So what IS the deal with the reapers? Do we ever actually find out?"
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35444215]thousand
it's every fifty thousand years[/QUOTE]
Oh, ok. My point still stands though.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444171]Fair point, although I'm sceptical of whether a few devastated colonies here and there would be capable of developing such technology.[/QUOTE]
To put it in perspective, it took 50k years for a bunch of stone-wielding hunter-gatherers to develop space travel and a complex galactic economy.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444245]You know there's quite a major difference between discussing "What's going to happen to galactic civilization now?" and "So what IS the deal with the reapers? Do we ever actually find out?"[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the former is bullshit forced speculation brought on by a terrible ending, where the latter is a common and very successful way on maintaining a fanbase once a series ends.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444245]You know there's quite a major difference between discussing "What's going to happen to galactic civilization now?" and "So what IS the deal with the reapers? Do we ever actually find out?"[/QUOTE]
yes, one affects absolutely everything about the universe and what happens to every character we've come to care about
the other doesn't matter because they're all dead/controlled/green
[editline]5th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35444278]Yeah, the former is bullshit forced speculation brought on by a terrible ending, where the latter is a common and very successful way on maintaining a fanbase once a series ends.[/QUOTE]
im personally fucking pissed that lovecraft never explained cthulhu's motivation
i mean come on what a butt burglar
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35444282]yes, one affects absolutely everything about the universe and what happens to every character we've come to care about
the other doesn't matter because they're all dead/controlled/green[/QUOTE]
"So why DID that country try to invade us?"
"Who cares they're all dead lol"
Like I said, war needs to be more than "They're attacking us! We need to beat them!", there has to be some sort of purpose behind it, otherwise it's just mindless action and fighting with little justification.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444245]You know there's quite a major difference between discussing "What's going to happen to galactic civilization now?" and "So what IS the deal with the reapers? Do we ever actually find out?"[/QUOTE]
I think I preferred when the Reapers' purpose was unknowable. They initially seemed like they were so far above us in everything, thought process, perception, scope of thought, that we'd be unable to comprehend why they were doing what they did. I found that more intimidating than the weird circular logic of ME3.
It's kind of like the Geth earlier in the series, they felt like the most alien "race" because they just thought on an entirely different level than organics. So in a universe of strange beings they were the strangest and most foreign because of that.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444304]"So why DID that country try to invade us?"
"Who cares they're all dead lol"
Like I said, war needs to be more than "They're attacking us! We need to beat them!", there has to be some sort of purpose behind it, otherwise it's just mindless action and fighting with little justification.[/QUOTE]
so survival is pointless
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35444282]im personally fucking pissed that lovecraft never explained cthulhu's motivation
i mean come on what a butt burglar[/QUOTE]
Cthulhu is a paranormal entity (And is one of those "JUST EVIL" antagonists), which rarely get justified because they're just magical demons that kill everything for no reason.
The Reapers are machines. Machines are built for a purpose - Not even the destruction of all life, just, specifically, all advanced life. That's a pretty damn specific order. Why?
WHO KNOWS SPECULATE LOL
[QUOTE=Fables;35438652]She must've gave Legion to Cerberus.[/QUOTE]
What DOES happen if you give Legion to Cerberus?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35444348]so survival is pointless[/QUOTE]
If we don't understand why the enemy were fighting then the whole war was just a pointless waste of life.
Is the Graal Spike Thrower supposed to hit targets half a second after you've fired? I don't know if it's the ludicrous lag I have today or if it's the weapon but I hear the sound and enemies die about half a second after I've fired and felt the recoil.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444304]"So why DID that country try to invade us?"
"Who cares they're all dead lol"
Like I said, war needs to be more than "They're attacking us! We need to beat them!", there has to be some sort of purpose behind it, otherwise it's just mindless action and fighting with little justification.[/QUOTE]
But the Reapers have never really been important to Mass Effect as a story. They're just the boogy men in the background who threaten evrything you love. The people and places are the important part of Mass Effect. The intergalctic politics and how this wide array of people deal with each other.
We rarely see the Reapers outside of ME3, and even thenthey act as motivators and set pieces to the interactions of galactic society. People get wrapped up in the whole "War for Earth" and "the Reapers are coming" thing, but really the Reapers are the least important part of Mass Effect as a narrative.
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