Mass Effect Megathread: DING DONG BANNU edition - Games

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35558912]Probably because Shepard was working with Cerberus.[/QUOTE] That's what I said originally back down the line of quotes :)

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35558912]Probably because Shepard was working with Cerberus.[/QUOTE] That makes no sense at all. Nobody really had a problem with it in ME2. So Shepard destroys the Collectors, saves the galaxy for a second time, and he gets arrested for it? It doesn't make an ounce of sense.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35558912]Probably because Shepard was working with Cerberus.[/QUOTE] No. It was made known to both the Alliance and The Council during ME2 that Shepard was working with Cerberus and both disapproved but they didn't give enough of a shit to arrest Shepard. They both find out around the middle of the game. It wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly haul you in after the ending, especially if you gave Cerberus the middle finger. It makes no sense that you're in jail at the beginning, if you didn't do Arrival. It's a big gaping plot hole.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35558919]They can suck it if they don't like that deal. "Boo hoo I didn't play the story the game should still cater to me". Are you saying that we should all play as Collectors in Mass Effect 3 since I didn't play ME2 and therefore never destroyed the Collector Base? Should ME1 & 2 be free because they are so vitally important to the story of 3? [B] Arrival puts the beginning of ME3 in context. Without it, there is no context. Players who didn't play Arrival shouldn't be punished with a ridiculous intro that makes no sense.[/B][/QUOTE] Because Bioware's already proven they're masters at context with the ending of their flagship series. [QUOTE=yawmwen;35558955]That makes no sense at all. Nobody really had a problem with it in ME2. So Shepard destroys the Collectors, saves the galaxy for a second time, and he gets arrested for it? It doesn't make an ounce of sense.[/QUOTE] Masters at making sense as well.

[QUOTE=Greeneyes;35558887]and boobs.[/QUOTE] And thus Asari became galactic rulers.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35558959]No. It was made known to both the Alliance and The Council during ME2 that Shepard was working with Cerberus and [B]both disapproved but they didn't give enough of a shit to arrest Shepard.[/B] They both find out around the middle of the game. It wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly haul you in after the ending, especially if you gave Cerberus the middle finger. It makes no sense that you're in jail at the beginning, if you didn't do Arrival. It's a big gaping plot hole.[/QUOTE] It was only the Council that didn't give a shit. The dossiers between Hackett and the rest of Alliance High Command basically proves everyone [I]but[/I] Hackett was out to arrest Shepard.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35558999]It was only the Council that didn't give a shit. The dossiers between Hackett and the rest of Alliance High Command basically proves everyone [I]but[/I] Hackett was out to arrest Shepard.[/QUOTE] Ok, lets look at it from this perspective. Shepard killed 300,000+ innocent Batarians to destroy a relay and delay the Reapers for a few months to a couple years. He gets put in house arrest. Shepard works with Cerberus and saves the galaxy, and gets the exact same punishment as killing thousands of innocents. Something is not adding up here. [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35558967]Because Bioware's already proven they're masters at context with the ending of their flagship series. Master at making sense as well.[/QUOTE] Yea, Bioware making Arrival [I]optional[/I] storywise was another mistake. There is no need to sacrifice plot for the sake of choice. Bioware fucked up in quite a few ways throughout the series. Absolutely no one is arguing that. I'm arguing that having Arrival as a choice was a stupid move. Whether someone played Arrival or not it should be assumed that Shepard was responsible.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35558999]It was only the Council that didn't give a shit. The dossiers between Hackett and the rest of Alliance High Command basically proves everyone [I]but[/I] Hackett was out to arrest Shepard.[/QUOTE] If the Council didn't give a shit and they reinstated your Specter status, the Alliance can go suck a dick. They don't have any authority over Shepard, especially because he isn't even a member of the Alliance after his death. If they arrested him they'd be directly defying the Council, and that's obviously a bad thing to do, judging from Mass Effect 1. [editline]13th April 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;35559053]Ok, lets look at it from this perspective. Shepard killed 300,000+ innocent Batarians to destroy a relay and delay the Reapers for a few months to a couple years. He gets put in house arrest. Shepard works with Cerberus and saves the galaxy, and gets the exact same punishment as killing thousands of innocents. Something is not adding up here.[/QUOTE] It doesn't add up even if you DID do Arrival. Once you get onto the Citadel in Mass Effect 3 it claims you're still a Specter, provided you got reinstated in 2, so the Alliance would have no business arresting you. Specters do what they want and nobody can tell them otherwise but the Council.

got the diciple and kishock sniper rifle in one super premium pack. Words cannot express how badly I want the saber or talon.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35559055] It doesn't add up even if you DID do Arrival. Once you get onto the Citadel in Mass Effect 3 it claims you're still a Specter, provided you got reinstated in 2, so the Alliance would have no business arresting you. Specters do what they want and nobody can tell them otherwise but the Council.[/QUOTE] It makes a lot more sense, and I'm willing to look over the inconsistency since you [I]did[/I] kill thousands of innocent people. [editline]13th April 2012[/editline] I mean, even with Spectre status, the Batarians don't recognize it. It caused an intergalactic incident and it was in the Alliance's best interest to appease the Batarians by arresting Shepard.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35559221]It makes a lot more sense, and I'm willing to look over the inconsistency since you [I]did[/I] kill thousands of innocent people.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't. Either way you shouldn't have been in prison. You killed thousands of innocents, but you're a Specter. Specters are given free reign to do whatever they feel they need to, to get the job done. In this specific situation there really wasn't a way to do it without killing thousands of innocents, and so that's what Shepard did. The only set of circumstances in which the beginning of Mass Effect 3 makes sense is if you played Arrival and you never got your Specter status re-instated in ME2.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35559053] [B] Shepard works with Cerberus and saves the galaxy, and gets the exact same punishment as killing thousands of innocents. Something is not adding up here.[/B] [/QUOTE] Because the Alliance apparently see's working with Cerberus on the same level of bad as carving a swastika in your forehead and gutting a few babies. In comparison, the Alliance doesn't really care that you killed a few hundred thousand Batarians (Hackett basically says this) but has to put up a token trial with minimal punishment to keep the Hegemony from throwing a giant hissy fit. Given Shepard's importance to the Alliance (the Admirals call him in at the beginning of ME3 not for a trial, but to discuss fighting the Reapers) and the two roughly equal out into house arrest. [quote] Yea, Bioware making Arrival optional storywise was another mistake. There is no need to sacrifice plot for the sake of choice. Bioware fucked up in quite a few ways throughout the series. Absolutely no one is arguing that. I'm arguing that having Arrival as a choice was a stupid move. Whether someone played Arrival or not it should be assumed that Shepard was responsible. [/quote] Except the entire point of Mass Effect is about choice, and that's one of the big things that have been iffing fans of the series throughout Mass Effect 3. Mr. Scorpio's argued about the whole Shepard = PC and Bioware = DM comparison enough in previous threads about this.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35559055]If the Council didn't give a shit and they reinstated your Specter status, the Alliance can go suck a dick. They don't have any authority over Shepard, especially because he isn't even a member of the Alliance after his death. If they arrested him they'd be directly defying the Council, and that's obviously a bad thing to do, judging from Mass Effect 1. [editline]13th April 2012[/editline] It doesn't add up even if you DID do Arrival. Once you get onto the Citadel in Mass Effect 3 it claims you're still a Specter, provided you got reinstated in 2, so the Alliance would have no business arresting you. Specters do what they want and nobody can tell them otherwise but the Council.[/QUOTE] Well a Paragon Shepard does it because it's the "right" thing to do and to show that he is still responsible for his actions. Not sure about Renegade.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35559275]No it doesn't. Either way you shouldn't have been in prison. You killed thousands of innocents, but you're a Specter. Specters are given free reign to do whatever they feel they need to, to get the job done. In this specific situation there really wasn't a way to do it without killing thousands of innocents, and so that's what Shepard did. The only set of circumstances in which the beginning of Mass Effect 3 makes sense is if you played Arrival and you never got your Specter status re-instated in ME2.[/QUOTE] In DnD terms this would be called, "Railroading." Bioware didn't want their precious beginning to be altered in a substantial way, so they just assumed off screen that Arrival happened by someone else's hand and let the player "think up" why they're in jail.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;35559275]No it doesn't. Either way you shouldn't have been in prison. You killed thousands of innocents, but you're a Specter. Specters are given free reign to do whatever they feel they need to, to get the job done. In this specific situation there really wasn't a way to do it without killing thousands of innocents, and so that's what Shepard did. The only set of circumstances in which the beginning of Mass Effect 3 makes sense is if you played Arrival and you never got your Specter status re-instated in ME2.[/QUOTE] Again, when it causes such a political incident the Alliance was in a position where they had to arrest Shepard. I would assume Shepard agreed for the sake of galactic peace. It doesn't make sense to have a war between the Batarians and Alliance when there is an imminent Reaper invasion. [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35559305]Because the Alliance apparently see's working with Cerberus on the same level of bad as carving a swastika in your forehead and gutting a few babies. In comparison, the Alliance doesn't really care that you killed a few hundred thousand Batarians (Hackett basically says this) but has to put up a token trial with minimal punishment to keep the Hegemony from throwing a giant hissy fit. Given Shepard's importance to the Alliance (the Admirals call him in at the beginning of ME3 not for a trial, but to discuss fighting the Reapers) and the two roughly equal out into house arrest.[/quote] There is no reason to arrest Shepard for saving the galaxy. No one gave a shit in the game except a few people in Alliance High Command, and I'm sure that they can overlook the Cerberus involvement since it saved countless colonists. [quote]Except the entire point of Mass Effect is about choice, and that's one of the big things that have been iffing fans of the series throughout Mass Effect 3. Mr. Scorpio's argued about the whole Shepard = PC and Bioware = DM comparison enough in previous threads about this.[/QUOTE] Choice is worthless if the choice interferes with the plot. That's why there are parts where you have no fucking choice. Oh, you want to join Sovereign and destroy the galaxy? Too fucking bad because you don't get that choice.

[QUOTE=GetBent;35559309]Well a Paragon Shepard does it because it's the "right" thing to do and to show that he is still responsible for his actions. Not sure about Renegade.[/QUOTE] You're going to get arrested period, spectre or no. You colluded with Cerberus and/or killed ALLIANCE operatives of your own volition and admission. You're going to a hearing.

One of the biggest complaints about the ending of ME3 is the fact that you even get a choice! That's where the whole indoctrination theory comes from in the first place. People said that there shouldn't have been a choice to control or co-exist with the Reapers.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35559400] There is no reason to arrest Shepard for saving the galaxy. No one gave a shit in the game except a few people in Alliance High Command, and I'm sure that they can overlook the Cerberus involvement since it saved countless colonists. [/QUOTE] Just because you're Commander Shepard doesn't mean you're above the law. Shepard was outright [I]built[/I] by Cerberus using Cerberus parts, an organization that injected Thresher Maw blood into a shellshocked soldier just to "see what happens" and kidnapped biotic children to turn them into loyal supersoldiers. This is worth at least a bit of light-security imprisonment.

Fancy how Alliance operatives have to save up their money to get new tools and guns in happy meal boxes. Shepard just finds those lying around on the floor. And then he uses his magic Dead Island bench to upgrade them.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35559427]One of the biggest complaints about the ending of ME3 is the fact that you even get a choice! That's where the whole indoctrination theory comes from in the first place. People said that there shouldn't have been a choice to control or co-exist with the Reapers.[/QUOTE] Except the biggest complaint about the ending of ME3 wasn't there was a choice, but that the choices given didn't make any sense (along with the ending in general.) Why give the illusion of choice when the only difference is a blue or red hued explosion? [editline]13th April 2012[/editline] It's the responsibility of Bioware to account for all possible outcomes and alter their game accordingly where it's applicable, and that's what they did with making Shepard's imprisonment in the beginning ambiguous to either the events of Arrival, or Shepard's involvement with Cerberus. Forcing the player into a certain reason for a situation even when there's perfectly acceptable alternatives (Cerberus agent built out of Reaper tech, etc.) is tantamount to Bioware shoving their fingers in their ears while screeching that you're hurting their artistic integrity by making a game entirely about player choice... Not about player choice.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35559510]Just because you're Commander Shepard doesn't mean you're above the law. Shepard was outright [I]built[/I] by Cerberus using Cerberus parts, an organization that injected Thresher Maw blood into a shellshocked soldier just to "see what happens" and kidnapped biotic children to turn them into loyal supersoldiers. This is worth at least a bit of light-security imprisonment.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't. Shepard fucking saves the galaxy and fucks shit up. The Alliance is in no position to arrest him, especially when Shepard isn't even responsible for any of the other fucked up shit Cerberus has done. [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35559527]Except the biggest complaint about the ending of ME3 wasn't there was a choice, but that the choices given didn't make any sense (along with the ending in general.) Why give the illusion of choice when the only difference is a blue or red hued explosion? [editline]13th April 2012[/editline] It's the responsibility of Bioware to account for all possible outcomes and alter their game accordingly where it's applicable, and that's what they did with making Shepard's imprisonment in the beginning ambiguous to either the events of Arrival, or Shepard's involvement with Cerberus.[/QUOTE] So would no choice have been preferable to the choices presented? This supports my claim that choice is worthless when it interferes with the plot. That's a failing of Bioware. Either they should give us choice that makes sense, or take away the choice.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35559605] So would no choice have been preferable to the choices presented? This supports my claim that choice is worthless when it interferes with the plot. That's a failing of Bioware. [B]Either they should give us choice that makes sense, or take away the choice.[/B][/QUOTE] They gave us choice that makes sense by letting us either get put under house arrest for Cerberus involvement, or put under house arrest for killing a couple hundred thousand Batarians. Look, I think the better question to ask here is; "Should we assume Shepard actually did DLC the player did not purchase, or assume it was completed by a third-party?" If I never played Bring Down The Sky, I would certainly not expect Balak to just shove a gun in the back of my head while talking about how I stopped him on an Asteroid I have no memory of landing on.

[QUOTE=27X;35559424]You're going to get arrested period, spectre or no. You colluded with Cerberus and/or killed ALLIANCE operatives of your own volition and admission. You're going to a hearing.[/QUOTE] Actually the entire point of being a Specter is that you are above the law. You can do whatever you want and kill whoever you want, and as long as the Council doesn't have a problem with it, you can't be punished for it.

Kinda related, but am I the only one who thinks the intro sucks? IMO, the first hour shouldn't have involed any fighting, it should have been talking to different Alliance Admirals, advising them on how to prepare, an actual trial, in which you can prove your innocence, and so on. It felt REALLY rushed for me

[QUOTE=Scar;35559659]It felt REALLY rushed for me[/QUOTE] 90 percent of ME3 feels rushed

You know what would've made Mass Effect 3 so much better? Less Vega more Wrex seriously, I get Wrex has shit to do, but you could've shoehorned it in. Explain that Wrex has been mentoring Grunt to be his underling, and in Wrex's abscence, Grunt is in charge. Woulda worked for me. Brogans are always better than roid monkeys.

[QUOTE=Sardonus;35559736]You know what would've made Mass Effect 3 so much better? Less Vega more Wrex seriously, I get Wrex has shit to do, but you could've shoehorned it in. Explain that Wrex has been mentoring Grunt to be his underling, and in Wrex's abscence, Grunt is in charge. Woulda worked for me. Brogans are always better than roid monkeys.[/QUOTE] Yeah, and Wrex doesn't give people retarded Nicknames

HEY LOCO

Even worse with FemShep HAI LOLA

I miss Wrex so fucking much Wrex is genuinely one of my favorite characters in fiction ever. Go through any of his dialogue in Mass Effect 1. Try not to love him.