[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444379]If we don't understand why the enemy were fighting then the whole war was just a pointless waste of life.[/QUOTE]
I have absolutely no idea how this works
people died because they were trying to keep all of life from being eradicated by cthulhu robots, that seems like a pretty justified reason to die
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35444401][B]But the Reapers have never really been important to Mass Effect as a story.[/B] They're just the boogy men in the background who threaten evrything you love. The people and places are the important part of Mass Effect. The intergalctic politics and how this wide array of people deal with each other.[/QUOTE]
what
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444425]what[/QUOTE]
they haven't
same way that the motivation of the Emperor isn't important in star wars
he's just fucking evil
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444379]If we don't understand why the enemy were fighting then the whole war was just a pointless waste of life.[/QUOTE]
How is it a pointless waste of life? It was a fight for survival. You either fight, giving you a slim chance of survival, or you die, in which case you're now dead.
Understanding why the Reapers are attacking doesn't change the fact that they want to wipe us out. It doesn't help us defeat them and it doesn't broaden our perception of anything.
[QUOTE=jiggu;35444380]Is the Graal Spike Thrower supposed to hit targets half a second after you've fired? I don't know if it's the ludicrous lag I have today or if it's the weapon but I hear the sound and enemies die about half a second after I've fired and felt the recoil.[/QUOTE]
i've had the same problem, the servers have been incredibly slow today, most of my guns dont hit until 4 seconds after
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35444457]How is it a pointless waste of life? It was a fight for survival. You either fight, giving you a slim chance of survival, or you die, in which case you're now dead.
Understanding why the Reapers are attacking doesn't change the fact that they want to wipe us out. It doesn't help us defeat them and it doesn't broaden our perception of anything.[/QUOTE]
But what if we DO eventually understand them and are able to argue against them? Their intentions might be incorrect, their reasoning inaccurate, or we could work out a way for them to serve their purpose another way without eradicating life.
I think that would be a brilliant way of resolving the conflict, if we manage to slowly convince the reapers that their motivations are wrong. Slowly, throughout the whole game, just like it works out with TIM.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444425]what[/QUOTE]
They're the Empire from Star Wars or Sauron from the Lord of the Rings. They aren't important and only serve as a motivator for the story to continue. Mass Effect isn't about the Reapers, it's about Shepard and, more importantly, his relationships and the conflicts he faces within his world. The Reapers are a call to action, not a real faction or a character.
It's like a zombie movie. The zombies aren't the important part. The people trying to survive and the conflicts they have with each other is. Once you start focusing on the faceless bad guys with unknowable motivation you lose sight of the characters who are actually important.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35444452]they haven't
same way that the motivation of the Emperor isn't important in star wars
he's just fucking evil[/QUOTE]
Isn't the Emperor's motivation in Star Wars to create a stable, peaceful galaxy, if done so with an iron fist?
That's a pretty common dilemma - The imperialistic, fascist emperor seeking stability in favour of freedom, in conflict with the "Rebels" who seek liberation. Neither side is necessarily "Evil", they just have opposing causes.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444516]But what if we DO eventually understand them and are able to argue against them? Their intentions might be incorrect, their reasoning inaccurate, or we could work out a way for them to serve their purpose another way without eradicating life.
I think that would be a brilliant way of resolving the conflict, if we manage to slowly convince the reapers that their motivations are wrong. Slowly, throughout the whole game, just like it works out with TIM.[/QUOTE]
That would only work if the Reapers were willing to listen. Which they aren't. They have made it abundantly clear throughout the series that they consider us to be pathetic and that they are "infinitely [our] greater".
Would Luke Skywalker have done better if he had understood the Emperor's motivations? No, the Emperor is just evil.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444516]But what if we DO eventually understand them and are able to argue against them? Their intentions might be incorrect, their reasoning inaccurate, or we could work out a way for them to serve their purpose another way without eradicating life.
I think that would be a brilliant way of resolving the conflict, if we manage to slowly convince the reapers that their motivations are wrong. Slowly, throughout the whole game, just like it works out with TIM.[/QUOTE]
are you honestly saying that we could reason with the machines that have been eradicating all sentient life in the galaxy for tens of millions of years
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35444525]It's like a zombie movie. The zombies aren't the important part. The people trying to survive and the conflicts they have with each other is. Once you start focusing on the faceless bad guys with unknowable motivation you lose sight of the characters who are actually important.[/QUOTE]
Even zombies have justification in that usually they're just mindless, violent drones that can't help but attack everything.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444553]Isn't the Emperor's motivation in Star Wars to create a stable, peaceful galaxy, if done so with an iron fist?
That's a pretty common dilemma - The imperialistic, fascist emperor seeking stability in favour of freedom, in conflict with the "Rebels" who seek liberation. Neither side is necessarily "Evil", they just have opposing causes.[/QUOTE]
No. The Emporor is just evil and loves being evil. He's not at all a deep character. He just wants
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUrNu8lItu0[/media]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35444566]are you honestly saying that we could reason with the machines that have been eradicating all sentient life in the galaxy for tens of millions of years[/QUOTE]
Only because they think that we can never comprehend them - What if they're just underestimating us (Or shepard at least), and we do manage to gather some understanding behind their reasoning?
If they realise that we're beginning to understand, they might be more willing to listen. It's like ignoring a child because you don't think they'd understand, then realising that they can.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444569]Even zombies have justification in that usually they're just mindless, violent drones that can't help but attack everything.[/QUOTE]
That's not a motivation. That's just zombies being the device they were designed to be.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35444619]That's not a motivation. That's just zombies being the device they were designed to be.[/QUOTE]
They can't HAVE a motivation because they're mindless.
[editline]5th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35444577]No. The Emporor is just evil and loves being evil. He's not at all a deep character. He just wants
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUrNu8lItu0[/media][/QUOTE]
Even seeking power is a justification. It's SOMETHING to go on, rather than just "KILL EVERYTHING FOR THE HELL OF IT".
I liked sovereign because he (it?) was so mysterious, almost like an god like entity that had reasons we could not understand. Reapers maintained that mysterious and magical feel pretty well and then the star child spews some nonsense at me :(
[QUOTE=CLungcancer;35444642]I liked sovereign because he (it?) was so mysterious, almost like an god like entity that had reasons we could not understand. Reapers maintained that mysterious and magical feel pretty well and then the star child spews some nonsense at me :([/QUOTE]
Do you want Space Magic or don't you want Space Magic?
MAKE UP YOUR MINDS
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444553]Isn't the Emperor's motivation in Star Wars to create a stable, peaceful galaxy, if done so with an iron fist?
That's a pretty common dilemma - The imperialistic, fascist emperor seeking stability in favour of freedom, in conflict with the "Rebels" who seek liberation. Neither side is necessarily "Evil", they just have opposing causes.[/QUOTE]
is that why he created a galactic war
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444627]
Even seeking power is a justification. It's SOMETHING to go on, rather than just "KILL EVERYTHING FOR THE HELL OF IT".[/QUOTE]
No one said they're killing everything for the hell of it. They're killing us for a reason that should never beexplained to us. They're the most powerful thing in the galaxyand they don't give a shit about what we have to say. They wont listen to us because they're arrogant. Wouldn't you be after at least 37 million years of dominance?
Also, having no motivation and having a motivation that's never explained and never intended to be explained are fuctionally the same thing.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444658]Do you want Space Magic or don't you want Space Magic?
MAKE UP YOUR MINDS[/QUOTE]
One mysterious, unknowable faction =/= ending a trilogy with lore breaking space magic
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444605]Only because they think that we can never comprehend them - What if they're just underestimating us (Or shepard at least), and we do manage to gather some understanding behind their reasoning?
If they realise that we're beginning to understand, they might be more willing to listen. It's like ignoring a child because you don't think they'd understand, then realising that they can.[/QUOTE]
what so we wheel out stephen hawking to have an intellectual debate with sovereign while he throatfucks the citadel
what are you even talking about, that's fucking retarded
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444658]Do you want Space Magic or don't you want Space Magic?
MAKE UP YOUR MINDS[/QUOTE]
There's a pretty big difference between space magic and a motivation that's beyond our comprehension.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444627]They can't HAVE a motivation because they're mindless.
[editline]5th April 2012[/editline]
Even seeking power is a justification. It's SOMETHING to go on, rather than just "KILL EVERYTHING FOR THE HELL OF IT".[/QUOTE]
they make more reapers out of people goo
is that motivation any better than UNLIIIIMITEEED, POWWWAAARRRR?
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35444675]No one said they're killing everything for the hell of it. They're killing us for a reason that should never beexplained to us. They're the most powerful thing in the galaxyand they don't give a shit about what we have to say. They wont listen to us because they're arrogant. Wouldn't you be after at least 37 million years of dominance?[/QUOTE]
And what if Shepard manages to prove himself to the Reapers by gathering an understanding of what they want? What if their arrogance is unfounded, and Shepard proves them wrong? It could happen.
[QUOTE=Skyward;35444700]There's a pretty big difference between space magic and a motivation that's beyond our comprehension.[/QUOTE]
it's the difference between cthulhu and care bear stares
[editline]5th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444707]And what if Shepard manages to prove himself to the Reapers by gathering an understanding of what they want? What if their arrogance is unfounded, and Shepard proves them wrong? It could happen.[/QUOTE]
how the fuck would that even work if you don't know what it is that they want
jesus christ you're like a black hole of bad opinions
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444658]Do you want Space Magic or don't you want Space Magic?
MAKE UP YOUR MINDS[/QUOTE]
He didn't say anything about wanting space magic. He said Sovereign presented himself like a god, not that he actually was one. Then starchild comes along and shits all over the Reapers s they're no longer threatening.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35444701]they make more reapers out of people goo
is that motivation any better than UNLIIIIMITEEED, POWWWAAARRRR?[/QUOTE]
Thing is that doesn't fit in, because it's a nice simple explanation, so why would they bother hiding it rather than being all "YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND US"
[editline]5th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35444712]how the fuck would that even work if you don't know what it is that they want[/QUOTE]
He could find some clue, piece together the puzzle, form a basis for an understanding of why they exist. Then he confronts them with it and they eventually fill in the blanks.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444707]And what if Shepard manages to prove himself to the Reapers by gathering an understanding of what they want? What if their arrogance is unfounded, and Shepard proves them wrong? It could happen.[/QUOTE]
The Reapers have shown nothing but disinterest in everything we said. They ignore us and belittle us. Why? Because they don't give a turgid shit about anything we say. As far as they're concerned they're right and we're dumb primatives who can't possibly comprehend them.
We can't EVER negotiate with them. They wont listen.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;35444569]Even zombies have justification in that usually they're just mindless, violent drones that can't help but attack everything.[/QUOTE]
Justification != Importance to the story.
[editline]5th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35444776]The Reapers have shown nothing but disinterest in everything we said. They ignore us and belittle us. Why? Because they don't give a turgid shit about anything we say. As far as they're concerned they're right and we're dumb primatives who can't possibly comprehend them.
We can't EVER negotiate with them. They wont listen.[/QUOTE]
Not even the geth are considered, they are just tools for them.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;35444776]The Reapers have shown nothing but disinterest in everything we said. They ignore us and belittle us. Why? Because they don't give a turgid shit about anything we say. As far as they're concerned they're right and we're dumb primatives who can't possibly comprehend them.
We can't EVER negotiate with them. They wont listen.[/QUOTE]
What I'm trying to say here is that we PROVE that we're not just dumb primitives and that we CAN and WILL find out why they're doing it.
Like I said before, it's like ignoring a child because "They couldn't possibly understand it", when suddenly they turn out to understand the theory of relativity or something.
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