Uh bunnyhopping is very much alive in quake, which is where it originated. See quake live and Quake 4, they both still have it and it's integral to the gameplay.
[editline]14th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=UnknownDude;27393758]I really hate the word "Skill" when you're talking about gaming.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty funny how so many people rated you agree. The majority of facepunch spend upwards of 5 hours on their computer a day, either browsing FP or playing games, yet as soon as somebody takes gaming seriously it becomes lame.
It's pretty hypocritical that most of you nerds would make such a discrimination, afterall I bet at least half of you are treated as sad / lame in the same way by your peers.
What's wrong with just letting people do what they do? Video games are bound to get more competetive and more serious over time, they are a part of almost everyones life now.
Anyone who shuns "skill" of gaming and professional gaming is being unneccessarily prejudice.
What is wrong with it afterall?
Okay so people say:
-bunny hopping gives an unfair advantage
I say:
-how is it unfair if every participant has access to it?
They say:
-not everyone is able to do it, it's pretty difficult
Now I ask you:
if an element in gameplay is:
a)purely a characteristic of the engine/inherent to the game, therefore accessible to anyone
b)requires skill (and if it doesn't, then it [U]certainly[/U] is not an advantage over other players)
then HOW is it any different from skills like aiming, tactics, or anything else that -if mastered- gives you a rightful advantage over other players.
Sure, it might not be what the developers intended, it might be annoying, but it's not an unfair advantage!
This whole argument is going nowhere, we haven't even defined the problem correctly...
wait people use bunnyhopping in combat?
wow
that's kind of a dick move
[QUOTE=DimJim;27408374]wait people use bunnyhopping in combat?
wow
that's kind of a dick move[/QUOTE]
where have you been the last 15 years
Quake 3. The most satisfying game to bunnyjump in EVER.
[QUOTE=defyant;27408417]where have you been the last 15 years[/QUOTE]
bunnyhopping for fun
IMO if you bhop during serious play you are an ass
people who do it are normally under 13 and are complete faggots "u kant even bhop" "i hav admin in my friend list enjoi ur ban"
[QUOTE=victormeriqui_2;27408919]people who do it are normally under 13 and are complete faggots "u kant even bhop" "i hav admin in my friend list enjoi ur ban"[/QUOTE]
u cant bhop lol ur nub i fuked ur mum
bunnyhopping always used to piss me off because it's not the way the games intended to be played.
[editline]14th January 2011[/editline]
kreedz was fun though and i suppose it was always cool to see some guy complete the map in like 5 minutes while it takes everyone else like 25.
ITT: people have an absolute and incontestable idea of how a game should be played
[QUOTE=Profanwolf;27405369]50 000 players, HAHA YEAH RIGHT[/QUOTE]
Xtreme-Jumps.eu has about 60,000 registered people.
[quote=Chirno]I know people, myself included, that can shit on you kids using mwheel.[/quote]
Come play Counter-Strike or Kreedz Climbing and play with spacebar then..
[quote=krail9]but trying this in a normal game like counterstrike is pretty retarded[/quote]
That's part of the fun in it, it's crazy to see what people can accomplish with Counter-Strike physics.
[quote=Sgt Doom]Why the hell is that twat in the first video shaking his view around like that?[/quote]
It's called a strafe, bud. If you don't know what it is there's no reason to go shitting all over it.
Technically speaking, a strafe is a way to accelerate your speed past the normal engine clamping. Normal speed is 250 u/s, but with multiple strafes you can carry that up to around 275-300 u/s. This is essential for bunnyhopping as you can carry your speed and go faster than walking.
To perform a strafe, you jump, hit left or right, let go of W and turn your mouse in the corresponding direction.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-rSygUEgag[/media]
[QUOTE=Jallen;27407707]Uh bunnyhopping is very much alive in quake, which is where it originated. See quake live and Quake 4, they both still have it and it's integral to the gameplay.
[editline]14th January 2011[/editline]
It's pretty funny how so many people rated you agree. The majority of facepunch spend upwards of 5 hours on their computer a day, either browsing FP or playing games, yet as soon as somebody takes gaming seriously it becomes lame.
It's pretty hypocritical that most of you nerds would make such a discrimination, afterall I bet at least half of you are treated as sad / lame in the same way by your peers.
What's wrong with just letting people do what they do? Video games are bound to get more competetive and more serious over time, they are a part of almost everyones life now.
Anyone who shuns "skill" of gaming and professional gaming is being unneccessarily prejudice.
What is wrong with it afterall?[/QUOTE]
Because that shit fuckface definition clashes with real skill at the game. Say you've gotten fairly good at the gameplay, then some moron comes along breaks the rules and calls you a noob.
A glitch is a glitch, it may be difficult to do, but it's still a fucking cheat that breaks the game.
[editline]14th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Number-41;27408057]Okay so people say:
-bunny hopping gives an unfair advantage
I say:
-how is it unfair if every participant has access to it?
They say:
-not everyone is able to do it, it's pretty difficult
Now I ask you:
if an element in gameplay is:
a)purely a characteristic of the engine/inherent to the game, therefore accessible to anyone
b)requires skill (and if it doesn't, then it [U]certainly[/U] is not an advantage over other players)
then HOW is it any different from skills like aiming, tactics, or anything else that -if mastered- gives you a rightful advantage over other players.
Sure, it might not be what the developers intended, it might be annoying, but it's not an unfair advantage!
This whole argument is going nowhere, we haven't even defined the problem correctly...[/QUOTE]
See above, it breaks the carefully constructed balance and flow of the gameplay and subverts actual skill at the game.
[QUOTE=BmB;27409547]Because that shit fuckface definition clashes with real skill at the game. Say you've gotten fairly good at the gameplay, then some moron comes along breaks the rules and calls you a noob.
A glitch is a glitch, it may be difficult to do, but it's still a fucking cheat that breaks the game.[/QUOTE]
Quake left in bunnyhopping on purpose. They even have tutorials in Quake Live that cover how to perform bunnyhopping and strafing. In their universe, it isn't cheating, it just sounds like you've had some bad experience with bunnyhoppers.
Glitches as gameplay mechanics can fuck the hell off.
bunny hopping shall die and i will dance in it's grave
Try bunny hopping in real life
Every game wants to be 'realistic' nowadays.
There's a difference between realism and making sense.
[QUOTE=BmB;27409778]There's a difference between realism and making sense.[/QUOTE]
That's the thing - games don't [b]have[/b] to make sense. Games, to me, are all about doing what you can't do in real life. Same for you, isn't it?
Oh, and, a glitch can't be a gameplay mechanic. A gameplay mechanic is something intentionally put into the game by the developers. If they intentionally keep bunnyhopping in the game, whether they [i]made it[/i] intentionally or not, is out of the question. It's no longer a glitch at that point.
Really, it just sounds like you've had bad experience with it in the past. There's people that loathe bunnyhopping because a few pricks decided to use it to gain an advantage in deathmatch. That's not cool. I prefer to use it in singleplayer and use it on jump maps. Jump maps are my favorite 'game' to play, honestly.
[QUOTE=BENJA5;27409876]That's the thing - games don't [b]have[/b] to make sense. Games, to me, are all about doing what you can't do in real life. Same for you, isn't it?
Oh, and, a glitch can't be a gameplay mechanic. A gameplay mechanic is something intentionally put into the game by the developers. If they intentionally keep bunnyhopping in the game, whether they [i]made it[/i] intentionally or not, is out of the question. It's no longer a glitch at that point.
Really, it just sounds like you've had bad experience with it in the past. There's people that loathe bunnyhopping because a few pricks decided to use it to gain an advantage in deathmatch. That's not cool. I prefer to use it in singleplayer and use it on jump maps. Jump maps are my favorite 'game' to play, honestly.[/QUOTE]
It is a glitch in source games. :v:
Games absolutely have to make sense. This is not the same as being constrained to only things you can do in real life.
Take invisible walls for example, they're annoying pieces of shit that don't make sense, you don't bump into invisible walls in real life either.
Then take respawning in UT, that's not realistic in any way either. But it makes sense, it creates a context for the game and the mechanic that can be understood easily and thought about intuitively and creatively.
Poorly coded movement logic isn't quite that. It'd take more than simply "including" a bug to make it fun. I think rocket jumping in TF2 is a much better example here. Not quite perfect, but taking a shitty glitch and integrating it into the game proper in a way that makes a minimum of sense.
It took until page 4, but the rational people have finally arrived. I was getting a bit worried
[QUOTE=BmB;27409972]Poorly coded movement logic isn't quite that. It'd take more than simply "including" a bug to make it fun.[/QUOTE]
Take Gunz The Duel for example:
Excellent movement system allowing for incredible freedom. Running up walls, dodging and blocking bullets, very fast movement, etc... This was built into the game.
Then "K-Style" started becoming popular. It uses a series of bugs to do things simply impossible in the normal game, and was quickly accepted as standard gameplay by the elites. Now if you don't want to be a noob you must K-Style. Once K-Style became popular it actually killed off a large part of the game's population, who simply had no interest investing time in learning how to K-Style. The elitists killed the game. This was the same problem with Quake and bunnyhopping: the elitists found new depth in the game at the cost of the majority of the community.
Now an example of doing it right: Starsiege Tribes was a fucking excellent game, one of the rare few to make jetpacks standard issue allowing for true 3 dimensional fighting. It was nuts. Then "skiing" came along. Skiing was a bug that actually got accepted as part of legitimate gameplay. Unlike bunnyhopping, skiing is actually quite simple to understand and do. You literally jump down a mountain to build speed and carry that momentum up the side of another mountain. It was so easy and fun that they actually built it into the later Tribes games. Emergent gameplay that doesn't suck. Yes, it does happen.
unnecessarily esoteric gameplay mechanics are almost always terrible and dont belong anywhere
[QUOTE=Number-41;27408057]Okay so people say:
-bunny hopping gives an unfair advantage
I say:
-how is it unfair if every participant has access to it?
They say:
-not everyone is able to do it, it's pretty difficult
Now I ask you:
if an element in gameplay is:
a)purely a characteristic of the engine/inherent to the game, therefore accessible to anyone
b)requires skill (and if it doesn't, then it [U]certainly[/U] is not an advantage over other players)
then HOW is it any different from skills like aiming, tactics, or anything else that -if mastered- gives you a rightful advantage over other players.
Sure, it might not be what the developers intended, it might be annoying, but it's not an unfair advantage!
This whole argument is going nowhere, we haven't even defined the problem correctly...[/QUOTE]
Why is this post being ignored let alone rated dumb
Because people don't want to be forced to cheat to stay competitive mayhap?
Perhaps they want to just play the damn game.
[QUOTE=BmB;27410343]Because people don't want to be forced to cheat to stay competitive mayhap?
Perhaps they want to just play the damn game.[/QUOTE]
If it's in the game, I'll use it to my advantage.
If they make it an integral part of the gameplay like in quake live, I will definitely use it.
[QUOTE=BENJA5;27409576]Quake left in bunnyhopping on purpose. They even have tutorials in Quake Live that cover how to perform bunnyhopping and strafing. In their universe, it isn't cheating, it just sounds like you've had some bad experience with bunnyhoppers.[/QUOTE]
Quake is the kind of game bunnyhopping is mostly okay in, because it is part of the games history. Games like CS/ CS: S and the likes, where bunnyhopping is a true engine exploit (the fact Valve patched it out kind of shows it is a exploit) it is a pain in the ass for people who want to play a normal game on it, in those circumstances it is not a skill, it is a exploit. But in the game modes designed around it, yes it is a skill.
[QUOTE=Jallen;27410425]If it's in the game, I'll use it to my advantage.
If they make it an integral part of the gameplay like in quake live, I will definitely use it.[/QUOTE]
Right, that doesn't justify using it in other games like I mentioned above. If the game does show you how to perform it (terribly, Quake Live barely explains it) then yes, go ahead, but it still makes you a dick if you do it against players you know aren't too great.
I liked all the unintended features in Jedi Academy. The competitive players played entirely differently compared to the standard population.
There were bugs to pause your character's animations, to reset them, or to execute other animations mid-swing for example. Since the animations were somehow integrated with the combat system, as long as your swing hadn't completed execution, it kept dealing damage.
The standard combos became pretty much obsolete because your lightsaber turned with the camera, so with some skills you could essentially control just how the saber proceeded through your enemies' bodies.
Then there was bunnyhopping. CTF was great because as the flag carrier it was entirely up to your running skills whether you'd get away or get chased down and killed.
All the unintended mechanics kept the game alive and interesting. Had it been polished, it would've been only a mediocre game.
Bunnyhopping has become less and less popular because it requires a ton of practice. Like what's already been said in this thread, you will get dominated in Quake-like games unless you've mastered the bunnyhop. This is incredibly unforgiving to new players, and considering that video game companies are wanting to appeal to a broad audience(which means a ton of new gamers), they had to find other ways to incorporate skill into their games.
OP, what exactly do you mean by "movement based gameplay" as a genre? Wouldn't Mirror's Edge, the game you somewhat criticize, fall into that category?
To comment about people saying these types of games are unrealistic: it's entirely possible to create retail games where people just hop around going ~70 MPH. Monday Night Combat is a good example of something wacky being put in an actual environment.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;27410908]Quake is the kind of game bunnyhopping is mostly okay in, because it is part of the games history. Games like CS/ CS: S and the likes, where bunnyhopping is a true engine exploit (the fact Valve patched it out kind of shows it is a exploit) it is a pain in the ass for people who want to play a normal game on it, in those circumstances it is not a skill, it is a exploit. But in the game modes designed around it, yes it is a skill.
Right, that doesn't justify using it in other games like I mentioned above. If the game does show you how to perform it (terribly, Quake Live barely explains it) then yes, go ahead, [B]but it still makes you a dick if you do it against players you know aren't too great.[/B][/QUOTE]
No, because as previously stated it's just a skill like aiming. It's irrelevant that it's not an intended part of the gameplay. If it's not intended they should patch it or gamers should live with it.
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