I dunno I still think it should be someone you respect than love.
[QUOTE=Novangel;35466113]How did the Catalyst know you'd recognise the dumb kid? Brain scanning or some shit maybe, but I'd like to have it being represented by someone else, maybe Anderson.[/QUOTE]
Indoctrination theooooryyyyyy
[QUOTE=EcksDee;35466248]Indoctrination theooooryyyyyy[/QUOTE]
The Indoctrination Theory isn't going to be canon. I don't think it can be executed well if they don't change the ending and just add some cutscenes. That wouldn't really wrap up the story at all.
[QUOTE=mac338;35466067]STEEEEEEVE![/QUOTE]
Yeah that, I never got that scene.
In my opinion, the indoctrination theory has MULTIPLE problems.
[U]Harbinger leaving/Coats claiming noone survived:[/U]
Well it did just kill EVERYONE going to the beam, it probably had better things to do aka destroy more ships. And you were knocked out for a bit of time when you got hit, so Coats probably dismissed the chance of success, not sure about Anderson though.
[U]Anderson arriving at the console before you:[/U]
Maybe he got teleported there instead?
[U]Shepard's radio suddenly working/Hackett acknowledging Shepard on the Citadel after believing he was dead: [/U]
The 'radio' people use seem to be internally implanted on everyone, it doesnt seem like it'd get damaged easily. Also for Hackett suddenly acknowleding you survived, uh you just fucking OPENED THE CITADEL ARMS.
[U]Infinite ammo pistol:[/U]
Would be pretty fucking stupid if you had 6 shots.
[U]Shepard bleeding on the place where he shot Anderson:[/U]
Pretty circumstantional, he would be bleeding in a lot of places after the laser beam.
[QUOTE=Novangel;35466312]In my opinion, the indoctrination theory has MULTIPLE problems.
[U]Harbinger leaving/Coats claiming noone survived:[/U]
Well it did just kill EVERYONE going to the beam, it probably had better things to do aka destroy more ships. And you were knocked out for a bit of time when you got hit, so Coats probably dismissed the chance of success, not sure about Anderson though.
[B]Considering that the beam was the one and only weak spot in the Reaper plan that would have fucked up everything they'd been doing for millions of years, something as intelligent as Harbinger wouldn't have just flown off.
Unless the indoctrination theory is true and they wanted Shepard to enter the beam to continue the process.
[/B]
[U]Anderson arriving at the console before you:[/U]
Maybe he got teleported there instead?
[B]There is no personal teleportation thing in the Mass Effect universe. Mass Relays are the only objects capable of doing that shit.
Also, in the walk to the console, there's a bunch of dialogue with Anderson that shows that he was beamed to a similar place as you. Looking at the console area, you'll see that the area you came out of was the only way to the console.
[/B]
[U]Shepard's radio suddenly working/Hackett acknowledging Shepard on the Citadel after believing he was dead: [/U]
The 'radio' people use seem to be internally implanted on everyone, it doesnt seem like it'd get damaged easily. Also for Hackett suddenly acknowleding you survived, uh you just fucking OPENED THE CITADEL ARMS.
[B]
Hackett had no way of knowing it was Shepard that did it. For all they knew, Shepard was dead. "No survivors"
[/B]
[U]Infinite ammo pistol:[/U]
Would be pretty fucking stupid if you had 6 shots.
[B]This is silly.
If they had added reloading, sure I'd accept your point, but Shepard fires bullet after bullet without reloading.
Dream-like shit eh?[/B]
[U]Shepard bleeding on the place where he shot Anderson:[/U]
Pretty circumstantional, he would be bleeding in a lot of places after the laser beam.
[B]Notice how in the entire walk from the beam to the console, Shepard isn't holding that part of his/her body, showing that the wound was not present when he or she entered the citadel.[/B][/QUOTE]
Anderson says the walls shifted. So when you get there, his pathway may have closed behind him. Doesn't explain everything else though.
[QUOTE=stupid07er;35466387]Anderson says the walls shifted. So when you get there, his pathway may have closed behind him. Doesn't explain everything else though.[/QUOTE]
It's possible, but then why didn't Shepard's pathway close behind him?
I know most people got the gist of the Bioware PAX East from the live blogs and this thread. But there are some handcam recordings for anyone wanting to watch it. This is probably the best I could find:
[video=youtube;cHYV4QDYcYo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHYV4QDYcYo[/video]
[QUOTE=Novangel;35466312]In my opinion, the indoctrination theory has MULTIPLE problems.
[U]Harbinger leaving/Coats claiming noone survived:[/U]
Well it did just kill EVERYONE going to the beam, it probably had better things to do aka destroy more ships. And you were knocked out for a bit of time when you got hit, so Coats probably dismissed the chance of success, not sure about Anderson though.
[U]Anderson arriving at the console before you:[/U]
Maybe he got teleported there instead?
[U]Shepard's radio suddenly working/Hackett acknowledging Shepard on the Citadel after believing he was dead: [/U]
The 'radio' people use seem to be internally implanted on everyone, it doesnt seem like it'd get damaged easily. Also for Hackett suddenly acknowleding you survived, uh you just fucking OPENED THE CITADEL ARMS.
[U]Infinite ammo pistol:[/U]
Would be pretty fucking stupid if you had 6 shots.
[U]Shepard bleeding on the place where he shot Anderson:[/U]
Pretty circumstantional, he would be bleeding in a lot of places after the laser beam.[/QUOTE]
I agree with all of this, but I still believe indoc. has a chance. People have overanalyzed it all to fuck. Perhaps Shep wasn't indoctrinated before he passed out by the console after shooting the Illusive man?
The only evidence I'm basing this off is the codex, saying that indoctrination results in hallucinations of ghostly figures that convince you to trust the reapers.
I mean I can't find another explanation for that stupid kid. Why would an AI brain-scan or whatever? I mean, how does one even begin to explain the Catalyst's appearance.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;35466413]It's possible, but then why didn't Shepard's pathway close behind him?[/QUOTE]
Because it didn't?
The walls shifted, that doesn't mean that pathways are constantly closing as soon as people use them.
As for your other points, the animation for Shepard raising his pistol was kind of hilariously bad, so it's pretty evident that the entire segment was lazy. You also generally don't shoot more than six times, but they didn't want to fuck you over if you needed to by making you reload in the middle of an intense and dramatic moment.
Also I don't think you actually read the Indoctrination Theory. Shepard is 'dreaming' after he wakes up from Harbinger, in the theory. You act like it begins on the Citadel at some point.
Hackett was shown to be a bit of a Shepard fanboy. He thought Shepard could do no wrong and was behind him every step of the way. Having Hackett assume that Shepard actually got aboard the Citadel (since he was last sighted right next to the teleport beam) really isn't much of a stretch.
Anderson said he used the teleport beam but got sent to a different part of the Citadel. Shortly after he says the walls shift. He could have easily found his way to the control panel before Shepard and then the wall closed behind him.
Wow you're right Shepard is instead holding his abdomen which is probably even more damaged. Shepard had one arm and he draped it across himself because he was hurt. He couldn't have held every single area that was injured. He only has two hands, and one of them is busy. He could have easily had the wound before he arrived.
You're seriously grasping at straws here to cover Bioware's ass regarding plotholes. They said they wouldn't change the ending, and saying 'The ending was a dream sequence. Shepard then woke up and went on to defeat the Reapers all by himself' would be changing the ending, sir.
[editline]7th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=mac338;35466484]I agree with all of this, but I still believe indoc. has a chance. People have overanalyzed it all to fuck. Perhaps Shep wasn't indoctrinated before he passed out by the console after shooting the Illusive man?
The only evidence I'm basing this off is the codex, saying that indoctrination results in hallucinations of ghostly figures that convince you to trust the reapers.
I mean I can't find another explanation for that stupid kid. Why would an AI brain-scan or whatever? I mean, how does one even begin to explain the Catalyst's appearance.[/QUOTE]
When did Shepard see a ghostly figure telling him to trust The Reapers? The Catalyst gave him three choices, all of which would result in The Reapers leaving forever. He obviously didn't trust The Reapers, and you couldn't really pick a Reaper-friendly ending.
Have people forgotten that the people behind the ending are shitty writers? Have people forgot what plotholes are? Stop rampantly speculating and throwing the world 'canon' everywhere. The Indoctrination Theory is fan fiction, and it's really obnoxious that people are insisting that it's canon when it so obviously isn't.
You fools! You're doing what Casey wants!
Stop SPECULATING!
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35466488]
You're seriously grasping at straws here to cover Bioware's ass regarding plotholes. They said they wouldn't change the ending, and saying 'The ending was a dream sequence. Shepard then woke up and went on to defeat the Reapers all by himself' would be changing the ending, sir.[/QUOTE]
Not trying to cover Bioware's ass at all, please don't make that mistake. Bioware's handling of the ending is horribly stupid, and a good ending wouldn't allow for the other bullshit that backs the indoctrination theory which we didn't mention.
I don't make any claims as to what actually happened, I'm just saying that the indoctrination theory, based on the information in the ending sequence and the lore of the game, is perfectly viable.
Of course, while it is viable, it's not what Bioware made Canon, because they're stupid fucking morons that will never get any money from me again.
(Also, I don't think you got the question. Why didn't the pathway close after Shepard, yet they did after Anderson.
Yes, the sequence was lazy, which takes credibility from the indoctrination theory a little.
I know that it was right after waking from Harbingers boom boom. I admit that I worded it inadequately in the post, but I understand the theory.
Yeah, Hackett's dialogue is a non-issue.
Ok.
Shepard, in the entire walk through the area filled with bodies, has both of his arms hanging lazily by his or her side.)
[editline]7th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35466488]
Have people forgotten that the people behind the ending are shitty writers? Have people forgot what plotholes are? Stop rampantly speculating and throwing the world 'canon' everywhere. The Indoctrination Theory is fan fiction, and it's really obnoxious that people are insisting that it's canon when it so obviously isn't.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's fan fiction that fits the lore and the situation better than the actual ending.
Yeah, the people who wrote the ending were morons if they actually intended for it to be like it is.
[QUOTE=Greeneyes;35466521]You fools! You're doing what Casey wants!
Stop SPECULATING![/QUOTE]
Get back you hound!
I like how I found out through the mass effect wikia, that there is a planet called Paravin. I had no friggin idea.
My favourite planet is Phaistos, because it means pie in finnish (actually it's paistos, but it's like an alternative way to pronounce it).
i beat me2 again
it's a lot shorter and a lot easier than i remember
everything is either a recruitment mission or a loyalty mission
the game feels a lot more hollow and formulaic in terms of missions
me3 is an improvement in almost every way
except you know
the ending
[QUOTE=Paravin;35466780]I like how I found out through the mass effect wikia, that there is a planet called Paravin. I had no friggin idea.[/QUOTE]
Now you need to make a sex novel about it.
Well, the good thing is I have no idea how they'll clarify the closure of the endings.. so will be a surprise for me.
i've just started to replay mass effect 2 to fix all my mistakes in ME3
its like a cower in cover simulator, shields are made of paper
So, anyone who is good at silver matches want to team up? Only ever completed one silver with random people and it's a grind trying to get 99k credits on bronze.
Lol'ed at the start, the cheers was so sarcastic, properly people who didn't like the endings.
I keep mishearing that he's swearing.
Anyway, no one excited there for the batarians.
Urg, I come on this thread for positive further news on Mass Effect 3 and there's just more people moping and theories on the ending. It's really depressing.
I get it. I agree. The ending sucked huge balls. But I've think we've made point clear enough now and they're not going to do much to alter it (except in the form of a clarification DLC). Can we...move on unless further developments happen about the endings? Seeing half the thread about it is really boring.
I wanted to see blue children....I wanted to make that house on Rannoch...I wanted to meet Garrus in an Bar
[QUOTE=mac338;35466484]I agree with all of this, but I still believe indoc. has a chance. People have overanalyzed it all to fuck. Perhaps Shep wasn't indoctrinated before he passed out by the console after shooting the Illusive man?
The only evidence I'm basing this off is the codex, saying that indoctrination results in hallucinations of ghostly figures that convince you to trust the reapers.
I mean I can't find another explanation for that stupid kid. Why would an AI brain-scan or whatever? I mean, how does one even begin to explain the Catalyst's appearance.[/QUOTE]
As I had stated a while back, the child's presence throughout the game, I believe, is to show the emotional and psychological weight that Shepard is enduring in the wake of a war that he has warned people about for so long, yet still people stand little chance of surviving. Which is why Shepard has nightmares about the kid being unable to save him- and the millions just like him as proposed by the 'oily shadows'
As to why The Catalyst takes this form? Most likely for equal dramatic effect and that whole 'form you're comfortable with' trope.
[QUOTE=Sir Drone;35464923]To be fair it would of been better if the form flashed from Kaiden/Ash, Your LI and anyone else who died (be it major character or dead squadmate)[/QUOTE]
It would have been interesting, and maybe less controversial, if it was a uniform shape (maybe a reflection of Shepard) and images of those who have died flashed across it- that child being among them.
Personally, I think the Indoctrination Theory, is not a bad idea but was far from the creator's intention. The theory itself creates several issues on its own, and I don't just mean leaving an ending that is [B]more[/B] ambiguous and [B]more[/B] inconclusive (I don't care to write a wall of text dissecting it all and I don't know any fancy video shit- its a poor excuse, but I doubt many'd read it anyway). It would have been an interesting twist, and would have been interesting if the 'strength' of your Indoctrination is reflected through your decisions in some way [sp](Sparing/killing the [Fabricated] Rachni Queen and decisions that could weaken or strengthen the universe (destroying the genophage) could all reflect on Shepard's pending indoctrination or willpower and resistance.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Unib5;35467277]Urg, I come on this thread for positive further news on Mass Effect 3 and there's just more people moping and theories on the ending. It's really depressing.
I get it. I agree. The ending sucked huge balls. But I've think we've made point clear enough now and they're not going to do much to alter it (except in the form of a clarification DLC). Can we...move on unless further developments happen about the endings? Seeing half the thread about it is really boring.[/QUOTE]
I feel the same way. If it's not the ending we're discussing, it's multiplayer (which I lack access to :suicide: ). So, I've been fairly absent from conversation too.
i've noticed in mass effect 2, on Tuchuncka you can actually see the shroud in the skybox, aswell as that big North Korean Hotel looking temple
a nice little touch
So is the avenger a regular or rare or what?
Regular I think
all starting guns are regular
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