Not really much to say, The endings are awful, the overall plot was awful. And no amount of PR or letting the rest of writing team peer review the endings IN RETROSPECT is going to fix it. Back ending it is fucking pointless not really much of a conciliation or compromise at all.
The simple paradigm is this: There were issues with every ME game. Mac Walters as lead writer was a colossal mistake. Simple as. You can throw reams of paragraphs at that, but frankly I can't be assed about it anymore. Garrus and Wrex weren't as well written as your nostalgia glasses make you think they were, and most of the their best and iconic stuff wasn't even in ME1 anyway. What made them as popular as they were was also the model work and the voice actors assigned. Mac Walters is simply a bad writer. *shrug*
EA's influence hasn't been all that great on the company either. For every logistical win, you have the kind of crap Javik's commoditization represents, and the fact the people who didn't romance Ashley are literally missing about a third of Normandy dialog and Zaeed's dialog is broken and no money or time is ever going to be put to fixing it, because EA isn't going to pay for it. People who don't fuck Ashley are literally getting less than what other people are getting despite paying the same amount of money, and ain't jack shit going to be done about it.
MP is mostly brilliant except for the one button does everything motif they refuse to abandon because it's "signature" and again, the blanket and blatant commercialization of upgrades and unlocking.
Woo got Paladin.
I can actually use it since my Carnifex is only II
[QUOTE=27X;35550658]Not really much to say, The endings are awful, the overall plot was awful. And no amount of PR or letting the rest of writing team peer review the endings IN RETROSPECT is going to fix it. Back ending it is fucking pointless not really much of a conciliation or compromise at all.
The simple paradigm is this: There were issues with every ME game. Mac Walters as lead writer was a colossal mistake. Simple as. You can throw reams of paragraphs at that, but frankly I can't be assed about it anymore. Garrus and Wrex weren't as well written as your nostalgia glasses make you think they were, and most of the their best and iconic stuff wasn't even in ME1 anyway. What made them as popular as they were was also the model work and the voice actors assigned. Mac Walters is simply a bad writer. *shrug*
EA's influence hasn't been all that great on the company either. For every logistical win, you have the kind of crap Javik's commoditization represents, and the fact the people who didn't romance Ashley are literally missing about a third of Normandy dialog and Zaeed's dialog is broken and no money or time is ever going to be put to fixing it, because EA isn't going to pay for it. People who don't fuck Ashley are literally getting less than what other people are getting despite paying the same amount of money, and ain't jack shit going to be done about it.
MP is mostly brilliant except for the one button does everything motif they refuse to abandon because it's "signature" and again, the blanket and blatant commercialization of upgrades and unlocking.[/QUOTE]
Wait, are we playing the same game? ME3 had an excellent story. Like I said, all the missions before Thessia were very well written.
Or not.
How is it so fatttttt
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35550753]Wait, are we playing the same game? ME3 had an excellent story. Like I said, all the missions before Thessia were very well written.[/QUOTE]
Mass Effect 3 had a standard story. It's something we've been building up to since the end of the first game, so naturally it's going to feel satisfactory and epic. However, there are a lot of holes in it. For instance, the fact that Cerberus is trying to kill you for no reason whatsoever. Also, how you're in Alliance Prison for no reason whatsoever if you didn't play Arrival. Also how Liara is the Shadow Broker but can tell you a grand total of jack shit, and how you're completely railroaded as far as your character goes into "Weary Nice Guy" or "Gung Ho Psychopath" and there is nothing in-between.
The story is okay. Not great, but not bad, either. It has flaws, but it also has strong points. So, yeah, it's average.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35550753]Wait, are we playing the same game? ME3 had an excellent story. Like I said, all the missions before Thessia were very well written.[/QUOTE]
Hence the use of the word overall. Tuchanka, the Consensus, and the Silent Monastery are probably the best work done in ME and in an RPG period. Doesn't excuse all the other crap and overarcing badness. ME3 should have come out in Winter of next year, as a full product complete with peer reviewed and focus tested ending.
Even though I don't play multiplayer, volus would be an awesome race to play as
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35550855]Mass Effect 3 had a standard story. It's something we've been building up to since the end of the first game, so naturally it's going to feel satisfactory and epic. However, there are a lot of holes in it. For instance, the fact that Cerberus is trying to kill you for no reason whatsoever. Also, how you're in Alliance Prison for no reason whatsoever if you didn't play Arrival. Also how Liara is the Shadow Broker but can tell you a grand total of jack shit, and how you're completely railroaded as far as your character goes into "Weary Nice Guy" or "Gung Ho Psychopath" and there is nothing in-between.[/quote]
[QUOTE=27X;35550881]Hence the use of the word overall. Tuchanka, the Consensus, and the Silent Monastery are probably the best work done in ME and in an RPG period. Doesn't excuse all the other crap and overarcing badness. ME3 should have come out in Winter of next year, as a full product complete with peer reviewed and focus tested ending.[/QUOTE]
I think you guys are so focused on the bigger part of the story. Yea, there are plotholes(most can be explained away using "space magic" or "indoctrination"). Any story you can dig up is going to be either generic or somehow stupid, though. It's almost always "big monsters need to be killed" or "evil empire needs to be destroyed". These generic plots are just a vessel for the true storytelling that is going on.
These scenes are what made the Mass Effect 3 story great:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI_rTIp_vcI[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR3Uf074N7A[/media]
2:25 Onward
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-fACyZUp6Y[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgBDoN95eoo[/media]
These are the types of moments that make the ME3 story great. It isn't because they have this unique plot, or that it goes without any plot holes. It's great because despite that, it creates a convincing world that can be both funny and sad. It lets you become emotionally attached to the characters.
The plot is just the excuse the writer has to introduce you to the characters. A great plot without great characters is mediocre. A mediocre plot with excellent characters is still amazing.
[QUOTE=Ghost101;35549543]It's basically a piracy check. Force people to play MP, means less pirated copies, maybe less used copy sales cause of the online pass, even less rentals because of this. Though you can just edit the files if you don't care about MP.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't even fucking work, you can easily save edit in the ~1500 extra you need at 50% readiness
Don't care about MP as well. Anyway ME3, is done for me, until they release the post endings dlc.
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35550855]However, there are a lot of holes in it. For instance, the fact that Cerberus is trying to kill you for no reason whatsoever. Also, how you're in Alliance Prison for no reason whatsoever if you didn't play Arrival. [/QUOTE]
I thought Cerberus sided with Reapers? Or am I missing something?
And doesn't Arrival happen even if you don't have the DLC? It is implied so.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35551094]The plot is just the excuse the writer has to introduce you to the characters. A great plot without great characters is mediocre. A mediocre plot with excellent characters is still amazing.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you're a writer, based off of this alone.
Having good characters is important, but if you have a shitty plot it means those characters went to waste. I really can't care less about the characters in Mass Effect now, because the saga is over and everything I did for them means nothing. They'll stick with me, yeah, but probably only because I've played three games with them in them. If I had only played Mass Effect 1, I probably wouldn't remember them as well.
In order for a story to work it needs to both have good characters and a good plot. Plot is more important than characters, because you can easily nail some kind of archetype from real life and have them be satisfactory. A plot should not be used as a framing device for the characters. That is a really horrible mistake, and Mass Effect 3 obviously suffered for it. They thought "Hey let's have all the snarky bros and hot chicks that gamers love and then just get around to the plot later!"
I'm not saying the characters in Mass Effect 3 are bad. They're by far the best part of the game. I'm saying that they could not carry the game alone, which means that the story suffered for it.
[editline]13th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Nitro836;35551301]I thought Cerberus sided with Reapers? Or am I missing something?
And doesn't Arrival happen even if you don't have the DLC? It is implied so.[/QUOTE]
Cerberus work against the Reapers. The Illusive Man says so since the get-go, and Cerberus and The Reapers clash on a few occasions. The Illusive Man is indoctrinated, but he by no means wants to serve or even help The Reapers. He wants to subdue them.
Also, Arrival happened with a different team that didn't involve Shepard at all, if you didn't do the DLC. Admiral Hackett tells you that he sent a Special Operations team and they all died, but they got the job done. Still doesn't explain why you're in Alliance jail, especially if you had your Specter status re-instated in Mass Effect 2.
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35551314]I don't think you're a writer, based off of this alone.[/quote]
That isn't important because I am the reader. My word carries more weight than a writer's.
[quote]Having good characters is important, but if you have a shitty plot it means those characters went to waste. I really can't care less about the characters in Mass Effect now, because the saga is over and everything I did for them means nothing. They'll stick with me, yeah, but probably only because I've played three games with them in them. If I had only played Mass Effect 1, I probably wouldn't remember them as well.
In order for a story to work it needs to both have good characters and a good plot. Plot is more important than characters, because you can easily nail some kind of archetype from real life and have them be satisfactory. A plot should not be used as a framing device for the characters. That is a really horrible mistake, and Mass Effect 3 obviously suffered for it. They thought "Hey let's have all the snarky bros and hot chicks that gamers love and then just get around to the plot later!"
I'm not saying the characters in Mass Effect 3 are bad. They're by far the best part of the game. I'm saying that they could not carry the game alone, which means that the story suffered for it.
[/QUOTE]
So would you say Star Wars was a really shitty series then? There is nothing special about the plot of Star Wars. It is an archetype good underdog vs. evil empire story played out a million times in mythology. There is absolutely nothing compelling about the plot. The only thing that matters is that a world was created that is convincing, and filled with relateable characters. Mass Effect succeeded in that. The ending is the only part that really threw me out of the story because I was wondering what the fuck was going on.
As long as the plot is coherent, it doesn't really matter. It's all about character development and emotion.
[editline]13th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35551314]
Cerberus work against the Reapers. The Illusive Man says so since the get-go, and Cerberus and The Reapers clash on a few occasions. The Illusive Man is indoctrinated, but he by no means wants to serve or even help The Reapers. He wants to subdue them.[/quote]
Then why did he tell the Reapers what the Catalyst was? TIM was a puppet of the Reapers. Cerberus acted the way the Reapers wanted them to act for the most part. It was all to divide the galactic efforts to complete the super weapon and shit.
[quote]Also, Arrival happened with a different team that didn't involve Shepard at all, if you didn't do the DLC. Admiral Hackett tells you that he sent a Special Operations team and they all died, but they got the job done. Still doesn't explain why you're in Alliance jail, especially if you had your Specter status re-instated in Mass Effect 2.[/QUOTE]
No it doesn't. The canon event happened with Shepard. It doesn't matter that Hackett said something else. Shepard is responsible for the events in Arrival and that's why he is in jail. Anything else is just an excuse for the people who didn't play Arrival or started a new save on ME3.
[editline]13th April 2012[/editline]
They shouldn't have even made the excuse. It should have straight up said, "Yea, you did this shit Shepard. What? You don't remember? Well fuck you because it happened".
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;35545436]Also: [sp]Every homeworld but especially Earth is gonna have ridiculous amounts of infant deaths in the coming centuries due to eezo contamination. Fun![/sp][/QUOTE]
Indeed, [sp]but there's gonna be a hella ton of biotic kids if enough survive to form the right nodules. Dunno if Rannoch gets too much eezo exposure, or if there were enough quarian mommas that ended up exposed before they got their masks back on, but the possibilities of a quarian biotic,[/sp] even just the one, are still there.
Speaking about biotics, how cool would an elcor biotic be?
[QUOTE=supertribute;35551621]Funny and not late.[/QUOTE]
The first 3 were, I'm afraid.
Loved the fourth, though.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35546874][IMG]http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l316/lankist/typicaltennantepisode.gif[/IMG]
[editline]12th April 2012[/editline]
okay who the FUCK rated me disagree who do you think you are[/QUOTE]
Remember that drip on his nose that get's your attention :v:
[QUOTE=Errorproxy;35552465][img]http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5316/20120413045228.png[/img][/QUOTE]
Missing Goliath and Raptor
Ugh...7 Spectre crates and I only got Upgrades for the shitty Harpoon Gun and Geth SMG
I just want a new character [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smith.gif[/img]
Also, do Baterian Biotics exist?
I went on the "Internet," and I found THIS
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_la825vfAPF1qdjnebo1_400.gif[/img]
Ok, I discussed the game again today with a friend, he told me something I didn't notice. Now dare I ask if any of you guys understand that part, because I don't get it now that I'm aware of it. At the beginning, we have to assume that Shepard has been "detained" at the Alliance HQ for six months. That's because of the events in Arrival (I do remember that clearly). Anyway, at least "on Earth" if not only in that single building for six months. Alright, now the Reapers arrive, things blow up. We leave Earth on the Normandy and then, and only then, do we receive the transmission from Hackett. He tells us at that point specifically that we have to go on Mars because Liara was searching the Protheans caches and so on, that she found something.
Alright I get that part, it's the Crucible plot device's intro to the players. But there's a... problem? The thing is that for SIX MONTHS Shepard stays on Earth. During all that time, six months, Hackett never told Shepard about the "Prothean superweapon" or whatever they knew what Liara was searching on Mars? So, let's pretend that Liara told Hackett about what she had found on Mars say... at LEAST a few weeks BEFORE the Reapers arrive... then why would Hackett NOT tell Shepard about it BEFORE the Reapers arrive? It's so... cheesy. It's like... oh, look, are those things landing on my backyard and shooting big laser beams at us the so called Reapers? Ah I see, ok. Well I guess it's time we tell Shepard about what has been found on Mars huh? Alright, tell Hackett to contact Shepard, I think Shepard happens to be on the Normandy and is leaving Earth right now. Yeah, I know right? Good coincidence!
Seriously, who the hell hired Mac Walters?
[QUOTE=Molokk;35553264]Ok, I discussed the game again today with a friend, he told me something I didn't notice. Now dare I ask if any of you guys understand that part, because I don't get it now that I'm aware of it. At the beginning, we have to assume that Shepard has been "detained" at the Alliance HQ for six months. That's because of the events in Arrival (I do remember that clearly). Anyway, at least "on Earth" if not only in that single building for six months. Alright, now the Reapers arrive, things blow up. We leave Earth on the Normandy and then, and only then, do we receive the transmission from Hackett. He tells us at that point specifically that we have to go on Mars because Liara was searching the Protheans caches and so on, that she found something.
Alright I get that part, it's the Crucible plot device's intro to the players. But there's a... problem? The thing is that for SIX MONTHS Shepard stays on Earth. During all that time, six months, Hackett never told Shepard about the "Prothean superweapon" or whatever they knew what Liara was searching on Mars? So, let's pretend that Liara told Hackett about what she had found on Mars say... at LEAST a few weeks BEFORE the Reapers arrive... then why would Hackett NOT tell Shepard about it BEFORE the Reapers arrive? It's so... cheesy. It's like... oh, look, are those things landing on my backyard and shooting big laser beams at us the so called Reapers? Ah I see, ok. Well I guess it's time we tell Shepard about what has been found on Mars huh? Alright, tell Hackett to contact Shepard, I think Shepard happens to be on the Normandy and is leaving Earth right now. Yeah, I know right? Good coincidence!
Seriously, who the hell hired Mac Walters?[/QUOTE]
Shepard was stripped of his/her military rank. (S)he wasn't on the need to know list.
That's what I think.
[QUOTE=Scar;35553102]Ugh...7 Spectre crates and I only got Upgrades for the shitty Harpoon Gun and Geth SMG
I just want a new character [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smith.gif[/img]
Also, do Baterian Biotics exist?[/QUOTE]
Resurgance weekend, everyone will get one.
[QUOTE=Molokk;35553264]Ok, I discussed the game again today with a friend, he told me something I didn't notice. Now dare I ask if any of you guys understand that part, because I don't get it now that I'm aware of it. At the beginning, we have to assume that Shepard has been "detained" at the Alliance HQ for six months. That's because of the events in Arrival (I do remember that clearly). Anyway, at least "on Earth" if not only in that single building for six months. Alright, now the Reapers arrive, things blow up. We leave Earth on the Normandy and then, and only then, do we receive the transmission from Hackett. He tells us at that point specifically that we have to go on Mars because Liara was searching the Protheans caches and so on, that she found something.
Alright I get that part, it's the Crucible plot device's intro to the players. But there's a... problem? The thing is that for SIX MONTHS Shepard stays on Earth. During all that time, six months, Hackett never told Shepard about the "Prothean superweapon" or whatever they knew what Liara was searching on Mars? So, let's pretend that Liara told Hackett about what she had found on Mars say... at LEAST a few weeks BEFORE the Reapers arrive... then why would Hackett NOT tell Shepard about it BEFORE the Reapers arrive? It's so... cheesy. It's like... oh, look, are those things landing on my backyard and shooting big laser beams at us the so called Reapers? Ah I see, ok. Well I guess it's time we tell Shepard about what has been found on Mars huh? Alright, tell Hackett to contact Shepard, I think Shepard happens to be on the Normandy and is leaving Earth right now. Yeah, I know right? Good coincidence!
Seriously, who the hell hired Mac Walters?[/QUOTE]
Shepard was in jail being detained on earth because of arrival
she/he wasn't restated in the military until anderson did
[QUOTE=SFC3;35553395]Shepard was in jail being detained on earth because of arrival
she/he wasn't restated in the military until anderson did[/QUOTE]
If you didn't do arrival they never say, so its assumed Sheps detained due to working for Cerberus.
[QUOTE=SFC3;35553395]Shepard was in jail being detained on earth because of arrival
she/he wasn't restated in the military until anderson did[/QUOTE]
So why do they ask Shepard what to do, if when they ask him/her Anderson still hasn't reinstated Shepard in the Alliance at that point? If Shepard has no "right to know" (for example) then why would the Alliance committee/council cry to Shepard in the first place? I don't get it. They know anyway that Shepard is the only person in the building, and probably on Earth whom dealt with a Reaper in the past (Sovereign). And even if they didn't believe in Reapers, when they (Reapers) arrive and literally land next to the Alliance HQ building it's kinda clear that at point that Reapers are real (and damn it's stupid that only now that they're in our backyard suddenly the threat of the Reapers is real). They should have told Shepard days, weeks if not months prior to the Reapers' arrival about what had been found on Mars. But nooooo... let's leave logic behind for a plot device to work out by coincidence, but let's hope that the player will either not see it as a coincidence or will rely on suspension of disbelief to make sense out of the nonsense.
[QUOTE=Molokk;35553264]Ok, I discussed the game again today with a friend, he told me something I didn't notice. Now dare I ask if any of you guys understand that part, because I don't get it now that I'm aware of it. At the beginning, we have to assume that Shepard has been "detained" at the Alliance HQ for six months. That's because of the events in Arrival (I do remember that clearly). Anyway, at least "on Earth" if not only in that single building for six months. Alright, now the Reapers arrive, things blow up. We leave Earth on the Normandy and then, and only then, do we receive the transmission from Hackett. He tells us at that point specifically that we have to go on Mars because Liara was searching the Protheans caches and so on, that she found something.
Alright I get that part, it's the Crucible plot device's intro to the players. But there's a... problem? The thing is that for SIX MONTHS Shepard stays on Earth. During all that time, six months, Hackett never told Shepard about the "Prothean superweapon" or whatever they knew what Liara was searching on Mars? So, let's pretend that Liara told Hackett about what she had found on Mars say... at LEAST a few weeks BEFORE the Reapers arrive... then why would Hackett NOT tell Shepard about it BEFORE the Reapers arrive? It's so... cheesy. It's like... oh, look, are those things landing on my backyard and shooting big laser beams at us the so called Reapers? Ah I see, ok. Well I guess it's time we tell Shepard about what has been found on Mars huh? Alright, tell Hackett to contact Shepard, I think Shepard happens to be on the Normandy and is leaving Earth right now. Yeah, I know right? Good coincidence!
Seriously, who the hell hired Mac Walters?[/QUOTE]
It's not uncommon for for criminals of that magnitude be given total communication blackout.
[editline]13th April 2012[/editline]
motherfucker convinced saren to shoot himself in the head, I don't even want to know what he can do over the phone.
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