How would I go about getting into game design? - Games

How would I go about getting into game design?

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[QUOTE=taipan;17705590][B]-Concept artist[/B] -Npc's and creatures -Terrain and enviroment -yadda yadda -Artwork -Mood bords [B]Coder[/B] -AI -Engine -Scripts -Movement -UI -Graphics -ect ect [B]Modeling[/B] -Characters -Buildings -Enviroment -Cars -Weapons -ect [B]Mappers[/B] -Enviroment -AI -Scripting -Immersion [B] Quality control[/B] -Playtesting -Making error messages (really) -ect Just be good at one of these Mkay? -[/QUOTE] This is a good list over stuff you would need to know to somehow relate to game developing BUT he missed one thing, the most important thing i'd say, something like Leading Designer or Project Leader, you need to have leadership skills (basically you have to make everyone to do their part of work to finish the project), without someone in charge of the Project they often fails, the additional thing is that Project Leader should know every part of game developing, best type of person for that role is a Jack-of-all-Trades that is capable of "controlling" people.

[QUOTE=Slasha00;17705960]You didn't really try to help him. Instead you tried to tell him that it takes more work then he thinks it does (Which is a horrible assumption considering he said he knows NOTHING about it so there is no need for you to be a prick; Listen to how you sound in your posts without any ego and you'll see that you were being an asshole.)[/QUOTE] I couldn't actually tell what he knew because before that, he didn't even list some information. And I actually was under the (cautious) assumption this was a 14 year old thinking he was good at games makes him a mastermind in understanding the design of it. I don't think that now though :smile: [editline]02:35PM[/editline] [QUOTE=johngrimm;17707110]Actually "Ideas Guy" and team manager is basically what a Lead Designer or general game designer is. You have a background in art, programming or design but your main purpose on the team is cohesiveness and leadership. If they work well and the team can accomplish them, your ideas will define the game. So yes going into actual Game Design is being the "Ideas Guy". However you have to trudge through the shit times, art design or coding, before you can occupy the big chair.[/QUOTE] True, but what you said about trudging the shit gives you a vision on how to fill that role the best.

[QUOTE=DarkWolf2;17707223]I couldn't actually tell what he knew because before that, he didn't even list some information. And I actually was under the (cautious) assumption this was a 14 year old thinking he was good at games makes him a mastermind in understanding the design of it. I don't think that now though :smile: [editline]02:35PM[/editline] True, but what you said about trudging the shit gives you a vision on how to fill that role the best.[/QUOTE] Well these days you can trudge through the shit times while you're in college. Most people with a BA degree in game design can become actual game designers, chances are you won't be working at a big name AAA studio like Valve, Blizzard or EA but you can definitely find work in smaller studios unless you have an absolutely amazing resume. Still it's a good idea to start a career in game design in small studios as a lead design role, you can be really skilled in art and coding but experience will be the deciding factor on whether or not you get the job.

I've had various paid jobs working on games, and people who work in the industry fucking HATE people like you. The ones with no skills or talents; those who have nothing to contribute but 'ideas' Trying to be "Ideas Guy" will get you nowhere

Best way to get experience in the video game development field would be to make mods, try making a mod on the source engine, then when you approach potential employers they can see just how good you are

If you call art / programming or whatever field you're in before reaching a top-level position 'shit times', you're in, and aiming for the wrong job. Top level design jobs are usually pretty technical and filled by an experienced games programmer with management experience. [QUOTE=DarkWolf2;17692892]You've got to be kidding. Half of the kids want "Professional game designer" and think they're up to it because they're 1337 in Doom and COD4. Did you do any research as what a game designer does? Do you know how to analyze markets for potentional gaps. Do you know how to draw? Do you know how to work in a team with other artists? And that's only 10 percent of what a game designer does, let alone the chance of being accepted for the job.[/QUOTE] Designers don't generally deal with marketing. That's for the producer and the marketing team to deal with - junior level 'designers' don't even think about marketing. Designers may also not be artists. I have a couple of friends who worked in a 'design' role before moving into a junior programming position, and it was their task to write documentation, and lots of it. Documentation is where a designer generally spends most of his/her time, unless they're specifically doing tasks like level design or concept art. Either way, 'designer' is still such a pointlessly broad term that it's falling out of use for anything other than documenting-style positions or lead-level positions anyway. [QUOTE=Clever-Balls;17692928]I don't play COD4 or Doom, Doom was genre defineing but it's now an awful game.[/QUOTE] If you think that, then chances are you're not cut out to be a designer. Doom wasn't just 'genre defining', it's a highly recogniseable, solid title, and one of the most successful game franchises of all time. The original game in it's ported forms still sell large numbers of copies [i]now[/i]. [QUOTE=Clever-Balls;17693630]I'm not interested in joining a company that churns out shit games (EA for example) Only companys that will actually listen to my ideas, and not fuck them up during creation.[/QUOTE] EA don't make 'shit games'. It's a fact of life that their in house developers are still top dogs in the market and the quality of their products, regardless of being rushed and/or buggy. They might not be the most creative of sorts, but they're successful. But this sounds to me like you're not familiar with the games industry. AAA games are not the majority of the market, and not all of the games industry is geared towards this kind of Hollywood rivalry, the same way not all of television programs are geared towards being Hollywood films. There are developers that produce titles for mobile products, simple web games, games integrated with lighweight hardware, even whole teams who do nothing but port games to alternative platforms, or produce technology for use by other companies. Someone made Solitaire, and Freecell that comes free with Windows, after all. All of these teams will employ 'designers' in one form or another. There's also never one solid 'idea' thrown out by one man for any major game. Your companies next title, unless you're already a huge named designer is probably going to be decided by your publisher. As a developer, you get a limited amount of freedom. If the publisher says Vampires aren't going to be hot in three years time, then you're not going to make that vampire game no matter how good you think your 'ideas' are, because that money isn't coming from nowhere. If you value your ideas so much, gunning at AAA isn't necessarily liable to take you too far. [QUOTE=lettuce_head;17693703]You don't have to be able to draw to be a game designer. In fact, nowadays there's so many people working on one game that each person's job will be quite specific. A game designer is probably not a specific enough term, you could be designing characters, weapons, be a concept artist. In fact I've seen in games credits that there are people whos whole job in the project was to decide what font the credits should be in. I recommend trying to get any sort of job at a games company, and then working your way up, just to get your foot in the door. I know a guy who started work at a TV studio (Sky TV to be precise) in the kitchens as a cleaner, and now, a couple of years later he is one of the lead designers in the News studio.[/QUOTE] This is all sound advice. What you may see in credits as a 'design' team are usually people performing a myriad of different roles and being grouped together. Each of these individuals may have a very different, specific title, from concept artists, to level designers (and there are even different types of concept artist and level designer these days). [QUOTE=Lucid Meerkat;17694143]Edit: England, 2 years for a level 3 course. I doubt it's as in depth as the course in Brazil (Edit: That's why, it's in a university, the one i'm doing is in college!). I havn't been in the course for very long though and most of the core units, which are Media based such as advertising and understanding the market (D=), are being done on the first year and I don't have the file up to see the units that i'll probably be doing next year.[/QUOTE] I'm assuming you're talking about the new BTech (or whatever it is?) in 'Game Design / Development'? I looked into taking a job teaching that at a private college early this year but was admittedly not very impressed by it's content (and more specifically, that particular colleges approach to teaching it). My major gripes with it was that a fairly significant portion of the course wasn't directly relevant (for example, in the first year, the students would do web design on a Mac), and that it had no direction what-so-ever; trying to get students to do a little bit of art, a little bit of programming and a little bit of audio, as well as some review and writing. The trouble with it was, it spent so much time trying to cover as many unimportant bases as possible, that it completely missed the point and never went into enough depth for a student to actually learn anything. Of course, I've only seen this as presented by this particular college - and the course leader there was entirely clueless and unqualified for the role; being a dialogue writer isn't enough experience to be leading a game development course. You'll have to let me know the specifics, and how you get on, because I'm genuinely curious to see how it's set up elsewhere. It's a perfectly fine qualification for the purposes of credit and applying to a university and such like (and looks reasonable on paper, no doubt), but I felt it needs focus. [QUOTE=KillerTV;17694310]So your choice that is left over is to go to university in some for of Games Design course for 3 years. Desperately hope you can get some form of job in a games company, wow them by being awesome as shit with a thousand incredible ideas, then eventually get your dream job. Unfortunately you're looking at perhaps the hardest job to actually get your foot in the door with. Nobody is going to trust you with their budget if you just have a good idea, you need more than that.[/QUOTE] Game Design degrees are a double-edged sword, and a lot of the more veteran people in the industry do not find them to be a favourable diploma (and many believe them to be a complete waste of time). These are the people that do the hiring and firing. You're much better off with a more generic related degree (Computer Science or a 3d Art heavy degree), as these are both established, and employers are much more familiar with graduates coming from these backgrounds. Either way, having a degree doesn't get you a job in the Games Industry anyway, and you may be surprised to find that a fairly large proportion of those currently working within it (the notable exception being perhaps the programmers) don't even have one. It's your portfolio of work that counts; demonstrable ability to get art assets in a game-ready format and into a game, or even better, demos that people can actually sit back and play with. This you have to do off your own back - although a specifically art or technically orientated Games degree can help you get on that path. It does however show far more willing and dedication if your degree is a more generic one, and you've done the extra work and learning entirely off your own back and through your own interests, rather than serving the interests of completing a course; and a lot of employers will lean that way. [QUOTE=kyselina;17695117]What programming languages are the most common for making video games?[/QUOTE] The predominant language is C++, as the language is flexible and the compiler is capable of generating some fairly efficient code. However, C# and Java are also employed to a fair extent, often in smaller projects or mobile projects, such as for example Live Arcade games, or games intended for mobile devices such as phones. [QUOTE=DarkWolf2;17695142]C, and sometimes their in-house engine.[/QUOTE] The last game I heard of using C was Quake 3 - and that was considered to be a very 'behind the times' move by iD Software back then, in 1998. Engines are not languages, languages are not engines. In-house engines are almost always written in C++, given that an 'engine' usually means that a larger, more versatile project is needed. If you don't know the difference between a programming language and an engine, don't comment; it's like not knowing the difference between a pen and ink. [QUOTE=MUTTS01001;17696558]One thing I can't stress enough though is the importance of a personality and something a bit extra, you can have the best portfolio and can be the most naturally talented person in the room but if you can’t communicate with a group of people or have something a little bit extra in terms of life experiences then you’re not going to get the job, you need something to make you stand out from the slurry of 1000+ people who are fresh out of university looking for a job in the industry. I was talking with my lecturer the other day and he said that one of Unreals employment tactics is to take you out for a pint to see if you get on well with the people you’re going to be working with and if you don’t then no job for you.[/QUOTE] That would be Epic Games (not 'Unreal', that's a technology set / IP), and no, they don't do that - but it's certainly a legitimate strategy. Generally, you couldn't do that though, without performing your interview outside of office hours, and with a candidate who isn't travelling to the company for said interview (and most people have to travel a fair distance). Don't also forget, that a lot of juniors could be under the legal age for drinking anyway. Either way, this is coming down to portfolio again, it really is critical. Mod work is a good way of demonstrating your work and contributing to your portfolio, as it demonstrates your ability to work in a team, as well as your ability to produce assets. Team work is a huge factor from the smallest to the biggest companies out there. [QUOTE=johngrimm;17697579]If you want to go into game design there are several accredited schools that industry officials will recognize and not scoff at when you show them a resume. DO NOT look into 3 year technical schools like Full-Sail or Collin's College. If they have advertisements in magazines or on TV chances are you don't want to go there. I'm currently at Savannah College of Art and Design with several avenues for Game Design Majors. There are others with better credentials such as Carnegie Mellon however these are very competitive schools are not easy to get into. If you really want to get into game design the best way to show you're capable and able to manage a team is to make a mod. Mapping, in Hammer or in the Unreal engine, is also something you should look into and familiarize yourself with immediately. Still a total conversion mod of any kind will really grab the attention of a studio, you'll want to go through school first obviously but it's something that will really make you stand out.[/QUOTE] Definitely sound advice. Generally, the big, expensive 'for profit' colleges and universities are a complete and utter waste of time. Full-Sail is a classic example of this; especially when they offer 'compressed' course that try and force-feed you as much information as quickly as possible in order to get you out of the door faster. Firstly, it doesn't work, because you need time to take these things in, do your own reading and research, and of course, do your own additional work. Secondly, it falls down because the institution is less interested in teaching than it is about making a profit. I've worked with (3d art) students from Savannah before however, and they've been pretty reasonable. Mapping isn't necessarily something I'd stress as a necessary skill - not unless you're looking to specifically become a level designer. It's good to know, but there's an awful lot of extra theory and practice behind good level design, and that varies significantly from genre to genre. Knowing a level design tool is always good to know, but if you're aiming for a specifically technical or art orientated role, it's not all that useful, especially seeing as you'll probably end up working with different genres and different tools anyway. [QUOTE=KorJax;17701772]Pretty much it. Weither you like it or not, game designers are technical artists. It's more about just wanting to make something that isn't a rehash. It's about developing a killer portfolio that sells yourself to game development companies and makes them go, "Wow, this guy really gets it. He [I]really [/I]gets it, and he's got a passion for interactivity".[/quote] I wouldn't use the term 'technical artist' - because that's a very specific games industry term for a particular talent that ties art and progamming together - for example a shader artist, or someone who programs animation based systems. Either way, this is also fairly sound advice. [QUOTE=KorJax;17701772]I've got big dreams of being in game design myself, but it's not because I fancy the idea of making a game that isn't a rehash, it's because what games mean on a deeper level facinates me, the idea of being able to create another world with it's own rules and laws is my ultimate dream. I've always been the kid who's played with legos, imagining all sorts of situations. Imagining worlds, or creating an experience that genuinely invokes a feeling or a reaction in a player... that's what I want to do.[/quote] This is something that all game developers should really have. The aim is to be a part of the team that produces these kinds of things. When you're out there, in the industry, you can take pride in that work, and all of your contributions to it. Hardly anyone ever gets to that 'top dog' position, and there can't be more than a few hundred people in a top level design position [i]worldwide[/i]. [QUOTE=KorJax;17701772]You can't just say "I want be a game designer!", decide to join a school about game design and jump into a job. Well I suppose you can, but taking that route won't actually get you designing games but doing grunt work. Some of the best game designers out there didn't even have a game dev degree... they have everything from psychology to graphic arts to computer sciences. What got them to be a game developer was a passion for that medium, and the skill to create a portfolio that sings. As a matter of fact 99% of game dev companies don't even require a degree, all they care about are the actual skills you have, and if you've got the "heart" to be a game developer. That said game development is high competetive, and honestly 50% of it is purely who you know (aka "networking"). Someone who's got ties with a company is much more likely to get hired than someone who isn't. Because of this I am studying a related field but with a different medium: graphic design. The elements of design are still there, except it applies to printed materials/web instead of interactive game design. If I can't get into the industry even with my modding experience atleast I can have my chances at getting in a related industry that shares many of the same base concepts. Even with my modding experience I'm trying to rack up and the year and a half I've been studying graphic design there is still a lot more for me to learn about what it takes to actually make a compelling design from start to finish. Hell it involves more than just a game, it involves every aspect of your life. Being a designer is hard work and ideas are a dime a dozen. The best designers are those who stretch their social bounderies, maybe travel the world to broden their mental horizions... perhaps they are the people who really understand the world. Because perhaps in order to make a world, you have to understand the one you live in/[/quote] ^ This.

My friend is taking it at college. Try that...

I did animation at university and could've gone on to do game design. Try that.

[QUOTE=Dr Nick;17705223]He's a bad troll.[/QUOTE] technically trolling is bad, but I'm not a troll.

It looks like the guys who think that they know what game designers do don't actually know that much themselves. Game designers rarely draw so that's definitely not a requirement. [B]The most important feature in a game designer is communication.[/B] He's the link between the artistic and programming people, describing in detail on how features work and communicating with AD and the concept artists to define the looks. While game design may look easy on paper, just sitting around and throwing ideas around, it's one of the most difficult jobs in the video game industry. You need to have a basic understanding on what's possible on the hardware, programming and art-wise. That's called technical game design. He fleshes out the game mechanics and features in the design documents. That's the backbone of the game, it's what all the people will rely on and reference to as the project goes. Then there's the creative game design and I wholeheartly recommend a book called Theory of Fun by Raph Koster ([url]http://www.theoryoffun.com/[/url]). It's both entertaining to read and actually solid stuff. It emphasizes that the first priority of a video game for the player is for it to be [B]fun[/B], not graphically brilliant or techically amazing. And I don't get the negativity in this thread. People who think they know their stuff are telling off a person who apparently has geniuine interest in the industry and passion for games. And in this industry what you need is passion. You don't become a game developer if you don't have a passion for games just like you don't become a carpenter if you don't like wood. So good luck to you, you might even find some schools or courses that teach game design in your area or at least get some books. Gamasutra.com has some nice guides on how to write design documents and stuff as well, that's the kind of thing you need to know when entering the field.

[url]http://www.vfs.com/[/url]

I'll also recommend a Theory of Fun - if anything, for the cute cartoons on every other page :D There's also another book, whose author presently eludes me entitled 'The Game Producers Handbook', which is a reasonable overview for anyone who's not overly familiar with the inner workings and development process of a game development team. Essential knowledge for an effective designer. Edit: Not to stomp on the above poster, but Ex'pression is one of those 'for profit' colleges I'd [i]not[/i] recommend. It's practically a miniature version of Full-Sail. Also, the author of the above book was Dan Irish.

[QUOTE=ambershee;17723259]I'm assuming you're talking about the new BTech (or whatever it is?) in 'Game Design / Development'? I looked into taking a job teaching that at a private college early this year but was admittedly not very impressed by it's content (and more specifically, that particular colleges approach to teaching it). My major gripes with it was that a fairly significant portion of the course wasn't directly relevant (for example, in the first year, the students would do web design on a Mac), and that it had no direction what-so-ever; trying to get students to do a little bit of art, a little bit of programming and a little bit of audio, as well as some review and writing. The trouble with it was, it spent so much time trying to cover as many unimportant bases as possible, that it completely missed the point and never went into enough depth for a student to actually learn anything. Of course, I've only seen this as presented by this particular college - and the course leader there was entirely clueless and unqualified for the role; being a dialogue writer isn't enough experience to be leading a game development course. You'll have to let me know the specifics, and how you get on, because I'm genuinely curious to see how it's set up elsewhere. It's a perfectly fine qualification for the purposes of credit and applying to a university and such like (and looks reasonable on paper, no doubt), but I felt it needs focus.[/QUOTE] Web design? I'm pretty sure we're not going to be doing that! Other than that, I do agree that it isn't focused too much. It tries to do everything. That's why I said I view it as a kindof stepping stone to university (Or did I? I can't be bothered to find my post again atm) for when you find out where you want to be. Our current teacher is experienced in teaching the course, he came from a college nearby. The irrelevant part is just annoying, it barely applies to anything we really want to do. Learning about market research probably won't help us if we get a job in the games development industry, yet we need it for the course nonetheless. Our current units involve things like: Creating a story for a game. Market research (core unit D=) and hardware + software limitations.

Hardware / Software limitations sounds like a good call to me, especially if you're interested in things from a technical perspective. Good to know you're not doing the web design. That was one of the big things that irked me about the course I saw - just plain not useful and nothing to do with the course at all. If things go the right way, I'd hope for a little bit of programming, and a bit of 3d modelling (and perhaps playing with a level design package) to let you guys get a better feel for the sorts of doctrines you're more interested in. IMHO, they (the BTech organisers) really need to realise that the course needs two branches; one for the creatively inclined in an art and design direction, and one for the technically inclined in a computer science direction, because in reality, the two doctrines rarely mix.

Really the best simulation of a game company inside the schooling system would be to separate those two groups and have the producer students communicate between them. But I can sort of see a broad spectrum as a good thing as a designer has to know how programmers work, what kind of jobs do the artists do and so on. We had to do some webdesign as well but it was pretty much like "yeah here's how it works now let's get on with the games". My internship at a local game studio (that are aplenty here in Helsinki) starts next month so we've only got like 5 months to finish our graduation project while we're in work training.

Personally, I'm more inclined to say that those taking towards the 'designer' discipline should more likely arise specifically out of either the technical or artist background and fill that gap, rather than have someone trying to interface between disciplines they half understand. Group work between the two distinct factions is more than likely going to lead to someone stepping up and taking charge of that role - either that or you'll find that there are programmers who dabble in artwork / level design in their spare time, and artists who dabble in programming / level design in theirs.

[QUOTE=ambershee;17723259]If you call art / programming or whatever field you're in before reaching a top-level position 'shit times', you're in, and aiming for the wrong job. Top level design jobs are usually pretty technical and filled by an experienced games programmer with management experience.[/quote] I say they're the shit times mainly because it's the general foundation learning of the general aspects of the creation process. You need to have a basic understand of everything, and it can be tedious for someone who wants to do strictly game design. [quote]Mapping isn't necessarily something I'd stress as a necessary skill - not unless you're looking to specifically become a level designer. It's good to know, but there's an awful lot of extra theory and practice behind good level design, and that varies significantly from genre to genre. Knowing a level design tool is always good to know, but if you're aiming for a specifically technical or art orientated role, it's not all that useful, especially seeing as you'll probably end up working with different genres and different tools anyway[/QUOTE] It's not a necessary skill in the slightest, but it's the easiest thing to get into out of college. It's also a great tool for trial and error level design, and if you can create a map with really good level design with equal parts for all players/classes then you're more likely to be able to carry that over to another game. Good balance isn't game dependent. Still THE BEST thing you can do out of college, is to get a team of people together working under you and create a full fledged mod. It shows you're capable of leading a team and releasing a final product, and will be much more impressive than Jimmy's portfolio of 3D monsters.

I've never seen such a thing as 'strictly game design'. Top level game design is a software engineering orientated role, so you're probably going to be a programmer, not someone with a rudimentary understanding of this, that or the other. Also, a designer does not have to lead a team. I've worked on teams as a technical designer and not had anything to do with the management process at all. Teams that do not have their designer as their lead may find this alleviates a lot of stress from the design work load, and allows other team members more creative input into their own hobbyist projects. Balance IS game dependant, as is the ability to even be balanced. As a professional level designer, this is strictly rendered even harder. You don't actually [i]have[/i] the game in front of your face to map for, it's still in development. What you've got is a basic prototype, an editor, and a wad of documents coming from the designers filled with statistics that could change. Not all games even have 'distinct players/classes'. Try games that aren't a multiplayer FPS for a change. Even then, mapping for [i]Gears of War[/i] and [i]Unreal Tournament 3[/i] are two different kettles of fish; the editor might be the same, but not only do the core game mechanics differ too strongly, the movement metrics, weapon and object design and gameplay emphasis are entirely different. Good level design is certainly a learnable skill, but these days, professional level designers are also generally solid 3d artists, and it's becoming rarer to find junior level designers coming in without art experience.

[QUOTE=Clever-Balls;17692928]I'm not a kid.[/QUOTE] Yes you are. Being 18 doesnt make you adult

[QUOTE=PLing;17724560]It looks like the guys who think that they know what game designers do don't actually know that much themselves. Game designers rarely draw so that's definitely not a requirement. [B]The most important feature in a game designer is communication.[/B] He's the link between the artistic and programming people, describing in detail on how features work and communicating with AD and the concept artists to define the looks. While game design may look easy on paper, just sitting around and throwing ideas around, it's one of the most difficult jobs in the video game industry. You need to have a basic understanding on what's possible on the hardware, programming and art-wise. That's called technical game design. He fleshes out the game mechanics and features in the design documents. That's the backbone of the game, it's what all the people will rely on and reference to as the project goes. Then there's the creative game design and I wholeheartly recommend a book called Theory of Fun by Raph Koster ([url]http://www.theoryoffun.com/[/url]). It's both entertaining to read and actually solid stuff. It emphasizes that the first priority of a video game for the player is for it to be [B]fun[/B], not graphically brilliant or techically amazing. And I don't get the negativity in this thread. People who think they know their stuff are telling off a person who apparently has geniuine interest in the industry and passion for games. And in this industry what you need is passion. You don't become a game developer if you don't have a passion for games just like you don't become a carpenter if you don't like wood. So good luck to you, you might even find some schools or courses that teach game design in your area or at least get some books. Gamasutra.com has some nice guides on how to write design documents and stuff as well, that's the kind of thing you need to know when entering the field.[/QUOTE] Fuck yes, thanks for replying without thinking you are better then me. I agree, most of the people here think i want to make 'sucessful' games. That is [B]NOT[/B] the case. I was to make BRILLIANT games, that leave you thinking 'whoah, that was absolutely amazing'(Like Zelda: Ocarina of Time) that leave you wanting to know more about the universe the game was made in. "While game design may look easy on paper, just sitting around and throwing ideas around, it's one of the most difficult jobs in the video game industry. You need to have a basic understanding on what's possible on the hardware, programming and art-wise. That's called technical game design. He fleshes out the game mechanics and features in the design documents. That's the backbone of the game, it's what all the people will rely on and reference to as the project goes." I have good understanding in hardware and art. My programming could be better, but i have time! Thanks Pling for the quality post. [editline]07:37PM[/editline] [QUOTE=LoserMan255;17726879]Yes you are. Being 18 doesnt make you adult[/QUOTE] Being 18 also doesn't make me a kid. Now thanks for the relevant post, it really helped me out!

[QUOTE=ambershee;17726635]I've never seen such a thing as 'strictly game design'. Top level game design is a software engineering orientated role, so you're probably going to be a programmer, not someone with a rudimentary understanding of this, that or the other.[/QUOTE] Uhh, not it's not. You're only talking about technical design there. I know lead game designers that have no skills whatsoever in programming and they lead big teams in proper companies. [QUOTE=ambershee]Also, a designer does not have to lead a team. I've worked on teams as a technical designer and not had anything to do with the management process at all. Teams that do not have their designer as their lead may find this alleviates a lot of stress from the design work load, and allows other team members more creative input into their own hobbyist projects.[/QUOTE] No, he doesn't necessarily lead a team (unless in a big company where you have a lead designer and lots of game designers) but he does need communication. The real leader in a game project is of course the producer who is ultimately in charge of the production and only answers to the publishers. [QUOTE=ambershee]Balance IS game dependant, as is the ability to even be balanced. As a professional level designer, this is strictly rendered even harder. You don't actually [i]have[/i] the game in front of your face to map for, it's still in development. What you've got is a basic prototype, an editor, and a wad of documents coming from the designers filled with statistics that could change. Not all games even have 'distinct players/classes'. Try games that aren't a multiplayer FPS for a change. Even then, mapping for [i]Gears of War[/i] and [i]Unreal Tournament 3[/i] are two different kettles of fish; the editor might be the same, but not only do the core game mechanics differ too strongly, the movement metrics, weapon and object design and gameplay emphasis are entirely different. Good level design is certainly a learnable skill, but these days, professional level designers are also generally solid 3d artists, and it's becoming rarer to find junior level designers coming in without art experience.[/QUOTE] True, level designers sometimes double as environmental artists although in some bigger productions there are dedicated people who make the level work and other people who then come and make it look pretty. It will then be iterated more and more. Balance is something that might even not be entirely clear in the game's early stages and could be changed a lot after playtesting for example so it might require changes to the level as well.

Well, one thing you need a portfolio of whatever it is you do. If you model, put up a website with your models. If you're a concept artist, create some concept art and do what you did there. Do some stuff for some indie games or mods and get yourself noticed possibly or use said experience and portfolios on an application.

[QUOTE=PLing;17727563]Uhh, not it's not. You're only talking about technical design there. I know lead game designers that have no skills whatsoever in programming and they lead big teams in proper companies.[/quote] Top-level design [i]should[/i] be technical design. You don't start with an art direction and work an implementation around that; or at least, you really shouldn't, and if you are, you're missing the point somewhere along the lines. When you're talking about behaviour and game mechanics, then you're going to be talking in terms of processes and systems, which is firmly in the realm of [i]software engineering[/i]. When it comes to it, the people responsible for ensuring that you have the technology to do what is required, and ensure that the game behaves as expected are going to be the programmers, so you want to be generating documentation geared towards the design of the software first, and the aesthetic details second. If you're not a software engineer, then you're going to end up employing extra heads just to translate from an 'idea guy document' into a plausible, structured and implementable design. That's not to say that your lead game designer [i]has[/i] to specifically be a programmer, but it's going to make things so much easier for everyone. There's a reason why the vast majority of 'big name' game designers all come from a technical, not an art orientated background (Will Wright, Sid Meier, Chris Crawford, Shigeru Miyamoto, John Romero, Chris Sawyer, Tim Schafer and many more - all from technical backgrounds). Exceptions to the rule do exist, but one should note that more often than not, they refer to themselves and are credited as [i]Creative Directors[/i] or [i]Producers / Managers[/i], not as [i]Game Designers[/i], although still get lumped into the design team credits - case in example, your aforementioned Raph Koster.

I too want to get into the game industry. Developing specifically. Just read some moar.

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